Should Danny Ainge offer Demar Derozan a max contract this offseason? Will he?

[chambers]

I'm not giving a max contract to a non max player.  Recipe for disaster.

So a top 20 player entering his prime and still improving is not a max player?
Remember we aren't trading for the guy, we are using the enormous cap room we have.

[Celtics4ever]

The myth of Stevens' system and those who fit in it...

Oh what wit?  Just because your favorite stretch four is known more for his stretch marks than spreading the floor does not mean it does not happen.

Stevens tries to spread the floor.  It is well known, I suggest you do a google search.

It is becoming more and more clear that Sully does not fit in it...

[BudweiserCeltic]

The myth of Stevens' system and those who fit in it...

Oh what wit?  Just because your favorite stretch four is known more for his stretch marks than spreading the floor does not mean it does not happen.

Stevens tries to spread the floor.  It is well known, I suggest you do a google search.

It is becoming more and more clear that Sully does not fit in it...

Yawn, yet he's the starter even while his shot is struggling to epic proportions and is the big who's been playing the most this year.

But sure, let's take a comment that had nothing to do with Sullinger and make it one because you know, you have nothing better to do.

And because clearly Amir Johnson is a Stevens' type of guy (going by your definition) [this is sarcasm by the way].

And the great Zeller, what's happened to him... you know that quick center who can run up and down the floor, hit the mid range jumper and all that. What happened to that Stevens' kind of guy? Eating the bench last I heard or am I mistaken?

[hwangjini_1]

well, this thread sure degenerated in a hurry. 

back to derozen, i agree he brings skills similar, but better, than turner. derozen would be a scorer, which the team needs, but i am worried that without strong 3 point shooters around him, his skills and need for the ball might limit his contributions.

that is, for the money involved, can the the celtics realistically get a player better for the team?

[otherdave]

Batum is a horrid defender and a turnover machine. Derozan is a far superior basketball player.

I beg to differ. ESPN real defensive plus/minus has Batum rated 14th best shooting guard at plus  +.26, while Demar comes in at 66th out of 88 at negative - 1.84.

Batum is the better defender, better 3 point shooter, better fit for what Brad wants to do.  Good coaches set up a system that maximizes the players they currently have, but over time they try to bring in players that fit what they want to do, and Batum is the better fit long term.

You like Demar, I like Batum, if we are signing a max SG this summer.  I guess we can agree to disagree.  Heck I would be thrilled to get either one.  I would play Batum some at SF, can DD play at SF?

[Evantime34]

The answer is of course we should go after DeRozan.He fits our biggest need, a go to one on one scorer. A need that Danny Ainge specifically mentioned.

People seem to be confused on Brad Stevens system. Brad has always ran whatever best fit the personnel he has. If you don't agree then think about who has been in Boston and not fit because of the system.

His three point shooting is slightly concerning, but if he is on the court with 3 or 4 other 3 point shooters it minimizes this issue. A lineup of Thomas, DeRozan, Crowder, Amir and Kelly has plenty of spacing to allow DeRozan to work one on one without the opposing team being able to pack the paint.

The Raptors have a top 10 offense and  DeRozan is a driving factor behind this. Why wouldn't the c's be able to use a player that can help their offense like that?

As to someone saying he's not a max player. I guarantee he gets the max in free agency so I trust the market to determine whether he is a max player more than you.

[droopdog7]

I'm not giving a max contract to a non max player.  Recipe for disaster.

So a top 20 player entering his prime and still improving is not a max player?
Remember we aren't trading for the guy, we are using the enormous cap room we have.

I understand the reality.  There are only a handful of franchise players to go around.  But that to me is a max player.  Everyone else with max contracts is overpaid relative to the very best players in the league.

[Evantime34]

I'm not giving a max contract to a non max player.  Recipe for disaster.

So a top 20 player entering his prime and still improving is not a max player?
Remember we aren't trading for the guy, we are using the enormous cap room we have.

I understand the reality.  There are only a handful of franchise players to go around.  But that to me is a max player.  Everyone else with max contracts is overpaid relative to the very best players in the league.

The idea that only the franchise players deserve max deals is antiquated. Players are always worth what the market says they are.

Passing up a player of Derozans' caliber because he's not a franchise player will leave us with cap space we probably will never get to use.

[CelticSince83]

I'm not giving a max contract to a non max player.  Recipe for disaster.

So a top 20 player entering his prime and still improving is not a max player?
Remember we aren't trading for the guy, we are using the enormous cap room we have.

I understand the reality.  There are only a handful of franchise players to go around.  But that to me is a max player.  Everyone else with max contracts is overpaid relative to the very best players in the league.

The idea that only the franchise players deserve max deals is antiquated. Players are always worth what the market says they are.

Passing up a player of Derozans' caliber because he's not a franchise player will leave us with cap space we probably will never get to use.

Agreed.  The cap gives room for far more than 20 max deals, which for DD is good, because he's not a top 20 player.  I haven't ever really considered him a target, so I might have missed something, but is there any indication he might leave Toronto?

[PhoSita]

Derozan would be like a higher usage,  more talented version of Evan Turner. He's a skilled scorer but he doesn't fit this offense and his lack of outside shooting would be annoying.

Homer post.

Care to elaborate your ad hominem? 

Derozan is a nice player but he's a poor fit on a team that prizes spacing and versatility.

There is no guarantee that adding  a high usage non shooter to this team would really improve it that much. The Turner comparison is pertinent because he also makes exciting plays but often hurts the team with his poor shooting on the wing.

[saltlover]

Derozan would be like a higher usage,  more talented version of Evan Turner. He's a skilled scorer but he doesn't fit this offense and his lack of outside shooting would be annoying.

Homer post.

Care to elaborate your ad hominem? 

Derozan is a nice player but he's a poor fit on a team that prizes spacing and versatility.

There is no guarantee that adding  a high usage non shooter to this team would really improve it that much. The Turner comparison is pertinent because he also makes exciting plays but often hurts the team with his poor shooting on the wing.

Having a player who can penetrate the center of a defense greatly improves spacing.  It causes defenders who need to rotate to help, which then can create open shots on the outside.  When our offense is stagnant, it's because we have no one who can break down a defense, so we're just left passing around the perimeter and eventually taking a contested jumper.

Now, would it be better if said penetrator could also shoot 3's at least at an average clip?  Of course.  But he could fit just fine in this offense, and quite likely improve it.  It's not like DeRozan thinks he's a great shooter and chucks up 4-5 3's a game -- over 90% of his shots are taken inside the arc, with a good chunk at or near the rim.  He also gets to the line a ton, and makes over 80% of his free throws.

[nickagneta]

If Danny cleared the logjam at SG(Turner,  Bradley, Young, Hunter, at times Smart) and Derozan was the second piece we were adding, such as the first being Durant or Horford, then I wouldn't have a problem with the signing. But as a centerpiece of the off season, I wouldn't want Derozan. Just adding him to this currently constructed team would be a bad fit. This team needs shooters.

Now all that said, I see a lot of people stating that Derozan doesn't fit the system, but I don't see things that way. If we get a star or stars, it's going to have to be Stevens system that changes to maximize the abilities of his stars, not the stars adjusting to fit Stevens system.

[spikelovetheCelts]

If we are offering a max contract to a SG I think N Batum is a much better fit.  Better defense and better 3 point shot than Demar.

I agree with this. I hope we offer Drummond and make Detroit match.
Barnes to me also would be better to me.

[Tr1boy]

I like Derozan but prob not.  Not with Barnes either. No to Drummond. Drummond is like a pilon in the 4th quarter. Unlike a Tristant Thompson his gas runs out by the 4th

I think Danny should make a full use of the draft and draft the best available talent (emphasis drafting SFS) .  Or hybrid PF/SF, SG/SF

We got what 4 picks next season?  I would be surprised if one didn't end up becoming a real good SF for the celts club moving fwd.

I still really like Justin Jackson. Darkhorse SF

[PhoSita]

I agree with Nick. In a vacuum adding Derozan could make sense. But in the context of our current roster, it'd be a bad fit. This team already struggles due to lack of shooting at times. With Derozan out there you'd need to play small almost all of the time to make it work, and between him and Thomas I think the offense would end up devolving into guys watching Thomas and derozan free lancing.

Now, if we revamped the roster and derozan were the second or third piece next to a couple of even more dangerous scorers, that could maybe make sense.