Poll: Who says 'No'? ~~ PHI / BOS Trade Proposal

[cb8883]

Sixers would rightfully so hang up on the Celtics if they offered Fat Boy and Banks 2.0. Noel is an excellent prospect and a young player. If I was the Sixers I would use him as a piece to get an actual building block like Bradley Beal.

[max215]

Sixers would rightfully so hang up on the Celtics if they offered Fat Boy and Banks 2.0. Noel is an excellent prospect and a young player. If I was the Sixers I would use him as a piece to get an actual building block like Bradley Beal.

Very mature and insightful post.

[ssspence]

Another tidbit to this deal: bring two Boston locals back to the hub.

[Atzar]

I mean... it's pretty close to 'fair', I guess, but I don't see the point.  It looks very much like a lateral move in exchanging one promising-but-flawed young player for another.  IMO a trade either needs to be a win or it needs to have direction - either selling the present for the future or vice versa.  This is a future-for-future move and I don't see it as a win.

[ssspence]

IMO a trade either needs to be a win or it needs to have direction - either selling the present for the future or vice versa.  This is a future-for-future move and I don't see it as a win.

This just doesn't work -- very few trades are as clearcut as you suggest. One in ten might be about 'going all in' in either direction. To the contrary, Ainge is really good at winning the more subtle, incremental trades that continue the team in the right direction (and it's showing on the floor).

But more importantly: you don't buy that Noel would be an immediate upgrade at center? or that Covington would be an upgrade over Jerebko (behind Crowder)? I really don't see the in-and-out of this deal as in any way interchangeable, other than to generalize that Smart and Noel are both defense-first type players on rookie deals as a crutch to call it a wash.



 

[colincb]

Sullinger is a much better player than Noel by the numbers. Not even close. Noel is a 1 trick pony who doesn't rebound well and is an offensive liability. Sully's has a higher block% too!

http://bkref.com/tiny/Q75x3

Smart vs Covington is the 2nd part of the deal? I'll take Smart who is 4 years younger and a better defender. This sounds like the Hinkiephiles are puffing up their assets again to have to cheer themselves up about the future while hoping the Sixers continue to lose. Noel's should be the backup center on a team that may well be the worst ever, but the Sixers, having no players elsewhere, figured he could play PF. Unlike Sullinger, he cannot.

[ssspence]

Sullinger is a much better player than Noel by the numbers. Not even close. Noel is a 1 trick pony who doesn't rebound well and is an offensive liability. Sully's has a higher block% too!

http://bkref.com/tiny/Q75x3

Smart vs Covington is the 2nd part of the deal? I'll take Smart who is 4 years younger and a better defender. This sounds like the Hinkiephiles are puffing up their assets again to have to cheer themselves up about the future while hoping the Sixers continue to lose. Noel's should be the backup center on a team that may well be the worst ever, but the Sixers, having no players elsewhere, figured he could play PF. Unlike Sullinger, he cannot.

To steal a line from Tony Mazz, I don't care about the numbers. I really don't... we could go back and forth all day about whose are inflated and whose are hindered and on and on. Noel has the worst RPM in the league.     I     don't      care.

And I don't care about which guy is getting traded for which guy in a 4 person trade. It's simple: do you buy that Noel and Covington would be significantly improve the Celtics over the life of their careers in Boston instead of Sullinger (who I'd bet cash isn't going to be here at the beginning of 2016, and I guarantee you he won't at the beginning of 2017) and Smart?

[Vermont Green]

Sullinger is a much better player than Noel by the numbers. Not even close. Noel is a 1 trick pony who doesn't rebound well and is an offensive liability. Sully's has a higher block% too!

http://bkref.com/tiny/Q75x3

Smart vs Covington is the 2nd part of the deal? I'll take Smart who is 4 years younger and a better defender. This sounds like the Hinkiephiles are puffing up their assets again to have to cheer themselves up about the future while hoping the Sixers continue to lose. Noel's should be the backup center on a team that may well be the worst ever, but the Sixers, having no players elsewhere, figured he could play PF. Unlike Sullinger, he cannot.

To steal a line from Tony Mazz, I don't care about the numbers. I really don't... we could go back and forth all day about whose are inflated and whose are hindered and on and on. Noel has the worst RPM in the league.     I     don't      care.

And I don't care about which guy is getting traded for which guy in a 4 person trade. It's simple: do you buy that Noel and Covington would be significantly improve the Celtics over the life of their careers in Boston instead of Sullinger (who I'd bet cash isn't going to be here at the beginning of 2016, and I guarantee you he won't at the beginning of 2017) and Smart?

I wouldn't go as far as saying you can ignore numbers completely but I think what the numbers show is that so far, Sullinger and Noel are fairly equal players (Noel is still younger so I assume that his numbers would rise over the 2 years until he is 23 like Sullinger).  What intrigues me about Noel and makes him potentially more valuable to the Celtics is that I think he is more of a natural Center whereas I see Sullinger as a natural PF.  It is a better position fit in my opinion for the current Celtics roster.

In terms of adding Smart and Covington, I don't know much about Covington but I am assuming he is not all that good, maybe comparable to Jae Crowder?  Since I don't think we need another Jae Crowder and I don't like giving up Smart, I would not do this deal as stated.

I would be open to exploring a deal that starts with Sullinger and Noel but some other combination that does not include Marcus Smart.

[LarBrd33]

Sullinger is a much better player than Noel by the numbers. Not even close. Noel is a 1 trick pony who doesn't rebound well and is an offensive liability. Sully's has a higher block% too!

http://bkref.com/tiny/Q75x3

Smart vs Covington is the 2nd part of the deal? I'll take Smart who is 4 years younger and a better defender. This sounds like the Hinkiephiles are puffing up their assets again to have to cheer themselves up about the future while hoping the Sixers continue to lose. Noel's should be the backup center on a team that may well be the worst ever, but the Sixers, having no players elsewhere, figured he could play PF. Unlike Sullinger, he cannot.

To steal a line from Tony Mazz, I don't care about the numbers. I really don't... we could go back and forth all day about whose are inflated and whose are hindered and on and on. Noel has the worst RPM in the league.     I     don't      care.

And I don't care about which guy is getting traded for which guy in a 4 person trade. It's simple: do you buy that Noel and Covington would be significantly improve the Celtics over the life of their careers in Boston instead of Sullinger (who I'd bet cash isn't going to be here at the beginning of 2016, and I guarantee you he won't at the beginning of 2017) and Smart?

I wouldn't go as far as saying you can ignore numbers completely but I think what the numbers show is that so far, Sullinger and Noel are fairly equal players (Noel is still younger so I assume that his numbers would rise over the 2 years until he is 23 like Sullinger).  What intrigues me about Noel and makes him potentially more valuable to the Celtics is that I think he is more of a natural Center whereas I see Sullinger as a natural PF.  It is a better position fit in my opinion for the current Celtics roster.

In terms of adding Smart and Covington, I don't know much about Covington but I am assuming he is not all that good, maybe comparable to Jae Crowder?  Since I don't think we need another Jae Crowder and I don't like giving up Smart, I would not do this deal as stated.

I would be open to exploring a deal that starts with Sullinger and Noel but some other combination that does not include Marcus Smart.

The numbers this year might suggest that.  I throw out Noel's numbers this year for obvious reasons.  He's not playing his position.   

Selling high on Sully to buy low on Noel makes some sense.  We have to remind people of this all the time.  Teams don't trade guys when it's working.   You can't acquire Steph Curry when he's having an MVP season.  But when Steph Curry is coming off a bad ankle injury and struggling to average 15 points... maybe you can snag him.    The only reason trade ideas like this are even plausible is because Noel is playing so poorly.   

[ssspence]

I wouldn't go as far as saying you can ignore numbers completely but I think what the numbers show is that so far, Sullinger and Noel are fairly equal players.

Seriously, who cares? What you'll have to actually watch them play to analyze is that their games have zero in common. They really have nothing to do with each other as players.

Meanwhile, if you believe like I do (for better or for worse) that Celtics management loves Olynyk and will exhaust every opportunity to turn him into an All-Star caliber player, then you better ask yourself who's a better fit to play along side him.

At the end of the day, what amuses me is the comparison between Noel and Sully, when Sully is the sweetener in the deal, not the drink (that's Smart). Sully's trade value is pretty minimal.

[slightly biased bias fan]

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=hjqsayw

A much more balanced trade with a first included to Philly and a couple of seconds to Phnx.

[Celtics18]

Sullinger is a much better player than Noel by the numbers. Not even close. Noel is a 1 trick pony who doesn't rebound well and is an offensive liability. Sully's has a higher block% too!

http://bkref.com/tiny/Q75x3

Smart vs Covington is the 2nd part of the deal? I'll take Smart who is 4 years younger and a better defender. This sounds like the Hinkiephiles are puffing up their assets again to have to cheer themselves up about the future while hoping the Sixers continue to lose. Noel's should be the backup center on a team that may well be the worst ever, but the Sixers, having no players elsewhere, figured he could play PF. Unlike Sullinger, he cannot.

I think Smart and Noel would be the centerpieces of that deal.  Covington and Sully would be the secondaries. 

[ssspence]

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=hjqsayw

A much more balanced trade with a first included to Philly and a couple of seconds to Phnx.

Strong deal for everyone, except for Philly and PHX 

The reality is the original proposal in this thread is pretty balanced. Whether you see it as leaning one way or another is really a function of whether you prefer to roll the dice on Smart or Noel.