Kelly for Ryan Anderson

[PhoSita]

The Celtics haven't been a contender in 4 seasons and haven't ever bottomed out.  That is the middle.

They had a bottom 5 record two seasons ago. 

Maybe Ainge could have waived or trade-dumped some veteran guys (e.g. Humphries and Bass), but for the most part that was as close as you can get to the bottom without indulging in outright sabotage and trading guys off for pennies on the dollar, a la Philadelphia.

[Moranis]

The Celtics haven't been a contender in 4 seasons and haven't ever bottomed out.  That is the middle.

They had a bottom 5 record two seasons ago. 

Maybe Ainge could have waived or trade-dumped some veteran guys (e.g. Humphries and Bass), but for the most part that was as close as you can get to the bottom without indulging in outright sabotage and trading guys off for pennies on the dollar, a la Philadelphia.

And won 25 games and had the following people start at least 15 games: Jeff green, Brandon Bass, Kris Humphries, Gerald Wallace, Rajon Rondo.  That isn't bottoming out.  that is just having a bad team. 

[ssspence]

As previously stated, I think Olynyk is the least likely player on the team to be traded, with Crowder, Bradley and Thomas close behind. The only way he gets dealt is in a deal Ainge can't turn down for a true superstar.

[footey]

As previously stated, I think Olynyk is the least likely player on the team to be traded, with Crowder, Bradley and Thomas close behind. The only way he gets dealt is in a deal Ainge can't turn down for a true superstar.

I think Olynyk is unlikely to get traded, but more likely to be traded than any of Crowder, Bradley or Thomas.  Crowder is the best two way player on the team today (shocking but true) and a very friendly team contract, Bradley is our best shooter and a great defender, and a very team friendly contract, and Isiah is our one go to scorer, whose only deficiency is covering guys on D. 

[PhoSita]

The Celtics haven't been a contender in 4 seasons and haven't ever bottomed out.  That is the middle.

They had a bottom 5 record two seasons ago. 

Maybe Ainge could have waived or trade-dumped some veteran guys (e.g. Humphries and Bass), but for the most part that was as close as you can get to the bottom without indulging in outright sabotage and trading guys off for pennies on the dollar, a la Philadelphia.

And won 25 games and had the following people start at least 15 games: Jeff green, Brandon Bass, Kris Humphries, Gerald Wallace, Rajon Rondo.  That isn't bottoming out.  that is just having a bad team.

I mean, it's hard to call a bottom 5 team anything other than, you know, being at the bottom.

So I guess it's true that Ainge could have done more to really strip the team of players who had any notion of how to win.  But that likely would have meant giving up Rondo and Green for little to nothing, which means the team would not currently have Crowder or any of the other draft assets they acquired in those deals. 

Maybe that would be worth it if they had gotten a top 2 pick.  On the other hand, if all the team got out of that was, say, Dante Exum, Aaron Gordon, or an injured Joel Embiid, would they really be better off?


I share your frustration when Ainge does things like hold onto expiring veterans (e.g. Bass and Humphries) instead of just waiving them.  What did keeping Humphries for the stretch run in 2014, or keeping Bass for the stretch run in 2015, really accomplish?

[ssspence]

As previously stated, I think Olynyk is the least likely player on the team to be traded, with Crowder, Bradley and Thomas close behind. The only way he gets dealt is in a deal Ainge can't turn down for a true superstar.

I think Olynyk is unlikely to get traded, but more likely to be traded than any of Crowder, Bradley or Thomas.  Crowder is the best two way player on the team today (shocking but true) and a very friendly team contract, Bradley is our best shooter and a great defender, and a very team friendly contract, and Isiah is our one go to scorer, whose only deficiency is covering guys on D.

Fair enough. But I wasn't really commenting on how good Olynyk is. What I'm saying is I know he's thought of VERY highly in the Cs org.

[TheSundanceKid]

As previously stated, I think Olynyk is the least likely player on the team to be traded, with Crowder, Bradley and Thomas close behind. The only way he gets dealt is in a deal Ainge can't turn down for a true superstar.

I think Olynyk is unlikely to get traded, but more likely to be traded than any of Crowder, Bradley or Thomas.  Crowder is the best two way player on the team today (shocking but true) and a very friendly team contract, Bradley is our best shooter and a great defender, and a very team friendly contract, and Isiah is our one go to scorer, whose only deficiency is covering guys on D.

And I think for the reasons you listed if we trade for a star like Cousins (for arguments sake) then we'd need to include at least one of them to make it a fair proposal.

[chilidawg]

As previously stated, I think Olynyk is the least likely player on the team to be traded, with Crowder, Bradley and Thomas close behind. The only way he gets dealt is in a deal Ainge can't turn down for a true superstar.

I think Olynyk is unlikely to get traded, but more likely to be traded than any of Crowder, Bradley or Thomas.  Crowder is the best two way player on the team today (shocking but true) and a very friendly team contract, Bradley is our best shooter and a great defender, and a very team friendly contract, and Isiah is our one go to scorer, whose only deficiency is covering guys on D.

Fair enough. But I wasn't really commenting on how good Olynyk is. What I'm saying is I know he's thought of VERY highly in the Cs org.

Do you know this because you have an inside source, or are you inferring this? 

[Moranis]

The Celtics haven't been a contender in 4 seasons and haven't ever bottomed out.  That is the middle.

They had a bottom 5 record two seasons ago. 

Maybe Ainge could have waived or trade-dumped some veteran guys (e.g. Humphries and Bass), but for the most part that was as close as you can get to the bottom without indulging in outright sabotage and trading guys off for pennies on the dollar, a la Philadelphia.

And won 25 games and had the following people start at least 15 games: Jeff green, Brandon Bass, Kris Humphries, Gerald Wallace, Rajon Rondo.  That isn't bottoming out.  that is just having a bad team.

I mean, it's hard to call a bottom 5 team anything other than, you know, being at the bottom.

So I guess it's true that Ainge could have done more to really strip the team of players who had any notion of how to win.  But that likely would have meant giving up Rondo and Green for little to nothing, which means the team would not currently have Crowder or any of the other draft assets they acquired in those deals. 

Maybe that would be worth it if they had gotten a top 2 pick.  On the other hand, if all the team got out of that was, say, Dante Exum, Aaron Gordon, or an injured Joel Embiid, would they really be better off?


I share your frustration when Ainge does things like hold onto expiring veterans (e.g. Bass and Humphries) instead of just waiving them.  What did keeping Humphries for the stretch run in 2014, or keeping Bass for the stretch run in 2015, really accomplish?

It is more I'm just frustrated with Ainge's total lack of direction.  He does rebuilding trades by trading Rondo and Green and then turns around and does a win now trade by acquiring Thomas.  Individually the trades were all solid trades, but when you put them together they send a mixed message and that is why the team is in mediocre land and appears like it will be in mediocre land for awhile (even if the BKN pick leads to Simmons, it will be awhile before Simmons is ready to compete).  It has been 4 years of this mixed messages/lack of direction and I don't see an end to it.  I'd just like Ainge to either go all in or truly tank.  Frankly, I don't care which direction he takes, as long as he takes a direction.

[manl_lui]

i would pass, not that I hate Ryan Anderson or anything, but Kelly in recent games has really impressed me...it looks like he's finally getting a bit more aggressive and plays with a bit more aggressiveness and more emotion. Definitely seeing improvements and growth compare to last 2 years of KO. I also see less of his "pump fakes" at the 3, which I have been criticizing him for a while

[BudweiserCeltic]

The Celtics haven't been a contender in 4 seasons and haven't ever bottomed out.  That is the middle.

They had a bottom 5 record two seasons ago. 

Maybe Ainge could have waived or trade-dumped some veteran guys (e.g. Humphries and Bass), but for the most part that was as close as you can get to the bottom without indulging in outright sabotage and trading guys off for pennies on the dollar, a la Philadelphia.

And won 25 games and had the following people start at least 15 games: Jeff green, Brandon Bass, Kris Humphries, Gerald Wallace, Rajon Rondo.  That isn't bottoming out.  that is just having a bad team.

I mean, it's hard to call a bottom 5 team anything other than, you know, being at the bottom.

So I guess it's true that Ainge could have done more to really strip the team of players who had any notion of how to win.  But that likely would have meant giving up Rondo and Green for little to nothing, which means the team would not currently have Crowder or any of the other draft assets they acquired in those deals. 

Maybe that would be worth it if they had gotten a top 2 pick.  On the other hand, if all the team got out of that was, say, Dante Exum, Aaron Gordon, or an injured Joel Embiid, would they really be better off?


I share your frustration when Ainge does things like hold onto expiring veterans (e.g. Bass and Humphries) instead of just waiving them.  What did keeping Humphries for the stretch run in 2014, or keeping Bass for the stretch run in 2015, really accomplish?

It is more I'm just frustrated with Ainge's total lack of direction.  He does rebuilding trades by trading Rondo and Green and then turns around and does a win now trade by acquiring Thomas.  Individually the trades were all solid trades, but when you put them together they send a mixed message and that is why the team is in mediocre land and appears like it will be in mediocre land for awhile (even if the BKN pick leads to Simmons, it will be awhile before Simmons is ready to compete).  It has been 4 years of this mixed messages/lack of direction and I don't see an end to it.  I'd just like Ainge to either go all in or truly tank.  Frankly, I don't care which direction he takes, as long as he takes a direction.

How is acquiring a young pg in control for another 3.5 years on a great contract acquired for pennies on the dollar be looked at as a win now move? I mean, is it your position that acquiring any player that has NBA skills is a win now move?

Seems a bit shortsighted I think.

If all you're worried is about draft position, despite all the other assets we have for those purposes, then that's your problem I guess.

But Thomas IS a rebuild type move. More of those please. If it leads to winning more now coincidentally, then so be it and glad for it.

[jdpapa3]

People would turn on Ryan Anderson in about half a game.

Kelly is just better than him already. It was funny down in our New Orleans game how much Brad specifically attacked Gordon and Anderson.

[slamtheking]

I wouldn't trade Kelly for Anderson straight up. Anderson is a free agent this summer, Kelly is cost controlled for another year. Anderson isn't taking us to the next level. He's also a poor defender, an area Kelly has greatly improved on and hopefully will continue to do so.

We all need to remember that we aren't about to start making small moves to move towards contention. We are still in the development stage, waiting for a big star to become available and go all in on. Then we might start looking for veteran complementary pieces to go alongside that star. At this point in time trading our youth for complementary veterans seems wasteful and short sighted

and waiting around for a star that may never come seems silly. As does lingering in the middle.  I'm not saying I would trade KO for Anderson, but at least it would show Ainge is picking a direction and going with it.  This hovering around the middle nonsense is getting old.

Exactly how long do you think we've been "hovering around the middle"?

Let's take a look at this.  Hmm, until the KG/PP trade, we were shooting for a title challenge.  We trade them, get great picks and then we're mediocre.  ok, a season and a half of Rondo and Green as team leaders going nowhere.  could even argue that roster was less than mediocre.

Ainge then shakes it up less than halfway through last season to, theoretically, make the team worse by moving Rondo and Green for basically picks and journeymen (Crowder's blooming not withstanding).  No one could reasonably expected the improved play but Ainge saw the upswing and made the deal for IT.  Again, team is on the upswing to the point of making the playoffs. 

Draft night, tried to swing a deal to move up in the draft but unsuccessful in getting Charlotte to budge.  Able to move the corpse of Gerald Wallace for David Lee -  a talent upgrade regardless of what Lee has done so far on the court.  Team is above .500 which is better than last year with the prospect of a top 3 pick being added to this roster next season in addition to any FAs he may be able to sign. 

How exactly are we "hovering around the middle"? -- nevermind to the point where you feel it's gotten old.

The Celtics haven't been a contender in 4 seasons and haven't ever bottomed out.  That is the middle.

looks like we're going to disagree on when they stopped being a contender.  I'll give it 2 years, not 4 and  I'm not counting this season.  So, other than the last 2 years, a contender.  longshot, sure.  but that doesn't take them out of being a contender.

As someone else mentioned, the team then became bad enough to be in the bottom 5 resulting in the #6 pick --> you know, Marcus Smart.  That's not the middle.  That's the bottom you claim never happened.

In one season, Ainge got the team out of the bottom 5 and into a low playoff spot (sure, he tried to get worse trading Rondo and Green and ended up making the team better so he just went with it and acquired IT).  This year, the team has a winning record in a tougher conference and has a higher talent level than last year. 

This year, they're in the middle, no argument.  They have a top pick coming via Brooklyn this year with 2 more 1sts.  They'll be adding a top prospect so that's another step out of the middle.  They have a number of quality NBA players (no stars) all on reasonable deals going into next year where they will have cap room to pursue better players.  I'm not saying a top FA but 1 or 2 that are better players than what we currently have.  Again, more steps to rise above the middle.  Our plethora of younger players project to improve so again, more steps to rise above the middle.  plenty of trade assets to move in a possible deal for better players -- once again, more steps to rise above the middle.

I'm not sure why you think this team has been in the middle for 4 years ignoring the KG/PP days as well as the bottoming out to be the fifth worst team 2 years ago.  The team is on the rise and has a number of assets at it's disposal to continue that rise.  Not sure where the confusion comes from regarding which direction the team is heading.  clearly it's upwards.

[Evantime34]

The Celtics haven't been a contender in 4 seasons and haven't ever bottomed out.  That is the middle.

They had a bottom 5 record two seasons ago. 

Maybe Ainge could have waived or trade-dumped some veteran guys (e.g. Humphries and Bass), but for the most part that was as close as you can get to the bottom without indulging in outright sabotage and trading guys off for pennies on the dollar, a la Philadelphia.

TP!

I'd also argue that part of the bottom out was the trade with the Nets. So we really haven't seen the complete benefit of the year they bottomed out.

As to Ryan Anderson for Kelly, I don't understand the reasoning. I'd much rather have Kelly, who is comparable to Anderson under a rookie scale contract than Anderson at the 10-15 MM he probably is going to get next year.

Trading long term assets for short term ones is a terrible idea.

[BudweiserCeltic]

The Celtics haven't been a contender in 4 seasons and haven't ever bottomed out.  That is the middle.

They had a bottom 5 record two seasons ago. 

Maybe Ainge could have waived or trade-dumped some veteran guys (e.g. Humphries and Bass), but for the most part that was as close as you can get to the bottom without indulging in outright sabotage and trading guys off for pennies on the dollar, a la Philadelphia.

TP!

I'd also argue that part of the bottom out was the trade with the Nets. So we really haven't seen the complete benefit of the year they bottomed out.

As to Ryan Anderson for Kelly, I don't understand the reasoning. I'd much rather have Kelly, who is comparable to Anderson under a rookie scale contract than Anderson at the 10-15 MM he probably is going to get next year.

Trading long term assets for short term ones is a terrible idea.

Now we're getting somewhere... and half a season short-term at that.