Happy trails to Hinkie's Power.

[LarBrd33]

How about a little exercise...   

Forget about Philly's top assets for a moment (Embiid, Saric, Noel, Okafor, 2016 top 5, 2016/17 top 5 via Lakers) ...  Obviously there's disagreement (though I'd argue their two best assets are better than our two best assets)

FOrget about Philly's middle tier assets like Stauskas, Covington, Wroten, Grant, Thompson, Sampson, etc...   Obviously there's some disagreement  (though I'd argue they at-worst are comparable with our Rozier, Hunter, Mickey and Young assets).

Let's also forget about their 60 million in cap space and the relative ease they could sign Jerekbo, Bass, Lee, Turner-level talent. 

Instead... let's focus on one tiny aspect of their assets.  Miami's Top 10 protected pick and Oklahoma's top 15 protected pick.   Right now, those two picks project to be #24 and #26...

Let's get an honest opinion here.   Take a look at Boston's entire roster.  It's deep, but there's a gluttony of Power forwards.  Lots of parity and mediocrity. 

Someone other than me please list off all the players you would honestly dump on Philly right now for one of those late 1sts they own from Miami/OKC.    In previous years, we dumped guys like Jeff Green for one of those picks.  Last year, we acquired Isaiah Thomas for Cleveland's 2016 pick....   Let's get an honest opinion about the value of those two late 1sts.   Remember, philly has cap space to swallow salary... who would you honestly move right now for ONE of those picks?   Let's see how deep that list is.    Bonus points:  What players would you move for BOTH of those picks? 

[GreenFaith1819]

Good. Gives them some direction.

I'm guessing that the Okafor thing FINALLY got the league's attention.

[ssspence]

How about a little exercise...   

Forget about Philly's top assets for a moment (Embiid, Saric, Noel, Okafor, 2016 top 5, 2016/17 top 5 via Lakers) ...  Obviously there's disagreement (though I'd argue their two best assets are better than our two best assets)

FOrget about Philly's middle tier assets like Stauskas, Covington, Wroten, Grant, Thompson, Sampson, etc...   Obviously there's some disagreement  (though I'd argue they at-worst are comparable with our Rozier, Hunter, Mickey and Young assets).

Let's also forget about their 60 million in cap space and the relative ease they could sign Jerekbo, Bass, Lee, Turner-level talent. 

Instead... let's focus on one tiny aspect of their assets.  Miami's Top 10 protected pick and Oklahoma's top 15 protected pick.   Right now, those two picks project to be #24 and #26...

Let's get an honest opinion here.   Take a look at Boston's entire roster.  It's deep, but there's a gluttony of Power forwards.  Lots of parity and mediocrity. 

Someone other than me please list off all the players you would honestly dump on Philly right now for one of those late 1sts they own from Miami/OKC.    In previous years, we dumped guys like Jeff Green for one of those picks.  Last year, we acquired Isaiah Thomas for Cleveland's 2016 pick....   Let's get an honest opinion about the value of those two late 1sts.   Remember, philly has cap space to swallow salary... who would you honestly move right now for ONE of those picks?   Let's see how deep that list is.    Bonus points:  What players would you move for BOTH of those picks?

Obvious:

Zeller
Turner
Jerebko
Lee

Debatable:

Rozier -- Not buying him. I think he's an Ainge whiff. His handle's not NBA quality.
Young -- Something about him makes me believe we shouldn't give up. Probably keep him.

In other words, not many who they'd realistically consider. Because at some point our "asset pool" becomes problematic. Other GMs (will) know that Ainge can't have a roster of 15 rookie scale deals, and will low ball him in offers for those picks at a later date.

[celticsclay]

How about a little exercise...   

Forget about Philly's top assets for a moment (Embiid, Saric, Noel, Okafor, 2016 top 5, 2016/17 top 5 via Lakers) ...  Obviously there's disagreement (though I'd argue their two best assets are better than our two best assets)

FOrget about Philly's middle tier assets like Stauskas, Covington, Wroten, Grant, Thompson, Sampson, etc...   Obviously there's some disagreement  (though I'd argue they at-worst are comparable with our Rozier, Hunter, Mickey and Young assets).

Let's also forget about their 60 million in cap space and the relative ease they could sign Jerekbo, Bass, Lee, Turner-level talent. 

Instead... let's focus on one tiny aspect of their assets.  Miami's Top 10 protected pick and Oklahoma's top 15 protected pick.   Right now, those two picks project to be #24 and #26...

Let's get an honest opinion here.   Take a look at Boston's entire roster.  It's deep, but there's a gluttony of Power forwards.  Lots of parity and mediocrity. 

Someone other than me please list off all the players you would honestly dump on Philly right now for one of those late 1sts they own from Miami/OKC.    In previous years, we dumped guys like Jeff Green for one of those picks.  Last year, we acquired Isaiah Thomas for Cleveland's 2016 pick....   Let's get an honest opinion about the value of those two late 1sts.   Remember, philly has cap space to swallow salary... who would you honestly move right now for ONE of those picks?   Let's see how deep that list is.    Bonus points:  What players would you move for BOTH of those picks?

I really wouldn't trade anyone other than Jerekbro or Lee for another end of round first round pick (24 or 26). What would be the point? We already have to trade some our own first round round picks cause we have to money. A lot of teams people can buy picks at the end of the first round (happens every year) cause they dont want to tie up 3 years in a prospect that is a borderline prospect. It has been said by countless executives they would rather have early seconds. You follow basketball daily, how do you not understand this?

[LarBrd33]

How about a little exercise...   

Forget about Philly's top assets for a moment (Embiid, Saric, Noel, Okafor, 2016 top 5, 2016/17 top 5 via Lakers) ...  Obviously there's disagreement (though I'd argue their two best assets are better than our two best assets)

FOrget about Philly's middle tier assets like Stauskas, Covington, Wroten, Grant, Thompson, Sampson, etc...   Obviously there's some disagreement  (though I'd argue they at-worst are comparable with our Rozier, Hunter, Mickey and Young assets).

Let's also forget about their 60 million in cap space and the relative ease they could sign Jerekbo, Bass, Lee, Turner-level talent. 

Instead... let's focus on one tiny aspect of their assets.  Miami's Top 10 protected pick and Oklahoma's top 15 protected pick.   Right now, those two picks project to be #24 and #26...

Let's get an honest opinion here.   Take a look at Boston's entire roster.  It's deep, but there's a gluttony of Power forwards.  Lots of parity and mediocrity. 

Someone other than me please list off all the players you would honestly dump on Philly right now for one of those late 1sts they own from Miami/OKC.    In previous years, we dumped guys like Jeff Green for one of those picks.  Last year, we acquired Isaiah Thomas for Cleveland's 2016 pick....   Let's get an honest opinion about the value of those two late 1sts.   Remember, philly has cap space to swallow salary... who would you honestly move right now for ONE of those picks?   Let's see how deep that list is.    Bonus points:  What players would you move for BOTH of those picks?

Obvious:

Zeller
Turner
Jerebko
Lee

Debatable:

Rozier -- Not buying him. I think he's an Ainge whiff. His handle's not NBA quality.
Young -- Something about him makes me believe we shouldn't give up. Probably keep him.

In other words, not many who they'd realistically consider.

So just based on your conservative list alone, they could add arguably our two best players during our run last year (Zeller and Turner)... Zeller had the best defensive rating, the best +/- and the second highest PER on the team (19)... Turner spent the second half of the season averaging 11 points, 7 assists and 6 rebounds and 1.2 steals.... Both of those guys started every game for us during the second half of the season.  They both started for us in every playoff game.   They are both established NBA talent... and Philly (according to this conservative estimate) could have them both instantly while giving up NONE of their most significant assets. 

Think about it, people.   

It would not be hard for a competent GM to turn Philly around.   I'm not wrong on this.  Whether or not they succeed is another question entirely.  But they have the assets.

[MBunge]

How about a little exercise...   

Forget about Philly's top assets for a moment (Embiid, Saric, Noel, Okafor, 2016 top 5, 2016/17 top 5 via Lakers) ...  Obviously there's disagreement (though I'd argue their two best assets are better than our two best assets)

FOrget about Philly's middle tier assets like Stauskas, Covington, Wroten, Grant, Thompson, Sampson, etc...   Obviously there's some disagreement  (though I'd argue they at-worst are comparable with our Rozier, Hunter, Mickey and Young assets).

Let's also forget about their 60 million in cap space and the relative ease they could sign Jerekbo, Bass, Lee, Turner-level talent. 

Instead... let's focus on one tiny aspect of their assets.  Miami's Top 10 protected pick and Oklahoma's top 15 protected pick.   Right now, those two picks project to be #24 and #26...

Let's get an honest opinion here.   Take a look at Boston's entire roster.  It's deep, but there's a gluttony of Power forwards.  Lots of parity and mediocrity. 

Someone list off all the players you would honestly gladly dump on Philly right now for one of those late 1sts they own from Miami/OKC.    In previous years, we dumped guys like Jeff Green for one of those picks.  Last year, we acquired Isaiah Thomas for Cleveland's 2016 pick....   Let's get an honest opinion about the value of those two late 1sts.   Remember, philly has cap space to swallow salary... who would you honestly move right now for ONE of those picks?   Let's see how deep that list is.    Bonus points:  What players would you move for BOTH of those picks?

Coming into the last draft, Dustin Chapman put together a post that looked at the last 20 years of late first round draft picks.  The post is here, http://www.celticsblog.com/2015/5/24/8652941/a-look-at-late-first-round-nba-draft-picks-of-the-last-20-years, but this is what he found for the two picks you mention.

24TH OVERALL PICK
Accumulative Stats (Last 20 #24 Overall Picks): 9.1 PPG - 3.5 RPG - 2.4 APG
All-Stars: 2 - Andrei Kirilenko (1), Kyle Lowry (1)


26TH OVERALL PICK
Accumulative Stats (Last 20 #26 Overall Picks): 8.8 PPG - 4.1 RPG - 1.6 APG
All-Stars: 0

So, no one with a brain would trade Smart, Bradley, Turner, Sully, KO, Crowder or IT for either or both of those picks.  Probably also wouldn't trade Young, Jerebko, Zeller or Rozier.  Might trade RJ, Mickey or Zeller but only if Ainge and Stevens are unhappy with them.

So, basically, the only players Boston would likely trade for those picks would be Lee or Amir and that would only be due to them being older veterans who are unlikely to stick around long term.  Both have been and are better than the players we'd be likely to get at either of those spots.

Oh, I forgot.  Those are Philly's picks so they magically become massively more valuable in your eyes.

Mike

[LarBrd33]

How about a little exercise...   

Forget about Philly's top assets for a moment (Embiid, Saric, Noel, Okafor, 2016 top 5, 2016/17 top 5 via Lakers) ...  Obviously there's disagreement (though I'd argue their two best assets are better than our two best assets)

FOrget about Philly's middle tier assets like Stauskas, Covington, Wroten, Grant, Thompson, Sampson, etc...   Obviously there's some disagreement  (though I'd argue they at-worst are comparable with our Rozier, Hunter, Mickey and Young assets).

Let's also forget about their 60 million in cap space and the relative ease they could sign Jerekbo, Bass, Lee, Turner-level talent. 

Instead... let's focus on one tiny aspect of their assets.  Miami's Top 10 protected pick and Oklahoma's top 15 protected pick.   Right now, those two picks project to be #24 and #26...

Let's get an honest opinion here.   Take a look at Boston's entire roster.  It's deep, but there's a gluttony of Power forwards.  Lots of parity and mediocrity. 

Someone list off all the players you would honestly gladly dump on Philly right now for one of those late 1sts they own from Miami/OKC.    In previous years, we dumped guys like Jeff Green for one of those picks.  Last year, we acquired Isaiah Thomas for Cleveland's 2016 pick....   Let's get an honest opinion about the value of those two late 1sts.   Remember, philly has cap space to swallow salary... who would you honestly move right now for ONE of those picks?   Let's see how deep that list is.    Bonus points:  What players would you move for BOTH of those picks?

Coming into the last draft, Dustin Chapman put together a post that looked at the last 20 years of late first round draft picks.  The post is here, http://www.celticsblog.com/2015/5/24/8652941/a-look-at-late-first-round-nba-draft-picks-of-the-last-20-years, but this is what he found for the two picks you mention.

24TH OVERALL PICK
Accumulative Stats (Last 20 #24 Overall Picks): 9.1 PPG - 3.5 RPG - 2.4 APG
All-Stars: 2 - Andrei Kirilenko (1), Kyle Lowry (1)


26TH OVERALL PICK
Accumulative Stats (Last 20 #26 Overall Picks): 8.8 PPG - 4.1 RPG - 1.6 APG
All-Stars: 0

So, no one with a brain would trade Smart, Bradley, Turner, Sully, KO, Crowder or IT for either or both of those picks.  Probably also wouldn't trade Young, Jerebko, Zeller or Rozier.  Might trade RJ, Mickey or Zeller but only if Ainge and Stevens are unhappy with them.

So, basically, the only players Boston would likely trade for those picks would be Lee or Amir and that would only be due to them being older veterans who are unlikely to stick around long term.  Both have been and are better than the players we'd be likely to get at either of those spots.

Oh, I forgot.  Those are Philly's picks so they magically become massively more valuable in your eyes.

Mike

Completely false.  This response is entirely off base.  Try again.   In recent Boston Celtic history alone, we've seen Boston both trade away higher caliber players than the ones you're listing (Jeff Green, Rajon Rondo) for late 1sts... as well as acquire higher caliber players than the ones you're listing (Isaiah Thomas). 

You underestimate the value of removing extra unneeded vets for 1st round picks.   Come on... we've been following this league for years.  You haven't seen a veteran traded for a late 1st before?   As recently as last year we were desperate to trade Brandon Bass for one.   

[cb8883]

I'd take him in Boston. At least he has a plan. What exactly is Ainge's besides run the treadmill and pray for a FA that will not occur. The Celtics should have followed suit. Imagine what it would have been like if we had just tanked a few seasons. It's a pipe dream but he's going to get another crack. Philadelphia fans are impatient and can't see the final picture. They will give him a parade when Ben Simmons is suiting up opening night.

[Emmette Bryant]

http://www.si.com/nba/2015/12/08/nba-owners-pressure-adam-silver-philadelphia-76ers-jerry-colangelo

[max215]

How about a little exercise...   

Forget about Philly's top assets for a moment (Embiid, Saric, Noel, Okafor, 2016 top 5, 2016/17 top 5 via Lakers) ...  Obviously there's disagreement (though I'd argue their two best assets are better than our two best assets)

FOrget about Philly's middle tier assets like Stauskas, Covington, Wroten, Grant, Thompson, Sampson, etc...   Obviously there's some disagreement  (though I'd argue they at-worst are comparable with our Rozier, Hunter, Mickey and Young assets).

Let's also forget about their 60 million in cap space and the relative ease they could sign Jerekbo, Bass, Lee, Turner-level talent. 

Instead... let's focus on one tiny aspect of their assets.  Miami's Top 10 protected pick and Oklahoma's top 15 protected pick.   Right now, those two picks project to be #24 and #26...

Let's get an honest opinion here.   Take a look at Boston's entire roster.  It's deep, but there's a gluttony of Power forwards.  Lots of parity and mediocrity. 

Someone list off all the players you would honestly gladly dump on Philly right now for one of those late 1sts they own from Miami/OKC.    In previous years, we dumped guys like Jeff Green for one of those picks.  Last year, we acquired Isaiah Thomas for Cleveland's 2016 pick....   Let's get an honest opinion about the value of those two late 1sts.   Remember, philly has cap space to swallow salary... who would you honestly move right now for ONE of those picks?   Let's see how deep that list is.    Bonus points:  What players would you move for BOTH of those picks?

Coming into the last draft, Dustin Chapman put together a post that looked at the last 20 years of late first round draft picks.  The post is here, http://www.celticsblog.com/2015/5/24/8652941/a-look-at-late-first-round-nba-draft-picks-of-the-last-20-years, but this is what he found for the two picks you mention.

24TH OVERALL PICK
Accumulative Stats (Last 20 #24 Overall Picks): 9.1 PPG - 3.5 RPG - 2.4 APG
All-Stars: 2 - Andrei Kirilenko (1), Kyle Lowry (1)


26TH OVERALL PICK
Accumulative Stats (Last 20 #26 Overall Picks): 8.8 PPG - 4.1 RPG - 1.6 APG
All-Stars: 0

So, no one with a brain would trade Smart, Bradley, Turner, Sully, KO, Crowder or IT for either or both of those picks.  Probably also wouldn't trade Young, Jerebko, Zeller or Rozier.  Might trade RJ, Mickey or Zeller but only if Ainge and Stevens are unhappy with them.

So, basically, the only players Boston would likely trade for those picks would be Lee or Amir and that would only be due to them being older veterans who are unlikely to stick around long term.  Both have been and are better than the players we'd be likely to get at either of those spots.

Oh, I forgot.  Those are Philly's picks so they magically become massively more valuable in your eyes.

Mike

Completely false.  This response is entirely off base.  Try again.   In recent Boston Celtic history alone, we've seen Boston both trade away higher caliber players than the ones you're listing (Jeff Green, Rajon Rondo) for late 1sts... as well as acquire higher caliber players than the ones you're listing (Isaiah Thomas). 

You underestimate the value of removing extra unneeded vets for 1st round picks.   Come on... we've been following this league for years.  You haven't seen a veteran traded for a late 1st before?   As recently as last year we were desperate to trade Brandon Bass for one.

Did you actually just refer to a Memphis pick that won't convey until 2018 AT THE EARLIEST as a 'late first'? You can't be serious.

[LarBrd33]

How about a little exercise...   

Forget about Philly's top assets for a moment (Embiid, Saric, Noel, Okafor, 2016 top 5, 2016/17 top 5 via Lakers) ...  Obviously there's disagreement (though I'd argue their two best assets are better than our two best assets)

FOrget about Philly's middle tier assets like Stauskas, Covington, Wroten, Grant, Thompson, Sampson, etc...   Obviously there's some disagreement  (though I'd argue they at-worst are comparable with our Rozier, Hunter, Mickey and Young assets).

Let's also forget about their 60 million in cap space and the relative ease they could sign Jerekbo, Bass, Lee, Turner-level talent. 

Instead... let's focus on one tiny aspect of their assets.  Miami's Top 10 protected pick and Oklahoma's top 15 protected pick.   Right now, those two picks project to be #24 and #26...

Let's get an honest opinion here.   Take a look at Boston's entire roster.  It's deep, but there's a gluttony of Power forwards.  Lots of parity and mediocrity. 

Someone list off all the players you would honestly gladly dump on Philly right now for one of those late 1sts they own from Miami/OKC.    In previous years, we dumped guys like Jeff Green for one of those picks.  Last year, we acquired Isaiah Thomas for Cleveland's 2016 pick....   Let's get an honest opinion about the value of those two late 1sts.   Remember, philly has cap space to swallow salary... who would you honestly move right now for ONE of those picks?   Let's see how deep that list is.    Bonus points:  What players would you move for BOTH of those picks?

Coming into the last draft, Dustin Chapman put together a post that looked at the last 20 years of late first round draft picks.  The post is here, http://www.celticsblog.com/2015/5/24/8652941/a-look-at-late-first-round-nba-draft-picks-of-the-last-20-years, but this is what he found for the two picks you mention.

24TH OVERALL PICK
Accumulative Stats (Last 20 #24 Overall Picks): 9.1 PPG - 3.5 RPG - 2.4 APG
All-Stars: 2 - Andrei Kirilenko (1), Kyle Lowry (1)


26TH OVERALL PICK
Accumulative Stats (Last 20 #26 Overall Picks): 8.8 PPG - 4.1 RPG - 1.6 APG
All-Stars: 0

So, no one with a brain would trade Smart, Bradley, Turner, Sully, KO, Crowder or IT for either or both of those picks.  Probably also wouldn't trade Young, Jerebko, Zeller or Rozier.  Might trade RJ, Mickey or Zeller but only if Ainge and Stevens are unhappy with them.

So, basically, the only players Boston would likely trade for those picks would be Lee or Amir and that would only be due to them being older veterans who are unlikely to stick around long term.  Both have been and are better than the players we'd be likely to get at either of those spots.

Oh, I forgot.  Those are Philly's picks so they magically become massively more valuable in your eyes.

Mike

Completely false.  This response is entirely off base.  Try again.   In recent Boston Celtic history alone, we've seen Boston both trade away higher caliber players than the ones you're listing (Jeff Green, Rajon Rondo) for late 1sts... as well as acquire higher caliber players than the ones you're listing (Isaiah Thomas). 

You underestimate the value of removing extra unneeded vets for 1st round picks.   Come on... we've been following this league for years.  You haven't seen a veteran traded for a late 1st before?   As recently as last year we were desperate to trade Brandon Bass for one.

Did you actually just refer to a Memphis pick that won't convey until 2018 AT THE EARLIEST as a 'late first'? You can't be serious.

Does a top 12 protected 2018 Memphis pick have more value than a top 10 protected 2016 Miami pick?   That's interesting.  Ya'll know that Miami is basically in a 10-way tie for 1st-10th...  That pick could certainly end up in the teens.  You think it inherently has less trade value than a Top 12 protected 2018 Memphis pick?    ... You mean you'd rather gamble on a Top 12 pick from Memphis that can't convey until 2018 at the earliest... instead of taking a top 10 protected Miami pick this year?   That sounds downright Hinkie-esque!

I think I've sufficiently made my point.  People can disagree with me.  It's fine.   Philly has options, though.  Lots and lots of options.  Should be interesting to see what they do.

[celticsclay]

Larbrd on a slowly sinking titanic: Guys I'm not wrong! This ship has metal that is really valuable. If we ride this out we will have tons of options

[MBunge]

How about a little exercise...   

Forget about Philly's top assets for a moment (Embiid, Saric, Noel, Okafor, 2016 top 5, 2016/17 top 5 via Lakers) ...  Obviously there's disagreement (though I'd argue their two best assets are better than our two best assets)

FOrget about Philly's middle tier assets like Stauskas, Covington, Wroten, Grant, Thompson, Sampson, etc...   Obviously there's some disagreement  (though I'd argue they at-worst are comparable with our Rozier, Hunter, Mickey and Young assets).

Let's also forget about their 60 million in cap space and the relative ease they could sign Jerekbo, Bass, Lee, Turner-level talent. 

Instead... let's focus on one tiny aspect of their assets.  Miami's Top 10 protected pick and Oklahoma's top 15 protected pick.   Right now, those two picks project to be #24 and #26...

Let's get an honest opinion here.   Take a look at Boston's entire roster.  It's deep, but there's a gluttony of Power forwards.  Lots of parity and mediocrity. 

Someone list off all the players you would honestly gladly dump on Philly right now for one of those late 1sts they own from Miami/OKC.    In previous years, we dumped guys like Jeff Green for one of those picks.  Last year, we acquired Isaiah Thomas for Cleveland's 2016 pick....   Let's get an honest opinion about the value of those two late 1sts.   Remember, philly has cap space to swallow salary... who would you honestly move right now for ONE of those picks?   Let's see how deep that list is.    Bonus points:  What players would you move for BOTH of those picks?

Coming into the last draft, Dustin Chapman put together a post that looked at the last 20 years of late first round draft picks.  The post is here, http://www.celticsblog.com/2015/5/24/8652941/a-look-at-late-first-round-nba-draft-picks-of-the-last-20-years, but this is what he found for the two picks you mention.

24TH OVERALL PICK
Accumulative Stats (Last 20 #24 Overall Picks): 9.1 PPG - 3.5 RPG - 2.4 APG
All-Stars: 2 - Andrei Kirilenko (1), Kyle Lowry (1)


26TH OVERALL PICK
Accumulative Stats (Last 20 #26 Overall Picks): 8.8 PPG - 4.1 RPG - 1.6 APG
All-Stars: 0

So, no one with a brain would trade Smart, Bradley, Turner, Sully, KO, Crowder or IT for either or both of those picks.  Probably also wouldn't trade Young, Jerebko, Zeller or Rozier.  Might trade RJ, Mickey or Zeller but only if Ainge and Stevens are unhappy with them.

So, basically, the only players Boston would likely trade for those picks would be Lee or Amir and that would only be due to them being older veterans who are unlikely to stick around long term.  Both have been and are better than the players we'd be likely to get at either of those spots.

Oh, I forgot.  Those are Philly's picks so they magically become massively more valuable in your eyes.

Mike

Completely false.  This response is entirely off base.  Try again.   In recent Boston Celtic history alone, we've seen Boston both trade away higher caliber players than the ones you're listing (Jeff Green, Rajon Rondo) for late 1sts... as well as acquire higher caliber players than the ones you're listing (Isaiah Thomas). 

You underestimate the value of removing extra unneeded vets for 1st round picks.   Come on... we've been following this league for years.  You haven't seen a veteran traded for a late 1st before?   As recently as last year we were desperate to trade Brandon Bass for one.

Oh, give me a break.  I just pointed out you are radically overvaluing draft picks in that range.  Your example of swapping unneeded vets for late first round picks does not apply to the vast majority of Boston's roster.

Again, Smart, Bradley, Turner, Sully, KO and IT are way better than any player you are likely to get with those picks.  Young and Rozier are hardly unneeded vets, a legitimate backup center like Zeller is worth more and since Jerebko is essentially an expiring deal, there's no reason to move him.  And if you are happy with cheap young players like RJ and Mickey, why throw them away for picks who likely won't be any better than the 9th man in a rotation?

Lee and Amir have no real future here so unloading them for a couple of long shot lottery tickets makes some sense, but that's it.

Keep trying.

Mike

[LarBrd33]

How about a little exercise...   

Forget about Philly's top assets for a moment (Embiid, Saric, Noel, Okafor, 2016 top 5, 2016/17 top 5 via Lakers) ...  Obviously there's disagreement (though I'd argue their two best assets are better than our two best assets)

FOrget about Philly's middle tier assets like Stauskas, Covington, Wroten, Grant, Thompson, Sampson, etc...   Obviously there's some disagreement  (though I'd argue they at-worst are comparable with our Rozier, Hunter, Mickey and Young assets).

Let's also forget about their 60 million in cap space and the relative ease they could sign Jerekbo, Bass, Lee, Turner-level talent. 

Instead... let's focus on one tiny aspect of their assets.  Miami's Top 10 protected pick and Oklahoma's top 15 protected pick.   Right now, those two picks project to be #24 and #26...

Let's get an honest opinion here.   Take a look at Boston's entire roster.  It's deep, but there's a gluttony of Power forwards.  Lots of parity and mediocrity. 

Someone list off all the players you would honestly gladly dump on Philly right now for one of those late 1sts they own from Miami/OKC.    In previous years, we dumped guys like Jeff Green for one of those picks.  Last year, we acquired Isaiah Thomas for Cleveland's 2016 pick....   Let's get an honest opinion about the value of those two late 1sts.   Remember, philly has cap space to swallow salary... who would you honestly move right now for ONE of those picks?   Let's see how deep that list is.    Bonus points:  What players would you move for BOTH of those picks?

Coming into the last draft, Dustin Chapman put together a post that looked at the last 20 years of late first round draft picks.  The post is here, http://www.celticsblog.com/2015/5/24/8652941/a-look-at-late-first-round-nba-draft-picks-of-the-last-20-years, but this is what he found for the two picks you mention.

24TH OVERALL PICK
Accumulative Stats (Last 20 #24 Overall Picks): 9.1 PPG - 3.5 RPG - 2.4 APG
All-Stars: 2 - Andrei Kirilenko (1), Kyle Lowry (1)


26TH OVERALL PICK
Accumulative Stats (Last 20 #26 Overall Picks): 8.8 PPG - 4.1 RPG - 1.6 APG
All-Stars: 0

So, no one with a brain would trade Smart, Bradley, Turner, Sully, KO, Crowder or IT for either or both of those picks.  Probably also wouldn't trade Young, Jerebko, Zeller or Rozier.  Might trade RJ, Mickey or Zeller but only if Ainge and Stevens are unhappy with them.

So, basically, the only players Boston would likely trade for those picks would be Lee or Amir and that would only be due to them being older veterans who are unlikely to stick around long term.  Both have been and are better than the players we'd be likely to get at either of those spots.

Oh, I forgot.  Those are Philly's picks so they magically become massively more valuable in your eyes.

Mike

Completely false.  This response is entirely off base.  Try again.   In recent Boston Celtic history alone, we've seen Boston both trade away higher caliber players than the ones you're listing (Jeff Green, Rajon Rondo) for late 1sts... as well as acquire higher caliber players than the ones you're listing (Isaiah Thomas). 

You underestimate the value of removing extra unneeded vets for 1st round picks.   Come on... we've been following this league for years.  You haven't seen a veteran traded for a late 1st before?   As recently as last year we were desperate to trade Brandon Bass for one.

Again, Smart, Bradley, Turner, Sully, KO and IT are way better than any player you are likely to get with those picks. 

And again, we literally got IT last season with a worse pick than either of those two Philly own. 

Combining a bunch of late picks for a superstar is unlikely... but if we're talking about adding some veteran depth using them... they absolutely can.  These are all things they'll have to address this summer.  It will depend on what they perceive their holes to be.  Right now, the roster isn't set up with the intention of winning games... so it doesn't matter.

We got Hunter with the #28 pick.  I'm sure if we really wanted to, and had the cap space to do it, we could dump him for Brandon Bass right now.

[max215]

How about a little exercise...   

Forget about Philly's top assets for a moment (Embiid, Saric, Noel, Okafor, 2016 top 5, 2016/17 top 5 via Lakers) ...  Obviously there's disagreement (though I'd argue their two best assets are better than our two best assets)

FOrget about Philly's middle tier assets like Stauskas, Covington, Wroten, Grant, Thompson, Sampson, etc...   Obviously there's some disagreement  (though I'd argue they at-worst are comparable with our Rozier, Hunter, Mickey and Young assets).

Let's also forget about their 60 million in cap space and the relative ease they could sign Jerekbo, Bass, Lee, Turner-level talent. 

Instead... let's focus on one tiny aspect of their assets.  Miami's Top 10 protected pick and Oklahoma's top 15 protected pick.   Right now, those two picks project to be #24 and #26...

Let's get an honest opinion here.   Take a look at Boston's entire roster.  It's deep, but there's a gluttony of Power forwards.  Lots of parity and mediocrity. 

Someone list off all the players you would honestly gladly dump on Philly right now for one of those late 1sts they own from Miami/OKC.    In previous years, we dumped guys like Jeff Green for one of those picks.  Last year, we acquired Isaiah Thomas for Cleveland's 2016 pick....   Let's get an honest opinion about the value of those two late 1sts.   Remember, philly has cap space to swallow salary... who would you honestly move right now for ONE of those picks?   Let's see how deep that list is.    Bonus points:  What players would you move for BOTH of those picks?

Coming into the last draft, Dustin Chapman put together a post that looked at the last 20 years of late first round draft picks.  The post is here, http://www.celticsblog.com/2015/5/24/8652941/a-look-at-late-first-round-nba-draft-picks-of-the-last-20-years, but this is what he found for the two picks you mention.

24TH OVERALL PICK
Accumulative Stats (Last 20 #24 Overall Picks): 9.1 PPG - 3.5 RPG - 2.4 APG
All-Stars: 2 - Andrei Kirilenko (1), Kyle Lowry (1)


26TH OVERALL PICK
Accumulative Stats (Last 20 #26 Overall Picks): 8.8 PPG - 4.1 RPG - 1.6 APG
All-Stars: 0

So, no one with a brain would trade Smart, Bradley, Turner, Sully, KO, Crowder or IT for either or both of those picks.  Probably also wouldn't trade Young, Jerebko, Zeller or Rozier.  Might trade RJ, Mickey or Zeller but only if Ainge and Stevens are unhappy with them.

So, basically, the only players Boston would likely trade for those picks would be Lee or Amir and that would only be due to them being older veterans who are unlikely to stick around long term.  Both have been and are better than the players we'd be likely to get at either of those spots.

Oh, I forgot.  Those are Philly's picks so they magically become massively more valuable in your eyes.

Mike

Completely false.  This response is entirely off base.  Try again.   In recent Boston Celtic history alone, we've seen Boston both trade away higher caliber players than the ones you're listing (Jeff Green, Rajon Rondo) for late 1sts... as well as acquire higher caliber players than the ones you're listing (Isaiah Thomas). 

You underestimate the value of removing extra unneeded vets for 1st round picks.   Come on... we've been following this league for years.  You haven't seen a veteran traded for a late 1st before?   As recently as last year we were desperate to trade Brandon Bass for one.

Did you actually just refer to a Memphis pick that won't convey until 2018 AT THE EARLIEST as a 'late first'? You can't be serious.

Does a top 12 protected 2018 Memphis pick have more value than a top 10 protected 2016 Miami pick?   That's interesting.  Ya'll know that Miami is basically in a 10-way tie for 1st-10th...  That pick could certainly end up in the teens.  You think it inherently has less trade value than a Top 12 protected 2018 Memphis pick?    ... You mean you'd rather gamble on a Top 12 pick from Memphis that can't convey until 2018 at the earliest... instead of taking a top 10 protected Miami pick this year?   That sounds downright Hinkie-esque!

I think I've sufficiently made my point.  People can disagree with me.  It's fine.   Philly has options, though.  Lots and lots of options.  Should be interesting to see what they do.

My point was that it's insane to try and project where that pick will fall at least 3 years from now, and calling it a 'late first' allows you to pretend like decent players are given away for free in this league.