Help Fix Smart's Offensive Game

[D Dub]

All he needs to do is practice shooting more. 

Don't leave the gym without making 500 shots from the left side of the floor, 500 from the right side, and 500 free throws. 

[droopdog7]

My goodness gracious.  Those have to be some of be some of the worse offenisve numbers I have ever seen.  Downright disrespectful of the game.

Marcus' problem won't be fixed with advice.  His issue is he has below average basketball skills in facets of offensive basketball.  That isn't going to be fixed with a talking.  That isn't even going to be fixed with hard work.  Mostly that will not change regardless of what he does.

Disrespectful? Smart has a great work ethic, he'll get better with time.

Here is another supposed truth with no real substance behind it.  Who says smart is an especially hard worker; harder than the average player?  Easy to say.  Whether true or not who the heck knows.

Google Marcus Smart hard work. There are pages and pages of articles with beat writers saying Marcus Smart is a hard worker.

Here is a quote from Stevens himself

"I see the daily work that he puts in, so he’s getting better,” Stevens said Tuesday night before the Celtics’ open practice for season ticket holders at TD Garden.

Here is a quote from Danny Ainge

“You’ve got to put in the time and the work, and Marcus is putting in the work,” Celtics president of basketball operations Danny Ainge said.

Here is a quote from James Harden

“Good hands. Good feet. Starting to shoot the ball a lot better. He’s getting a lot better. I’m sure he works extremely hard. I saw him this past summer with USA Basketball and he looked really good.”

Quote from the beat writer of his college team

Smart’s never going to be a guy who gets his paycheck and becomes satisfied. He works on his game like crazy, so maybe his shot will get better, but his whole game will get better, too, because of the way he works. Number one, he wants to win and that will always be, I think, at the top of the list for him.”

Great post.

You can look at this two ways. 

First, this does not show or prove in any way that Marcus works any harder than the average NBA player.  Is he an extreme outlier like kobe in this regard?  Does he work harder than IT?  Than Crowder?  Than Avery?  Google any of these guys with hard work and see what you get.  NBA players work pretty hard on their game in general.

The other way to look at this is, he's working pretty hard yet is still is a terrible offensive player.  Not looking good.

[Evantime34]

My goodness gracious.  Those have to be some of be some of the worse offenisve numbers I have ever seen.  Downright disrespectful of the game.

Marcus' problem won't be fixed with advice.  His issue is he has below average basketball skills in facets of offensive basketball.  That isn't going to be fixed with a talking.  That isn't even going to be fixed with hard work.  Mostly that will not change regardless of what he does.

Disrespectful? Smart has a great work ethic, he'll get better with time.

Here is another supposed truth with no real substance behind it.  Who says smart is an especially hard worker; harder than the average player?  Easy to say.  Whether true or not who the heck knows.

Google Marcus Smart hard work. There are pages and pages of articles with beat writers saying Marcus Smart is a hard worker.

Here is a quote from Stevens himself

"I see the daily work that he puts in, so he’s getting better,” Stevens said Tuesday night before the Celtics’ open practice for season ticket holders at TD Garden.

Here is a quote from Danny Ainge

“You’ve got to put in the time and the work, and Marcus is putting in the work,” Celtics president of basketball operations Danny Ainge said.

Here is a quote from James Harden

“Good hands. Good feet. Starting to shoot the ball a lot better. He’s getting a lot better. I’m sure he works extremely hard. I saw him this past summer with USA Basketball and he looked really good.”

Quote from the beat writer of his college team

Smart’s never going to be a guy who gets his paycheck and becomes satisfied. He works on his game like crazy, so maybe his shot will get better, but his whole game will get better, too, because of the way he works. Number one, he wants to win and that will always be, I think, at the top of the list for him.”

Great post.

You can look at this two ways. 

First, this does not show or prove in any way that Marcus works any harder than the average NBA player.  Is he an extreme outlier like kobe in this regard?  Does he work harder than IT?  Than Crowder?  Than Avery?  Google any of these guys with hard work and see what you get.  NBA players work pretty hard on their game in general.

The other way to look at this is, he's working pretty hard yet is still is a terrible offensive player.  Not looking good.

There is a third way to look at it. That you refuse to believe what is widely believe by players and personnel men around the league, because it doesn't fit your narrative.

I'm not sure that it matters so much where his work ethic compares to other players in the league. What is more important is whether he works hard enough to improve. The quotes indicate he does. The thread is about improving Smart's offensive game, not comparing his offensive game to other players.

Personally I'm blaming his offensive issues on injuries. He is shooting poorly but he is taking better shots (more shots from close less from 3) and still finding his comfort after coming off of a serious knee injury. He has only played in 18 games, so there is plenty of time to improve his shooting numbers over the course of the season.

[kozlodoev]

If he works that hard, and the results are still absent, that's probably even more disheartening to me.

[Evantime34]

If he works that hard, and the results are still absent, that's probably even more disheartening to me.

They have been absent through 18 games. You are deciding on whether he improved well before the season is over. I still expect him to have better numbers than last year by the time the season is over.

[droopdog7]

My goodness gracious.  Those have to be some of be some of the worse offenisve numbers I have ever seen.  Downright disrespectful of the game.

Marcus' problem won't be fixed with advice.  His issue is he has below average basketball skills in facets of offensive basketball.  That isn't going to be fixed with a talking.  That isn't even going to be fixed with hard work.  Mostly that will not change regardless of what he does.

Disrespectful? Smart has a great work ethic, he'll get better with time.

Here is another supposed truth with no real substance behind it.  Who says smart is an especially hard worker; harder than the average player?  Easy to say.  Whether true or not who the heck knows.

Google Marcus Smart hard work. There are pages and pages of articles with beat writers saying Marcus Smart is a hard worker.

Here is a quote from Stevens himself

"I see the daily work that he puts in, so he’s getting better,” Stevens said Tuesday night before the Celtics’ open practice for season ticket holders at TD Garden.

Here is a quote from Danny Ainge

“You’ve got to put in the time and the work, and Marcus is putting in the work,” Celtics president of basketball operations Danny Ainge said.

Here is a quote from James Harden

“Good hands. Good feet. Starting to shoot the ball a lot better. He’s getting a lot better. I’m sure he works extremely hard. I saw him this past summer with USA Basketball and he looked really good.”

Quote from the beat writer of his college team

Smart’s never going to be a guy who gets his paycheck and becomes satisfied. He works on his game like crazy, so maybe his shot will get better, but his whole game will get better, too, because of the way he works. Number one, he wants to win and that will always be, I think, at the top of the list for him.”

Great post.

You can look at this two ways. 

First, this does not show or prove in any way that Marcus works any harder than the average NBA player.  Is he an extreme outlier like kobe in this regard?  Does he work harder than IT?  Than Crowder?  Than Avery?  Google any of these guys with hard work and see what you get.  NBA players work pretty hard on their game in general.

The other way to look at this is, he's working pretty hard yet is still is a terrible offensive player.  Not looking good.

There is a third way to look at it. That you refuse to believe what is widely believe by players and personnel men around the league, because it doesn't fit your narrative.

I'm not sure that it matters so much where his work ethic compares to other players in the league. What is more important is whether he works hard enough to improve. The quotes indicate he does. The thread is about improving Smart's offensive game, not comparing his offensive game to other players.

Personally I'm blaming his offensive issues on injuries. He is shooting poorly but he is taking better shots (more shots from close less from 3) and still finding his comfort after coming off of a serious knee injury. He has only played in 18 games, so there is plenty of time to improve his shooting numbers over the course of the season.

So you're not sure how comparing his work ethic to other players matters?  Well, if you're not working harder than the next guy, then it isn't really an advantage for you.  What good does it do to improve when everyone else in the league is working hard and improving too?

As for my narrative, I am tired of the injury excuses.  Have they helped him?  No.  But evidence from before his injuries (including summer league) are consistent with what we are seeing now.  What I have not seen at any time is any evidence to suggest that he will be a good offensive player.  Just a long list of excuses, hopes, and dreams and little substance.

And something else I have mentioned before that I need to bring up again.  Marcus is certainly on the young side in general, but he isn't young in a basketball sense.  Probably been playing bball all his life, working on his game.  Shoot, my son is a competitive basketball who can do anything these guys can do with the ball (he's 11).  He plays travel ball on a team with a bunch of kids just like him.  Even at this age you can see things that some kids do well and others do not. 

Why am I saying this?  Not to brag on my kid but to suggest that many of the skills are ingrained a very early age.  I don't think it is likely to just tell Marcus, hey, do what IT does because you know what, maybe he does not posses the ability to what IT does.  And no amount of work will get him there.  Shooting a million shots a day won't allow him to shoot like Ray Allen.  Dribbling all day won't give him Rondo's handle.  Looking at video won't give him Lebron's court vision. 

Or any other suggestions we have for him.  Any outcome is going to be limited by smart's ability, which to put it simply, is not that good.

[feckless]

He can work hard and we can trade away all his competition on this team but a bad shot is still a bad shot.  Marcus's shot selection is atrocious and his passing is not much better.  He will sometimes make a nice shot and sometimes throw a great pass but in general his shooting and passing choices are poor to awful.  He needs a new head.

[guava_wrench]

Watch Chauncey Billups another big bulky point guard with a slow first step and watch how he got into the paint.

Perhaps Smart can try to copy Billups' post play, but Billups is a tough comparison because Billups could shoot. It is hard to get into the paint with the ball if you don't have a legitimate pull-up threat and you don't have the quickness. Post play doesn't require actually getting into the post with the ball. You are already there before you get the ball.

[jpotter33]

My goodness gracious.  Those have to be some of be some of the worse offenisve numbers I have ever seen.  Downright disrespectful of the game.

Marcus' problem won't be fixed with advice.  His issue is he has below average basketball skills in facets of offensive basketball.  That isn't going to be fixed with a talking.  That isn't even going to be fixed with hard work.  Mostly that will not change regardless of what he does.

Disrespectful? Smart has a great work ethic, he'll get better with time.

Here is another supposed truth with no real substance behind it.  Who says smart is an especially hard worker; harder than the average player?  Easy to say.  Whether true or not who the heck knows.

I'm not sure that even the biggest hater on Smart would claim this, though this post certainly might invalidate that. It's no coincidence that two of Smart's best areas, i.e. Rebounding and defense, are areas that are largely effort/hustle/hard work-oriented. It's a truism at this point that has been empirically validated by teammates, coaches, scouts, etc..

[jpotter33]

All he needs to do is practice shooting more. 

Don't leave the gym without making 500 shots from the left side of the floor, 500 from the right side, and 500 free throws.

Only way he'll get better. Put him on the Ray Allen cycle. He's got the mentality to do it, too.

[guava_wrench]

All he needs to do is practice shooting more. 

Don't leave the gym without making 500 shots from the left side of the floor, 500 from the right side, and 500 free throws.

That is no guarantee of anything. The FTs are also not his big problem at the moment and the action of FT shooting with your feet nailed to the floor is not a great proxy for shooting with defense and the clock running.

The truth is all we need from him is the ability to hit corner 3s and we could hide him there. But reps don't mean his development curve will reach an acceptable level.

Fans often assume that guys who can't shoot well don't take enough practice shots. That just isn't true for many of them. Would you expect DeAndre Jordan to become good at 3s during games if he took that many reps? If not him, why Smart? The reality is that a lot of guys who look like they can't shoot in games bury shots all day when shooting around. Especially on repeated shots from the same location.

My point isn't that guys don't improve with practice. My point is that the improvement won't necessarily make them competent at shooting during games. You need to be a really good shooter to be able to hit shots in the hectic chaos of an NBA game, especially with defenders running around, the lack of time to get into a comfortable rhythm, and the fact that players usually have to shoot from wherever they find themselves open, not from their favorite spot.

[jpotter33]

If he works that hard, and the results are still absent, that's probably even more disheartening to me.

They have been absent through 18 games. You are deciding on whether he improved well before the season is over. I still expect him to have better numbers than last year by the time the season is over.

I agree. A more fair assessment will judge his numbers over the second half of the season, because he should be fully back to speed by then. Let's just hope no more injuries occur for him.

[SHAQATTACK]

He needs a lot of offensive work.

But he has been injuried so much.....simular to AB early career .......about all he can do is play defense right now .

Offense is more practice oriented .  It takes way way more hours of shooting amd work to be a NBA offensive threat .

He just hasn't had the court time to develop a comprehensive offensive game. 

This was a lot Crowders problem at Dallas .....he never played enough to get good. It takes reps and playing time to adjust to the NBA .

RJ Hunter is in the same boat .....not enough minutes .......same with Young ......these guys need REAL court game minutes to succeed .   
Must be patient.

Smart just has not been on the court enough to find his offensive game .....to much time missed and then lots of games to get back up to speed ....

If he can stay healthy for about 40 games straight and play 30 minutes at least a game .  I think the results will be amazing.

[Evantime34]

My goodness gracious.  Those have to be some of be some of the worse offenisve numbers I have ever seen.  Downright disrespectful of the game.

Marcus' problem won't be fixed with advice.  His issue is he has below average basketball skills in facets of offensive basketball.  That isn't going to be fixed with a talking.  That isn't even going to be fixed with hard work.  Mostly that will not change regardless of what he does.

Disrespectful? Smart has a great work ethic, he'll get better with time.

Here is another supposed truth with no real substance behind it.  Who says smart is an especially hard worker; harder than the average player?  Easy to say.  Whether true or not who the heck knows.

Google Marcus Smart hard work. There are pages and pages of articles with beat writers saying Marcus Smart is a hard worker.

Here is a quote from Stevens himself

"I see the daily work that he puts in, so he’s getting better,” Stevens said Tuesday night before the Celtics’ open practice for season ticket holders at TD Garden.

Here is a quote from Danny Ainge

“You’ve got to put in the time and the work, and Marcus is putting in the work,” Celtics president of basketball operations Danny Ainge said.

Here is a quote from James Harden

“Good hands. Good feet. Starting to shoot the ball a lot better. He’s getting a lot better. I’m sure he works extremely hard. I saw him this past summer with USA Basketball and he looked really good.”

Quote from the beat writer of his college team

Smart’s never going to be a guy who gets his paycheck and becomes satisfied. He works on his game like crazy, so maybe his shot will get better, but his whole game will get better, too, because of the way he works. Number one, he wants to win and that will always be, I think, at the top of the list for him.”

Great post.

You can look at this two ways. 

First, this does not show or prove in any way that Marcus works any harder than the average NBA player.  Is he an extreme outlier like kobe in this regard?  Does he work harder than IT?  Than Crowder?  Than Avery?  Google any of these guys with hard work and see what you get.  NBA players work pretty hard on their game in general.

The other way to look at this is, he's working pretty hard yet is still is a terrible offensive player.  Not looking good.

There is a third way to look at it. That you refuse to believe what is widely believe by players and personnel men around the league, because it doesn't fit your narrative.

I'm not sure that it matters so much where his work ethic compares to other players in the league. What is more important is whether he works hard enough to improve. The quotes indicate he does. The thread is about improving Smart's offensive game, not comparing his offensive game to other players.

Personally I'm blaming his offensive issues on injuries. He is shooting poorly but he is taking better shots (more shots from close less from 3) and still finding his comfort after coming off of a serious knee injury. He has only played in 18 games, so there is plenty of time to improve his shooting numbers over the course of the season.

So you're not sure how comparing his work ethic to other players matters?  Well, if you're not working harder than the next guy, then it isn't really an advantage for you.  What good does it do to improve when everyone else in the league is working hard and improving too?

As for my narrative, I am tired of the injury excuses.  Have they helped him?  No.  But evidence from before his injuries (including summer league) are consistent with what we are seeing now.  What I have not seen at any time is any evidence to suggest that he will be a good offensive player.  Just a long list of excuses, hopes, and dreams and little substance.

And something else I have mentioned before that I need to bring up again.  Marcus is certainly on the young side in general, but he isn't young in a basketball sense.  Probably been playing bball all his life, working on his game.  Shoot, my son is a competitive basketball who can do anything these guys can do with the ball (he's 11).  He plays travel ball on a team with a bunch of kids just like him.  Even at this age you can see things that some kids do well and others do not. 

Why am I saying this?  Not to brag on my kid but to suggest that many of the skills are ingrained a very early age.  I don't think it is likely to just tell Marcus, hey, do what IT does because you know what, maybe he does not posses the ability to what IT does.  And no amount of work will get him there.  Shooting a million shots a day won't allow him to shoot like Ray Allen.  Dribbling all day won't give him Rondo's handle.  Looking at video won't give him Lebron's court vision. 

Or any other suggestions we have for him.  Any outcome is going to be limited by smart's ability, which to put it simply, is not that good.

The title of this thread is "Help Fix Smart's offensive game". Fixing his offensive game only has to do with his improvement. Not his improvement compared to the next guy.

His work ethic compared to the average player in the league doesn't matter because we are talking about whether he can improve on offense, we aren't talking about whether he can improve on offense relative to other players around the league.

If another player improves offensively more than Smart that doesn't have a thing to do whether he can improve or not. In the end the thread is about how Smart can improve and whether he can improve.

Can Smart work hard enough to improve? The quotes I posted indicate yes. Will he improve more than a guy like Paul George? Well, that doesn't matter at all if the question is can Smart improve, and make no mistake that is the question that we were discussing.

As to skills being engrained at an early age, you realize Smart was one of the best scorers in the college game when he came out right? I assume you mentioned your son's travel team to indicate that Smart has never been good offensively and he isn't going to learn now. Well, that simply isn't true. He's been good offensively for as long as he has been on the national scene.

Using the analogy of your sons team, when those players get to high school, they are going to have a hard time scoring on the varsity team as freshman. During their freshman year those ingrained skills would not be evident against the varsity team. Having watched those kids play at an early age you would know the skills are there, even though they are not apparent in that setting.

In other words if you are going to say a kid doesn't have an ingrained skill because he can't show it as a freshman, (or a sophomore who missed a bunch of games his freshman year due to injury) then you are probably judging him too soon. Saying Smart doesn't have skills and can't improve because you haven't seen them in the NBA through less than a full season played (even though he showed to be a scorer in college) is judging too soon.

[guava_wrench]

All he needs to do is practice shooting more. 

Don't leave the gym without making 500 shots from the left side of the floor, 500 from the right side, and 500 free throws.

Only way he'll get better. Put him on the Ray Allen cycle. He's got the mentality to do it, too.

He should be compared to Kidd, not Allen. Kid shows that it is possible to develop a very narrow efficiency from deep, even if you never become a generally good shooter.

The problem is that Smart has no where near Kidd's talent to bridge his career until he gets to that point. Kidd's elite passing made him excellent on offense, even without the ability to shoot. Like Smart, Kidd was also considered an excellent defender.