Celtics (22-19) at Mavericks (23-19) Game #42 1/17/16

[alldaboston]

Oh, and I just watched the end of the game again. Zaza double-dribbled. He caught the pass, threw an errant pass, went and picked it up, and dribbled. That's a double-dribble violation. We should've had another possession with over a second left on the clock.

yeah thats what scal was saying, but was it a pass? honestly, in my opinion it seemed to me like he just dropped the ball, and then picked it up. thats allowed, right?

[jpotter33]

Oh, and I just watched the end of the game again. Zaza double-dribbled. He caught the pass, threw an errant pass, went and picked it up, and dribbled. That's a double-dribble violation. We should've had another possession with over a second left on the clock.

yeah thats what scal was saying, but was it a pass? honestly, in my opinion it seemed to me like he just dropped the ball, and then picked it up. thats allowed, right?

Nope. It'd be the same as a pass. You can't just drop the ball, pick it up, and start dribbling again. That's a double-dribble. Someone would have to knock it out of your hands for it not to be a violation.

[alldaboston]

Oh, and I just watched the end of the game again. Zaza double-dribbled. He caught the pass, threw an errant pass, went and picked it up, and dribbled. That's a double-dribble violation. We should've had another possession with over a second left on the clock.

yeah thats what scal was saying, but was it a pass? honestly, in my opinion it seemed to me like he just dropped the ball, and then picked it up. thats allowed, right?

Nope. It'd be the same as a pass. You can't just drop the ball, pick it up, and start dribbling again. That's a double-dribble. Someone would have to knock it out of your hands for it not to be a violation.

oh yeah lol. my bad. brain fart.

i guess the only way they did make the right call is if marcus deflected the ball.

[konkmv]

You cannot allow a 40+ player score 30+ points

[Celtics4ever]

Our starting bigs were exposed by Dallas, Zaza looked all world vs. Sully and bullied him.  3-12 from the field, his 11 rebounds look great until you realize that Zaza had 19.

We need a trade for a decent big bad.  KO played well, but he won't next game.   Sully and KO are pretty inconsistent, they have good game then have a  bad.  At least they consistently inconsistent, I suppose.

[Sketch5]

You cannot allow a 40+ player score 30+ points

Well when its Dirk I wouldn't complain too much. He's a shooter who doesn't use athleticism to get his shots off. And he had it going too.

The biggest problem is that we have IT and Bradley. They picked on that a ton. It's like and average size man shooting over a 10 year old. I get people are in love with Bradely, but if we are going to roll with  IT as the pg, we need a bigger SG to compensate for that. At least Smart could muscle Dirk a little at times when he was out there.

And double teams didn't work, Dirks tall enough to pass over every one on our team, and Sully and KO are just too slow show and get back most times.

Biggest issue last night was Williams had it going in the overtime. Three 3's that were very well contested and he just knocked them down. And Dirks was the same. Dallas earned that win, Boston played them tough, but we just don't have the right personal to handle them.

[chilidawg]

You cannot allow a 40+ player score 30+ points

Well when its Dirk I wouldn't complain too much. He's a shooter who doesn't use athleticism to get his shots off. And he had it going too.

The biggest problem is that we have IT and Bradley. They picked on that a ton. It's like and average size man shooting over a 10 year old. I get people are in love with Bradely, but if we are going to roll with  IT as the pg, we need a bigger SG to compensate for that. At least Smart could muscle Dirk a little at times when he was out there.

And double teams didn't work, Dirks tall enough to pass over every one on our team, and Sully and KO are just too slow show and get back most times.

Biggest issue last night was Williams had it going in the overtime. Three 3's that were very well contested and he just knocked them down. And Dirks was the same. Dallas earned that win, Boston played them tough, but we just don't have the right personal to handle them.

That's just silly.  We  just took them to OT on the road, where they went unconscious from 3 in the OT.  One or two plays the other way and we win.  We certainly have the personnel to beat them.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Our starting bigs were exposed by Dallas, Zaza looked all world vs. Sully and bullied him.  3-12 from the field, his 11 rebounds look great until you realize that Zaza had 19.

We need a trade for a decent big bad.  KO played well, but he won't next game.   Sully and KO are pretty inconsistent, they have good game then have a  bad.  At least they consistently inconsistent, I suppose.

Pachulia has been incredibly underrated this year, he's having a very strong season. Sully didn't have a particularly good game, but don't disparage Pachulia. I really like him as a player.

Also, worth pointing out that Pachulia IS an incredible rebounder, he's 6th in the league currently in rebounding efficiency. Also worth pointing out that we played small throughout pretty much the whole game. Also worth pointing out that we were often using our bigs to double other Mavs players... in all a perfect hurricane for Pachulia, an already incredible rebounder, to have a great night at it (particularly on the offensive end as far as rebounding goes... he was 1-4 from the field).

Sullinger had a bad night, but his second half was leagues better than how the night began for him, which was pretty bad. I think he tried to post up to much tonight against Pachulia and that was a mistake (not a good game to actually start doing that). But it is what it is.

Olynyk had an awesome game, I'd love to point out some key negative moments, but honestly not worth it. He was the reason we got back into the game and he shot the ball spectacularly. For all the pointing out our bigs being exposed, particularly Olynyk and Sullinger, when they got together last night they cut a 16-point Dallas lead into a 5-point lead in a matter of 5 minutes.

I know it's easy to point to our bigs, but it was our perimeter defense that was really the deciding factor in all of this. They couldn't contain Dallas' 3-point shooting and everyone was being post-upped making our bigs constantly help them with double teams. That was the key difference.

Crowder didn't have a particularly good night either, 3-13, maybe he got exposed as well.

[manl_lui]

a few things

1. the sample size of Smart's post game is really starting to stack up, he had another post game yesterday and resulted in scoring. Maybe we should incorporate that a little bit more, and I hope this performance by Smart isn't a Rondo effect, you know, when people are there to watch you

2. does it anger ANYONE that Deron Williams is playing this well with the Mavs when he basically bailed on the Nets, anyone find that kind of disturbing?

3. Kelly needs to start

[straightouttabahstun]

a few things

1. the sample size of Smart's post game is really starting to stack up, he had another post game yesterday and resulted in scoring. Maybe we should incorporate that a little bit more, and I hope this performance by Smart isn't a Rondo effect, you know, when people are there to watch you

2. does it anger ANYONE that Deron Williams is playing this well with the Mavs when he basically bailed on the Nets, anyone find that kind of disturbing?

3. Kelly needs to start

PP said something about Deron not taking too well to the New York lifestyle. I think Deron himself said something similar recently. He likes the smaller market teams like Dallas. It's also his hometown, so he's probably happier playing there.

[Celtics4ever]

I know it's easy to point to our bigs, but it was our perimeter defense that was really the deciding factor in all of this. They couldn't contain Dallas' 3-point shooting and everyone was being post-upped making our bigs constantly help them with double teams. That was the key difference.

Our starting bigs were outplayed too, why make excuses for them?   It won't help them.

Their starting front court scored 52 ours 27.   We lost the battle on the boards between starters 20-35.  It was more than perimeter D, sorry.

[BudweiserCeltic]

I know it's easy to point to our bigs, but it was our perimeter defense that was really the deciding factor in all of this. They couldn't contain Dallas' 3-point shooting and everyone was being post-upped making our bigs constantly help them with double teams. That was the key difference.

Our starting bigs were outplayed too, why make excuses for them?   It won't help them.

Their starting front court scored 52 ours 27.   We lost the battle on the boards between starters 20-35.  It was more than perimeter D, sorry.

I didn't make excuse for them, I did say they played bad. But you focused on Olynyk and Sullinger (who were quite good when they were on the floor together), and I also used actual facts of the game to account for the reason why Pachulia was so effective on the boards (in addition to his already proficiency at it). If you don't care for the details or the reasons of why certain things play out a certain way, then you're not willing to learn about what works and what doesn't work of the floor dynamic and our rotations.

For all the abusing Pachulia did, Dallas was only +2 in rebounds for the game.

Dallas shot 47% from 3s. It was their posting up of our guards which forced us to double team them throughout the rest of the game. Those are actual facts of what occurred in the game.

We had a very poor start, we were terrible, all 5 of our starters were horrible to begin the game... but what remained after that, even when we made our runs, was our lack of capability to guard their perimeter players effectively and what remained true was that we went small (because it worked) and were doubling on everything pretty much, our bigs (Sullinger and Olynyk) usually the ones with multiple assignments on the defensive end.

If you want to take that to mean excuses, so be it.

[Quetzalcoatl]

a few things

2. does it anger ANYONE that Deron Williams is playing this well with the Mavs when he basically bailed on the Nets, anyone find that kind of disturbing?

Nope!   

[jpotter33]

http://www.celticslife.com/2016/01/nba-says-referees-missed-2-calls-down.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Just wanted to point out that the NBA admitted that the refs missed two calls, which is wildly conservative, last night in the final minutes of the game and overtime, both of which went against the Celtics. One of those calls was the very last play where Pachulia threw the ball to himself, and we should've got another possession with 2.5 seconds left on the clock on our end of the floor. That's pretty [dang] substantial and obvious for a missed call. That could've very well meant the game and no overtime.

This is exactly why there should be coach's challenges or at least a way to make up these crucial blunders of incompetent refs. Also, if players and coaches are fined when talking about these issues, even when they're totally in the right, there should be more accountability held on these officials that affect the outcome of games due to their incompetence, e.g. public fines or suspensions.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

I know it's easy to point to our bigs, but it was our perimeter defense that was really the deciding factor in all of this. They couldn't contain Dallas' 3-point shooting and everyone was being post-upped making our bigs constantly help them with double teams. That was the key difference.

Our starting bigs were outplayed too, why make excuses for them?   It won't help them.

Their starting front court scored 52 ours 27.   We lost the battle on the boards between starters 20-35.  It was more than perimeter D, sorry.

I didn't make excuse for them, I did say they played bad. But you focused on Olynyk and Sullinger (who were quite good when they were on the floor together), and I also used actual facts of the game to account for the reason why Pachulia was so effective on the boards (in addition to his already proficiency at it). If you don't care for the details or the reasons of why certain things play out a certain way, then you're not willing to learn about what works and what doesn't work of the floor dynamic and our rotations.

For all the abusing Pachulia did, Dallas was only +2 in rebounds for the game.

Dallas shot 47% from 3s. It was their posting up of our guards which forced us to double team them throughout the rest of the game. Those are actual facts of what occurred in the game.

We had a very poor start, we were terrible, all 5 of our starters were horrible to begin the game... but what remained after that, even when we made our runs, was our lack of capability to guard their perimeter players effectively and what remained true was that we went small (because it worked) and were doubling on everything pretty much, our bigs (Sullinger and Olynyk) usually the ones with multiple assignments on the defensive end.

If you want to take that to mean excuses, so be it.

Our perimeter D was poor b/c Carlisle took advantage of IT4, it caused everyone else to help him and it broke down everyone else. If everyone had to make sure and help IT4, who does it leave to help someone else? If Dallas didn't do it's job and had all of their main guys hitting the shots then we would have been fine, credit them.

Our guards went ham on rebounding so that was why the boards were close. We didn't shoot that bad from deep either, we shot 40% for the game even after AB missed the last 2 with seconds left. All of our starting perimeter players scored in dbl figures and so did Smart (AB,Smart, IT4 at least 19pts). I mean, we didn't defend them well but it's not as if our perimeter players didn't abuse them as well.

Let's look at it:

Celts
AB 19pts/8rbs/5asts/1stl and no t/o
IT4 20pts/7asts/4rbs only 2 t/o
Jae 12pts/7rb/ast/stl no t/o
Smart 20pts/8rbs/3asts/2stls only 1 t/o
ET 4pts/8asts/3rbs/stl and 3 t/o
Reb "sf" 6pts/rb and no t/o

Mavs
Wes M. 15pts (all in first half then we put AB on him and he was shut out)/2asts/2rbs and 2 t/o
Parsons 16pts/5rbs/3asts/stl and no t/o
DWill 20pts/6asts/5rbs/blk and 3 t/o
Devon 9pts/2asts/rb and no t/o
Felton 14pts/4asts/3rbs and 1 t/o
Barea 4pts/3asts/rb and 2 t/o

Celts vs. Mavs perimeter summary
81-78pts Celts
31-17rbs Celts
24-20asts Celts
5-1stls Celts
6-8 t/o Celts


All that is to say our guards beat theirs in every category and dominated in a few!

You guys are right, we didn't defend them well but what does it say about their perimeter defense when our guards/sf beat them like that?

I know Dirk shot 3s but he did so as the PF, it doesn't count. We had to put Jae on him which was a bad idea b/c Amir had him clamped and Dirk proceeded to abuse Jae as if he wasn't out there.