Author Topic: Help Fix Smart's Offensive Game  (Read 14859 times)

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Re: Help Fix Smart's Offensive Game
« Reply #45 on: January 14, 2016, 07:10:53 PM »

Offline mctyson

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All he needs to do is practice shooting more. 

Don't leave the gym without making 500 shots from the left side of the floor, 500 from the right side, and 500 free throws.

Only way he'll get better. Put him on the Ray Allen cycle. He's got the mentality to do it, too.
He should be compared to Kidd, not Allen. Kid shows that it is possible to develop a very narrow efficiency from deep, even if you never become a generally good shooter.

The problem is that Smart has no where near Kidd's talent to bridge his career until he gets to that point. Kidd's elite passing made him excellent on offense, even without the ability to shoot. Like Smart, Kidd was also considered an excellent defender.

Jason Kidd was more of a natural playmaker/PG, but he was a horrendous shooter for much of his career.  Marcus has a better looking shot than he had.

I have no doubt Smart will develop into a capable scorer.  HE IS ONLY 21!!!

Re: Help Fix Smart's Offensive Game
« Reply #46 on: January 14, 2016, 07:15:39 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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Stop shying away from contact and get to the line. Start from there.

Re: Help Fix Smart's Offensive Game
« Reply #47 on: January 14, 2016, 07:41:50 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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My goodness gracious.  Those have to be some of be some of the worse offenisve numbers I have ever seen.  Downright disrespectful of the game.

Marcus' problem won't be fixed with advice.  His issue is he has below average basketball skills in facets of offensive basketball.  That isn't going to be fixed with a talking.  That isn't even going to be fixed with hard work.  Mostly that will not change regardless of what he does.

Disrespectful? Smart has a great work ethic, he'll get better with time.
Here is another supposed truth with no real substance behind it.  Who says smart is an especially hard worker; harder than the average player?  Easy to say.  Whether true or not who the heck knows.
Google Marcus Smart hard work. There are pages and pages of articles with beat writers saying Marcus Smart is a hard worker.

Here is a quote from Stevens himself
Quote
"I see the daily work that he puts in, so he’s getting better,” Stevens said Tuesday night before the Celtics’ open practice for season ticket holders at TD Garden.

Here is a quote from Danny Ainge
Quote
“You’ve got to put in the time and the work, and Marcus is putting in the work,” Celtics president of basketball operations Danny Ainge said.

Here is a quote from James Harden
Quote
“Good hands. Good feet. Starting to shoot the ball a lot better. He’s getting a lot better. I’m sure he works extremely hard. I saw him this past summer with USA Basketball and he looked really good.”

Quote from the beat writer of his college team
Quote
Smart’s never going to be a guy who gets his paycheck and becomes satisfied. He works on his game like crazy, so maybe his shot will get better, but his whole game will get better, too, because of the way he works. Number one, he wants to win and that will always be, I think, at the top of the list for him.”

Great post.
You can look at this two ways. 

First, this does not show or prove in any way that Marcus works any harder than the average NBA player.  Is he an extreme outlier like kobe in this regard?  Does he work harder than IT?  Than Crowder?  Than Avery?  Google any of these guys with hard work and see what you get.  NBA players work pretty hard on their game in general.

The other way to look at this is, he's working pretty hard yet is still is a terrible offensive player.  Not looking good.
There is a third way to look at it. That you refuse to believe what is widely believe by players and personnel men around the league, because it doesn't fit your narrative.

I'm not sure that it matters so much where his work ethic compares to other players in the league. What is more important is whether he works hard enough to improve. The quotes indicate he does. The thread is about improving Smart's offensive game, not comparing his offensive game to other players.

Personally I'm blaming his offensive issues on injuries. He is shooting poorly but he is taking better shots (more shots from close less from 3) and still finding his comfort after coming off of a serious knee injury. He has only played in 18 games, so there is plenty of time to improve his shooting numbers over the course of the season.
So you're not sure how comparing his work ethic to other players matters?  Well, if you're not working harder than the next guy, then it isn't really an advantage for you.  What good does it do to improve when everyone else in the league is working hard and improving too?

As for my narrative, I am tired of the injury excuses.  Have they helped him?  No.  But evidence from before his injuries (including summer league) are consistent with what we are seeing now.  What I have not seen at any time is any evidence to suggest that he will be a good offensive player.  Just a long list of excuses, hopes, and dreams and little substance.

And something else I have mentioned before that I need to bring up again.  Marcus is certainly on the young side in general, but he isn't young in a basketball sense.  Probably been playing bball all his life, working on his game.  Shoot, my son is a competitive basketball who can do anything these guys can do with the ball (he's 11).  He plays travel ball on a team with a bunch of kids just like him.  Even at this age you can see things that some kids do well and others do not. 

Why am I saying this?  Not to brag on my kid but to suggest that many of the skills are ingrained a very early age.  I don't think it is likely to just tell Marcus, hey, do what IT does because you know what, maybe he does not posses the ability to what IT does.  And no amount of work will get him there.  Shooting a million shots a day won't allow him to shoot like Ray Allen.  Dribbling all day won't give him Rondo's handle.  Looking at video won't give him Lebron's court vision. 

Or any other suggestions we have for him.  Any outcome is going to be limited by smart's ability, which to put it simply, is not that good.
The title of this thread is "Help Fix Smart's offensive game". Fixing his offensive game only has to do with his improvement. Not his improvement compared to the next guy.

His work ethic compared to the average player in the league doesn't matter because we are talking about whether he can improve on offense, we aren't talking about whether he can improve on offense relative to other players around the league.

If another player improves offensively more than Smart that doesn't have a thing to do whether he can improve or not. In the end the thread is about how Smart can improve and whether he can improve.

Can Smart work hard enough to improve? The quotes I posted indicate yes. Will he improve more than a guy like Paul George? Well, that doesn't matter at all if the question is can Smart improve, and make no mistake that is the question that we were discussing.

As to skills being engrained at an early age, you realize Smart was one of the best scorers in the college game when he came out right? I assume you mentioned your son's travel team to indicate that Smart has never been good offensively and he isn't going to learn now. Well, that simply isn't true. He's been good offensively for as long as he has been on the national scene.

Using the analogy of your sons team, when those players get to high school, they are going to have a hard time scoring on the varsity team as freshman. During their freshman year those ingrained skills would not be evident against the varsity team. Having watched those kids play at an early age you would know the skills are there, even though they are not apparent in that setting.

In other words if you are going to say a kid doesn't have an ingrained skill because he can't show it as a freshman, (or a sophomore who missed a bunch of games his freshman year due to injury) then you are probably judging him too soon. Saying Smart doesn't have skills and can't improve because you haven't seen them in the NBA through less than a full season played (even though he showed to be a scorer in college) is judging too soon.
My point is the game is played in the context of the others players.  If everyone is working equally hard, then smart is not gaining an advantage thus calling him a hard worker is irrelevant without context.

And smart being a good college scorer is not what I am talking.  I think we both know that plenty of good college scorers don't make it in the nba.  And many that do make it don't go on to become good scorers.  So smart being a good scorer in college doesn't mean a whole lot now.

What I am talking about with analogies to my son is about skill (not production).  My point is, some of the kids on his team can shoot very well some cannot.  It isn't always because some practice more than others.  Other kids have, and use, euro steps like they are second hand.  Other kids can't do one to save their life, even though they know how and when to use it.  Could every kid get a little better with practice?  Of course, but some kids are more natural at certain skills and will always have the advantage.  And once you get to the highest level (whether in high school or the nba), you really have to perfect certain aspects of your game.  And some simply do not have the ability to do so.

Now back to smart for a second.  He did not forget how to shoot when he got to the nba.  He didn't get slower or less explosive.  The issue is that the "skills" he used to his advantage in college (strength) simply do not give him the same advantage at this level.  So what does he have to fall back on?  What can he develop?  Can he become a better shooter, ball handler, quicker?  Sure.  But will it be acceptable?  We don't know. 

What bothers me is that fans don't understand skill and think that with a little practice, this guy can do what that guy can do.  Most of the time it does not work that way.

Re: Help Fix Smart's Offensive Game
« Reply #48 on: January 14, 2016, 07:53:36 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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 The good news is when he does get all the way to the rim he's shooting 47.5% from the left side of the paint and 54.8% from the right side.

This isn't good news, just so you know.  Those are really bad finishing numbers for the paint.
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Re: Help Fix Smart's Offensive Game
« Reply #49 on: January 15, 2016, 11:19:24 AM »

Offline showtime

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 The good news is when he does get all the way to the rim he's shooting 47.5% from the left side of the paint and 54.8% from the right side.

This isn't good news, just so you know.  Those are really bad finishing numbers for the paint.
Yeah that made my day!! Those numbers are terrible!

Re: Help Fix Smart's Offensive Game
« Reply #50 on: January 15, 2016, 12:56:34 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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50% shooting is still good if they all count for 2 be it fom 2ft or 20ft. Not to mention free throw chances mixed in. I'd rather have that than under 30% threes. Getting into the paint and hitting more free throws is what Smart should be focused on early. No matter if 50%fg and 69% ft isn't good enough for some its improving his offense, getting him comfortable and opens up some outside shots. Nothing wrong with that.

Re: Help Fix Smart's Offensive Game
« Reply #51 on: January 15, 2016, 01:02:24 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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50% shooting is still good if they all count for 2 be it fom 2ft or 20ft. Not to mention free throw chances mixed in. I'd rather have that than under 30% threes. Getting into the paint and hitting more free throws is what Smart should be focused on early. No matter if 50%fg and 69% ft isn't good enough for some its improving his offense, getting him comfortable and opens up some outside shots. Nothing wrong with that.
Huh?   

Re: Help Fix Smart's Offensive Game
« Reply #52 on: January 15, 2016, 01:19:02 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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50% shooting is still good if they all count for 2 be it fom 2ft or 20ft. Not to mention free throw chances mixed in. I'd rather have that than under 30% threes. Getting into the paint and hitting more free throws is what Smart should be focused on early. No matter if 50%fg and 69% ft isn't good enough for some its improving his offense, getting him comfortable and opens up some outside shots. Nothing wrong with that.
Huh?
Its to the complaints about inside fg%

Re: Help Fix Smart's Offensive Game
« Reply #53 on: January 15, 2016, 01:23:25 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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50% shooting is still good if they all count for 2 be it fom 2ft or 20ft. Not to mention free throw chances mixed in. I'd rather have that than under 30% threes. Getting into the paint and hitting more free throws is what Smart should be focused on early. No matter if 50%fg and 69% ft isn't good enough for some its improving his offense, getting him comfortable and opens up some outside shots. Nothing wrong with that.

The point is, if you're only finishing around 50% in the paint, that's way, way, wayyyyy below average.

For reference, career shooting numbers for other guards from 0-3 feet:

Jeremy Lin - 60.3%
Russell Westbrook - 57.5%
Jeff Teague - 59.3%
Tony Parker - 65.1% (!!!!)


Smart right now looks a lot more like

Ricky Rubio - 46.4%


The terrible interior finishing (and the very low percentage of attempts from 0-3 feet overall), does not bode well for Smart, at all.  It suggests his is more than a simple cold shooting streak.  He's struggling to complete shots at the NBA level at an acceptable rate, period, even the types of shots that are supposed to be easiest.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2016, 01:29:56 PM by PhoSita »
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Re: Help Fix Smart's Offensive Game
« Reply #54 on: January 15, 2016, 01:27:17 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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50% shooting is still good if they all count for 2 be it fom 2ft or 20ft. Not to mention free throw chances mixed in. I'd rather have that than under 30% threes. Getting into the paint and hitting more free throws is what Smart should be focused on early. No matter if 50%fg and 69% ft isn't good enough for some its improving his offense, getting him comfortable and opens up some outside shots. Nothing wrong with that.

The point is, if you're only finishing around 50% in the paint, that's way, way, wayyyyy below average.

For reference, career shooting numbers for other guards from 0-3 feet:

Jeremy Lin - 60.3%
Russell Westbrook - 57.5%
Jeff Teague - 59.3%
Tony Parker - 65.1% (!!!!)
It's bad and I even mention the fts aren't great. But it's better offense and he will improve. Many guys need to settle down during games by getting inside and to the line. It opens things up. Clearly bombing away in bail out shots from 3 isn't working. We need to start working inside out. Try to get him to develop on a Kyle Lowry type curve.

Re: Help Fix Smart's Offensive Game
« Reply #55 on: January 15, 2016, 01:37:06 PM »

Offline feckless

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How do you make Smart smarter?  His decisions, choices, shot selection are just wrong, all to often.  And it is not just hero ball, which IT and Crowder suffer from, for Smart there seems to be just no thought process, just random shots, drives and passes. I cannot tell what he sees out there to make the choices he does.  Literally some of the most ridiculously timed 3 point shots I have ever seen. :o ??? I seriously think he has the offensive basketball IQ of Tony Allen, which is very low.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2016, 01:43:02 PM by feckless »
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Re: Help Fix Smart's Offensive Game
« Reply #56 on: January 15, 2016, 01:46:13 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Honestly it's not so much his BBIQ I'm worried about, it's his basic physical tools and skills.  So far in his career he really hasn't shown that he can leverage his size and strength to make up for his lack of burst / first step / explosiveness / vertical.   He hasn't shown that he has the high level of skill he would need to make up for the lack of physical dominance, either.
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Re: Help Fix Smart's Offensive Game
« Reply #57 on: January 15, 2016, 01:54:31 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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Honestly it's not so much his BBIQ I'm worried about, it's his basic physical tools and skills.  So far in his career he really hasn't shown that he can leverage his size and strength to make up for his lack of burst / first step / explosiveness / vertical.   He hasn't shown that he has the high level of skill he would need to make up for the lack of physical dominance, either.
I'd say he lacks the aggression for offense that he has on defense.

Re: Help Fix Smart's Offensive Game
« Reply #58 on: January 15, 2016, 02:00:21 PM »

Offline feckless

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For me he has the athletic skills to defend, steal the ball and rebound.  These are reaction skills.  The creative thinking, choosing, that comes on the offensive end are where I see his weakness and lack of progress.

In some ways what I mean is more apparent in soccer and hockey where you have defensive players who react well and offensive players who create opportunities.  Of course there is an overlap but strengths dictate effectiveness.
Days up and down they come, like rain on a conga drum, forget most, remember some, don't turn none away.   Townes Van Zandt

Re: Help Fix Smart's Offensive Game
« Reply #59 on: January 15, 2016, 02:14:16 PM »

Offline Evantime34

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This is a sad thread. The idea for the thread was to suggest ways that Smart could improve.

Then it lead to a lot of people saying that there is essentially no way to fix Smart's offensive game.

I refuse to believe that a 21 year old can't improve. I'd put money on him finishing the season with better numbers and showing improvement from last year on the whole.
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