I Want Kyle O'Quinn in Green

[DefenseWinsChamps]

O'Quinn is a really (really) poor man's Demarcus Cousins.

If he could stay out of foul trouble, he is a rich man's Sullinger.

6'10'' and a solid 250 pounds. Almost a 7'5'' wingspan.

He averages 16 points, 13 rebounds, and 4 assists per 40 minutes.

He is a good shooter. From 15-19 ft, he averages 44%. Last year, he showed even more range, shooting 44% from 20-24ft. I think he could be a three point shooter with more work. He averages 21% for his career.

He has a variety of post moves, drop steps, and runners to score around the bucket.

His defense at the rim this year is a respectable 50%, and was 49% last year. He is a decent rim protector. But he also gets steals and blocks at a good rate for his playing time.

Again, the biggest problem with his development has been foul trouble. He averages 7.5 fouls per 48 minutes. This is still better than players like Nene, Dedmon, Ajinca, Zeller, and Payne, but it is a problem.

He is 25 years old and is on a 4 year, approximately 4 million dollars a year contract.

He seems to be to be a prime example of a Paul Milsap, Demarre Carroll, Jae Crowder-type player who could take a huge leap with improvements (for him, improvements in fouling).

O'Quinn is a gritty competitor too. He would fit right in with Smart and Crowder as a tough-nosed, unselfish, skilled player.

I would love to see O'Quinn in a Celtics uniform. I wonder if the Knicks would consider Turner plus the Sixers 2nd round pick for O'Quinn. In fact, I'd probably be willing to offer the Dallas Pick for him.

Edit: His per 40 stats are stats I've been watching for a few years, including his time in Orlando. He has put up these per 40 stats consistently over that time period.

[coffee425]

I would not, simply because I'm no longer interested in more Bigs that will clog the bench.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

I would not, simply because I'm no longer interested in more Bigs that will clog the bench.

It'd be nice to do a massive 3 for 1 or 4 for 1 and clean up the bench more. I'm kinda' assuming that Lee will be gone and that O'Quinn replaces Sully.

[PhoSita]

Kyle O'Quinn is not an upgrade over any of the bigs we already have -- some of them not even in the rotation.

He's a fine enough player, and a team that needs a productive backup could use him.  The Celts aren't in need of a productive backup.

[Eddie20]

No, he's actually not. He's an average, at best, NBA player.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Kyle O'Quinn is not an upgrade over any of the bigs we already have -- some of them not even in the rotation.

He's a fine enough player, and a team that needs a productive backup could use him.  The Celts aren't in need of a productive backup.

I disagree. O'Quinn provides similar numbers, on less minutes, with better efficiency, than Sully and he is a better all-around player than Zeller. I think his upside is higher because of his size and production.

On top of that, he is locked in to a 4 year contract, which is essentially a rookie contract. His PER is 18, which is higher than all of our big guys.

What is your reasoning that he is not an upgrade over any of our bigs?

[ThePoeticWolf]

O'Quinn is a really (really) poor man's Demarcus Cousins.

If he could stay out of foul trouble, he is a rich man's Sullinger.

6'10'' and a solid 250 pounds. Almost a 7'5'' wingspan.

He averages 16 points, 13 rebounds, and 4 assists per 40 minutes.

He is a good shooter. From 15-19 ft, he averages 44%. Last year, he showed even more range, shooting 44% from 20-24ft. I think he could be a three point shooter with more work. He averages 21% for his career.

He has a variety of post moves, drop steps, and runners to score around the bucket.

His defense at the rim this year is a respectable 50%, and was 49% last year. He is a decent rim protector. But he also gets steals and blocks at a good rate for his playing time.

Again, the biggest problem with his development has been foul trouble. He averages 7.5 fouls per 48 minutes. This is still better than players like Nene, Dedmon, Ajinca, Zeller, and Payne, but it is a problem.

He is 25 years old and is on a 4 year, approximately 4 million dollars a year contract.

He seems to be to be a prime example of a Paul Milsap, Demarre Carroll, Jae Crowder-type player who could take a huge leap with improvements (for him, improvements in fouling).

O'Quinn is a gritty competitor too. He would fit right in with Smart and Crowder as a tough-nosed, unselfish, skilled player.

I would love to see O'Quinn in a Celtics uniform. I wonder if the Knicks would consider Turner plus the Sixers 2nd round pick for O'Quinn. In fact, I'd probably be willing to offer the Dallas Pick for him.

Edit: His per 40 stats are stats I've been watching for a few years, including his time in Orlando. He has put up these per 40 stats consistently over that time period.

So you want to trade for a guy who's never averages more then 18 minutes a game in a season?

Who's never had an average above 5.4 attempts shooting in a game and making 2.7 of those attempts?  By the way I'm guessing being a 6'10 center/power forward is on average between 0-6 feet from the basket.  I'm pretty sure you could hit more then 50% from 6 feet or less from the basket. 

Best average in rebounds is 5.3 in a year.

Never averages above 6.2 points in a year.

By the way his best year was 2013-14 where these stats came from.  Since then all lower. 

I'm all set with this player, we have players that are the same and better.  Give me KO and Sully all day over this guy.  Both with 10x higher ceilings and are not foul trouble guys.

[PhoSita]

What is your reasoning that he is not an upgrade over any of our bigs?

He's averaging 12 minutes a game for the Knicks (and more recently, lots of DNP-CDs), let's start there.

He couldn't nail down a significant role on the Magic, either, despite that team's need for capable defensive minded bigs worthy of more than 10-15 minutes a game.

He's 6'10'', not especially athletic, not especially dominant on the boards, doesn't have a particularly great jumpshot, isn't a notable shot-blocker, isn't a great passer.

Like I said, I think he's a fine player.  That's all he is, though.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

The Poetic Wolf - The idea behind a trade like this is not getting a proven star, but buying-low on a skilled, athletic, gritty big man who has a 18 PER (better than all of our players) and has produced well in a lesser role. The only reason we can buy low on a guy like this is because he has never put up big numbers in big minutes, but good numbers in small minutes.

I think he could be a big man version of Jae Crowder, who, under a good coach and in a good system, blossoms as a player.

We need to consolidate our players and draft picks. Why not buy low on a guy like this using multiple 2nd rounders or a first rounder (the Knicks need draft picks, especially next year)?

[coffee425]

Kyle O'Quinn is another prime example of how advanced stats actually overvalues a player. (See Brandan Wright).

I'd probably do it if NYK just wants to take Lee's contract. But there's nothing to benefit from a Zeller trade. It might just cost us more in admin fees. And definitely a no to giving up any picks straight up for him. I'd take my chances with rookies.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

What is your reasoning that he is not an upgrade over any of our bigs?

He's averaging 12 minutes a game for the Knicks (and more recently, lots of DNP-CDs), let's start there.

He couldn't nail down a significant role on the Magic, either, despite that team's need for capable defensive minded bigs worthy of more than 10-15 minutes a game.

He's 6'10'', not especially athletic, not especially dominant on the boards, doesn't have a particularly great jumpshot, isn't a notable shot-blocker, isn't a great passer.

Like I said, I think he's a fine player.  That's all he is, though.

Everything you just said could have been said of Crowder last year. Not terribly athletic. Not a  great shooter. Not a great creator. Decent defender.

He is a good athlete- his is very strong and pretty agile for a big. He is pretty good on the boards actually. He has a better mid-range jumpshot than Sully according to the stats from this year and last year. He is a decent rim protector, even if he doesn't get a lot of blocks. He is actually a pretty good passer if you watch him play, averaging 4 assists per 40 this year and hovering around 3 assists per 40 in his first few years.

As far as minutes, there are a lot of good explanations for that. 1) His coach in Orlando was Vaugn (sp?), one of the worst coaches in the NBA. 2) He is buried behind Lopez, a blossoming star in Zinger, and Melo (who is best as a small ball four). 3) He is still struggling with foul trouble. 4) He fits better in an open system than the triangle because of his pick-and-roll game.

[chilidawg]

The Poetic Wolf - The idea behind a trade like this is not getting a proven star, but buying-low on a skilled, athletic, gritty big man who has a 18 PER (better than all of our players) and has produced well in a lesser role. The only reason we can buy low on a guy like this is because he has never put up big numbers in big minutes, but good numbers in small minutes.

I think he could be a big man version of Jae Crowder, who, under a good coach and in a good system, blossoms as a player.

We need to consolidate our players and draft picks. Why not buy low on a guy like this using multiple 2nd rounders or a first rounder (the Knicks need draft picks, especially next year)?

PER is a terrible stat, especially for big men.  His RPM is a very average .64, well behind KO, Sully, and Amir.  It's possible he's better than Zeller, but it's hard to tell with either because neither is getting minutes. 

As others have pointed out, improving the quality of our 5th big man is hardly what we need to be doing.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Kyle O'Quinn is another prime example of how advanced stats actually overvalues a player. (See Brandan Wright).

I'd probably do it if NYK just wants to take Lee's contract. But there's nothing to benefit from a Zeller trade. It might just cost us more in admin fees. And definitely a no to giving up any picks straight up for him. I'd take my chances with rookies.

Or O'Quinn is a prime example of how advanced stats can point to future success. Sometimes advanced stats overvalues a player, like Brandon Wright, and sometimes it shows a player is improving and could succeed in a larger role, like Milsap.

[PhoSita]

DWC -- I like where your thought process is at with this idea.  Trying to find underappreciated players on the right side of 25 who could flourish given the chance at a larger role, much as Crowder has flourished.

I disagree that Kyle O'Quinn is that kind of guy, because I think he's been given opportunities at a larger role that Crowder didn't get before he came to the Celts, but I approve of the basic premise.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

DWC -- I like where your thought process is at with this idea.  Trying to find underappreciated players on the right side of 25 who could flourish given the chance at a larger role, much as Crowder has flourished.

I disagree that Kyle O'Quinn is that kind of guy, because I think he's been given opportunities at a larger role that Crowder didn't get before he came to the Celts, but I approve of the basic premise.

Thanks for seeing where I am coming from. I like O'Quinn and have for a few years.

Do you have any players like this that you are keeping an eye on?