No disgruntled stars, no players in KG like situation. Danny stuck?

[Monkhouse]

I ...think ....rather know .....Cousins , Davis and Durrant are all going somewhere different ...if they expect to win a title. 

What makes you say that?

I can't speak for Cousins, but if I were a man who has gone through the past 5 years or so with (what may well be) the most immature and disorganized franchise in all professional sports, the first thing I'd want is to go somewhere with stability and a wining culture, and one that can convince me that I am the missing piece to becoming a contender.

In Boston I think all of that is true.  We are a playoff caliber team without Cousins - with him we'd be an immediate contender, and adding him via a trade before the end of the season would immediately increase our chance of signing additional quality free agents. 

Moving forward with Cousins and Beal for example, would be a glorious start.

Durant I don't see coming to Boston because I just don't think he'll leave OKC.  I think he SHOULD leave for his own career's sake (I don't feel he and Westbrook complement each other) but I think he's too loyal to the city and will inevitably stay.

Davis has years s to pee away at NO....no rush.....at best they ll be Magic Howard era like.   He is wasting his time IMO .

This is an interesting point, and it's exactly the reason why I often question those in the pro-tanking stance.

Anthony Davis would have to be the best player to enter the NBA, from a top 3 draft position, in the last decade.  You can't really get a top 3 pick and hope to get a player any better than Davis.

Yet you look at the Pelicans now (his third season in the league) and they are tied for the 4th worst record in the NBA.  Last year they were no better than we were. 

In fact, if you look at the top 3 picks over the past 5 seasons:

2010:
1 - John Wall (Wizards)
2 - Evan Turner (76ers)
3 - Derrick Favors (Nets)

2011:
1 - Kyrie Irving (Cavs)
2 - Derrick Williams (Timberwolves)
3 - Enes Kanter (Nets -> Traded to Jazz)

2012:
1 - Anthony Davis (Pelicans)
2 - Michael Kidd-Gilchrist (Bobcats)
3 - Bradley Beal (Wizards)

2013:
1 - Anthony Bennett (Cavs)
2 - Victor Oladipo (Magic)
3 - Otto Porter (Wizards)

2014:
1 - Andrew Wiggins (Cavs -> Traded to Timberwolves)
2 - Jabari Parker (Bucks)
3 - Joel Embiid (76ers)

2015:
1 - Karl Anthony Towns (Timberwolves)
2 - D'Angelo Russell (Lakers)
3 - Jahlil Okafor (76ers)

Now if you look a the list of teams who actually held those draft positions (not the teams that the players eventually got traded to) how many of those teams have made it anywhere further than the playoff mediocrity that tanking fans fear so much?

The only team on that list who has been a legit contender in the past 5 years has been Cleveland, that was a completely fluke that was entirely dependent on:

1) The Cavs managing to fluke the #1 pick in 2014 (despite the 9th worst record / bets odds) and then flipping that pick to Minnesota for Kevin Love

2) The Cavs getting lucky enough to have Lebron decide to re-sign there

Prior to this, they were barely contending for a playoff spot.

The only other team on that least that has really made any noise has been the Wizards last year, and they probably wouldn't have made it past the first round without Paul Pierce's constant playoff heroics. 

At the end of the day it all comes down to this - getting a top 3 pick gives you a solid chance at pulling a future star on the cheap, but in order to get that top 3 pick you usually need to be a really, really bad team.  Adding a future star to a really, really bad team makes you what exactly?  A really, really bad team with a future star. 

Danny has put himself in an amazing position. 

He has:
* A very competitive team that has legit playoff aspirations AND
* A draft pick that has a legit shot at falling top 3 AND
* Three other first round picks which should all fall somewhere between 9-20 AND
* A crapload of cap space AND
* A top tier coach AND
* A great team culture AND
* A group of young unselfish players who play hard on a consistent basis

It really is crazy what he has done as a GM.

Disagree.

Danny Ainge needs to be fired.
 

(Sarcasm, if you didn't notice.)

If you look at the track record, and the list of things Ainge has done, its incredible to believe we're complaining about tanking, or the possibility of that occurring, and yet for the corspe of Pierce/KG and Terry, we might get a top 5 pick.

TP.

Cousins and or Beal/Durant would be the best thing that happened to BOS since '07.

[PhoSita]

I like Khris Middleton, Tobias Harris, and Danilo Gallinari.  Solid players all.  I doubt any of them will ever make an All-Star team.  But solid. 

At the same time, given what they're making now, not sure it's necessarily worth giving up any significant assets for players of that sort unless we've already got a main guy in place.

[Monkhouse]

I like Khris Middleton, Tobias Harris, and Danilo Gallinari.  Solid players all.  I doubt any of them will ever make an All-Star team.  But solid. 

At the same time, given what they're making now, not sure it's necessarily worth giving up any significant assets for players of that sort unless we've already got a main guy in place.

Would Gallinari really fit in our system? I mean if its pace and space, isn't Gallinari like slow as molasses? Give me Middleton any day.

[Casperian]

Maybe Christmas will come early.    Hold tight.   

Lee, Amir, Smart, Jerebko and the top 1 protected Brooklyn pick for Carmelo Anthony and Robin Lopez.   51 wins here we come.

Man, that would be terrible.

I like Khris Middleton, Tobias Harris, and Danilo Gallinari.  Solid players all.  I doubt any of them will ever make an All-Star team.  But solid. 

At the same time, given what they're making now, not sure it's necessarily worth giving up any significant assets for players of that sort unless we've already got a main guy in place.

Agreed.

We either have players of that calibre already on the team, or can get them through the draft with our plethora of picks, anyway. If we can get them on a bargain, I'm all for it, but there's no need to sell the farm for them.

It's either go big or go home.

[crimson_stallion]

I concur with LarBird33 and others that the situations to watch are going to be the FAs who become vested for trading as of Dec 15.

Harris, Gallinari, Middleton, etc., are definitely players to watch.   The rumors / reports were pretty compelling that Danny was _very_ interested in Harris and then Gallinari when the FA window opened and I would not be surprised if he is still interested in acquiring one of them by trade.

Harris, imho, would be a great fit.   Great size and a very effective outside-in scoring game.  And he's young and on a great contract.

In all honesty, I don't really see a lot of sense in going after either Harris or Gallinari.

I know Harris is still only 23 years old, but he's been in the league for 5 years already and is still yet to break out.   

In fact his production (Per 36 minutes) has been practically identical every year since he entered the league 5 seasons ago:

2011-12: 15.6 PTS, 7.6 REB, 1.7 AST, 1.0 STL, 0.5 BLK, 47% FG, 26% 3PT, 81% FT
2012-13: 16.7 PTS, 8.0 REB, 1.9 AST, 0.9 STL, 1.2 BLK, 46% FG, 32% 3PT, 75% FT
2013-14: 17.4 PTS, 8.6 REB, 1.6 AST, 0.8 STL, 0.5 BLK, 46% FG, 25% 3PT, 81% FT
2014-15: 17.7 PTS, 6.5 REB, 1.9 AST, 1.0 STL, 0.5 BLK, 47% FG, 36% 3PT, 79% FT
2015-16: 16.2 PTS, 8.5 REB, 2.2 AST, 0.9 STL, 0.7 BLK, 45% FG, 33% 3PT, 82% FT

Even Avery Bradley (who Boston fans have, until recently, been so disappointed with)  has shown FAR great improvement than that from his rookie season until now.  What is there to indicate Harris will ever be anything more than the player he is right now?

If there is any consolation it's that even at the current production, his $16M / 4YR deal will look like solid value (if not a bargain) once the cap spikes hit over the next couple of seasons.  Still, my concern is how much we'd potentially have to give up in order to get him - would he be worth the cost?

As for Gallinari, to be honest I've never really seen the fascination. 

1) He's 27 years now so his upside is limited
2) He's badly injury prone (missed 40% of possible games so far over his 7 seasons)
3) He hasn't shot above 42.5% FG since his rookie season
4) He's per minute scoring production over his career is only around Avery Bradley level
5) He's on a $14M / 3 YR contract, roughly double what we are currently paying AB

I do think Gallinari would be a significant talent upgrade at the SF spot but he's a significant defensive downgrade from Crowder, a far grater risk (health wise), and is on double the salary.

I believe moves like this help the team get better right away, but will they add enough to justify the cost?

[PhoSita]

I like Khris Middleton, Tobias Harris, and Danilo Gallinari.  Solid players all.  I doubt any of them will ever make an All-Star team.  But solid. 

At the same time, given what they're making now, not sure it's necessarily worth giving up any significant assets for players of that sort unless we've already got a main guy in place.

Would Gallinari really fit in our system? I mean if its pace and space, isn't Gallinari like slow as molasses? Give me Middleton any day.

I think Middleton is better but probably not as easy to acquire.  Gallo to me is probably best as a small ball 4 these days.

[jpotter33]

There are a ton of guys I could see us targeting, but they can't be moved until mid December or mid January, because they signed new contracts as restricted free agents.

I'm talking about guys like Khris Middleton and Tobias Harris.   

I'm wondering if it would make sense to move Bradley (who is playing like an all-star, but still too small to share a back court with Thomas... and might be best backing up Smart anyways) for someone like Khris Middleton.   BUcks already have two SF's in Parker and Giannis... they are playing Middeton out of position at SG.   Bradley makes 8 mil.  Middleton makes 15.  Would probably have to include a contract like Jerebko's 5 mil to make it work.   Middleton can shoot and defend.  Would be a great fit.  Not a superstar, but would make a ton of sense for us.  He can't be traded until Jan 14th.

Same for Harris... They have two SF's on their bench who probably project as Orlando's future (Aaron Gordon and Mario Hezonja).   I think Orlando was on the fence about even bringing Harris back for that kind of money (16 mil per year).  I'd think you could get him.  He can't be traded until December 15th. 

You also have guys like Kevin Love (can't be traded until December 15th) that I wouldn't be terribly shocked to see moved.  Once Kyrie comes back, who knows if Love will continue having his role.  They have Thompson making 14 mil to be Love's backup.  That's a lot of money... considering that Thompson might be a better fit in a Kyrie/LeBron offense, I'm not counting out the possibility that Love (with his value back up thanks to the team taking great care to involve him) gets sold for a bounty of assets.

I've argued for the Bradley for Middleton trade before, and I think it makes too much sense not to consider, especially given Milwaukee's logjam at the 3. To a lesser extent, I can see the Orlando trade, too, though they have quite a few backcourt pieces that would complicate a Bradley trade. This is especially true with as good as they've been since Oladipo went to the bench.

[crimson_stallion]

Maybe Christmas will come early.    Hold tight.   

Lee, Amir, Smart, Jerebko and the top 1 protected Brooklyn pick for Carmelo Anthony and Robin Lopez.   51 wins here we come.

Man, that would be terrible.

I'd have no problem with us making that trade. In fact I would do it without hesitation.

Carmelo doesn't have any real upside in him at this point, but it doesn't really matter to be honest because at the age of 31 he's still one of 5 or 10 best offensive players in the league, and is also an elite rebounder and skilled passer at his position.

More importantly Melo is a guy who dominates his opponents with skill and fundamentals (good form, good footwork, high basketball IQ) rather than outright athleticism - much like Pierce.  His game should age well, and I expect that as long as his body holds up he should have another 4 - 5 years of quality basketball left in him.

If anything the way the league is going (with the whole 'going small' thing) should benefit Carmelo's longevity, because when he eventually does lose his quickness he'll still have the size (6'8", 240 pounds, 7'0" wingspan), rebounding ability (7.5 Reb Per 36), shooting range (36% 3PT), passing ability (3.3 AST Per 36) and post-up game to evolve into the penultimate stretch four.

A guy like Melo (ability to create his own offense, ability to dominate in ISO situations, ability to get to the line consistently, elite clutch game) is exactly the type of piece this Celtics team needs to push it to the next level, and even Carmelo's monstrous $22M / 3YR contract will seem like decent value (relative to his production) with the upcoming cap rises.

Honestly, he's pretty close to the perfect piece for this team.  We have a roster full of guys who are oftentimes TOO unselfish, and we could actually really use a guy like Melo with a this-is-my-team-and-i'm-taking-that-shot mentality.

I would actually try to hold on to Amir Johnson though, and see if I can send somebody else out in the trade - myabe Turner and Sully.

Then I'd put Melo at PF, and stick him in there with Thomas, Bradley, Crowder and maybe Johnson / Olynyk. 

* The defensive trio of Bradley, Crowder and Johnson/Olynyk should nicely cover up for any defensive deficiencies

* The offensive trio of Thomas, Bradley and Melo would be a nightmare for any opposing team to cover

It's only a pipe dream, but oh how I'd love to see it.

[timpiker]

I don't think Gallanari is a star.  I want nothing to do with Melo or Cousins.  I think DA is losing his patience by throwing the kitchen sink at Winslow.  I see no hope on the horizon.  I like our team but there is no way in hell we're a championship team unless something big breaks.  DA's job is to be ready to pounce when/if it happens.  But 5 picks for Winslow?  That was some crazy weed Danny was sucking on.

[crimson_stallion]

There are a ton of guys I could see us targeting, but they can't be moved until mid December or mid January, because they signed new contracts as restricted free agents.

I'm talking about guys like Khris Middleton and Tobias Harris.   

I'm wondering if it would make sense to move Bradley (who is playing like an all-star, but still too small to share a back court with Thomas... and might be best backing up Smart anyways) for someone like Khris Middleton.   BUcks already have two SF's in Parker and Giannis... they are playing Middeton out of position at SG.   Bradley makes 8 mil.  Middleton makes 15.  Would probably have to include a contract like Jerebko's 5 mil to make it work.   Middleton can shoot and defend.  Would be a great fit.  Not a superstar, but would make a ton of sense for us.  He can't be traded until Jan 14th.

Same for Harris... They have two SF's on their bench who probably project as Orlando's future (Aaron Gordon and Mario Hezonja).   I think Orlando was on the fence about even bringing Harris back for that kind of money (16 mil per year).  I'd think you could get him.  He can't be traded until December 15th. 

You also have guys like Kevin Love (can't be traded until December 15th) that I wouldn't be terribly shocked to see moved.  Once Kyrie comes back, who knows if Love will continue having his role.  They have Thompson making 14 mil to be Love's backup.  That's a lot of money... considering that Thompson might be a better fit in a Kyrie/LeBron offense, I'm not counting out the possibility that Love (with his value back up thanks to the team taking great care to involve him) gets sold for a bounty of assets.

I've argued for the Bradley for Middleton trade before, and I think it makes too much sense not to consider, especially given Milwaukee's logjam at the 3. To a lesser extent, I can see the Orlando trade, too, though they have quite a few backcourt pieces that would complicate a Bradley trade. This is especially true with as good as they've been since Oladipo went to the bench.

Honestly, I wouldn't do that trade if I were Ainge.

There are two main reasons:

1) This Celtics team is too lacking in individual offensive threats.  Other than Isaiah Thomas (obviously), our only other consistent offensive player has been Bradley.  In fact, you could realistically argue that Bradley has been our best offensive player this year, with the numbers he's putting up right now.  If we trade Bradley then we would be starting Smart or Turner at the SG spot.   Smart doesn't have the offensive ability yet to keep offensive pressure off Thomas, and Turner doesn't have the defensive ability to cover for his limitations on that end of the floor.  I think Bradley's offensive ability is critical in giving Thomas room to operate.

2) We need a quality defensive presence in the back-court alongside Thomas - it's practically a prerequisite for starting Thomas at PG.  Smart can cover that defensive role, but he's still fairly raw and has had a lot of injury issues this year - it's a bit risk depending on him as your one-and-only man in that role.   Right now we have Bradley and Smart - they are each other's "insurance" policy, so even if one of those guys gets hurt we always have a 2 guard who can cover to Thomas defensively.  I wouldn't want to break that unless we get a MAJOR upgrade (i.e. an All-Star) in return, and Middleton isn't that.

3) Looking at Middleton's Per-36 numbers this year (15.4 pts, 3.4 reb, 3.3 ast) they really aren't any better than Crowder's (14.2 pts, 5.5 reb, 2.6 ast) overall.  His three point shooting is obviously hugely superior, but Crowder is also a much superior defensive player.  Middleton over Crowder is an upgrade, but it's not a huge one.  I think losing Bradley hurts us more than adding Middleton helps. 

[GratefulCs]

Go for cousins


Reminds me of webber before sac town

[Jon]

Well, if you don't have a superstar, you're either waiting to win a draft lottery, waiting for a superstar to come via free agency, or waiting for the aforementioned trade situation to pop up.  None of those opportunities happen very frequently (even if you win the lottery, you have to win it in a LeBron draft, not a Kwame Brown draft). 

But Danny is doing about as good of a job as possible to put himself in position to have a crack at all three.  The same can't be said about a team like Philly. 

[2short]

Gortat?  Washington doesn't look good.  If wall is out they might look to move him in right deal.
maybe Noel, philly needs some vets on that team.  Okafor is by far the superior player.  Noel is a very good defender but not very polished otherwise.  Sully, young, draft picks?

[Surferdad]

There are a ton of guys I could see us targeting, but they can't be moved until mid December or mid January, because they signed new contracts as restricted free agents.

I'm talking about guys like Khris Middleton and Tobias Harris.   

I'm wondering if it would make sense to move Bradley (who is playing like an all-star, but still too small to share a back court with Thomas... and might be best backing up Smart anyways) for someone like Khris Middleton.   BUcks already have two SF's in Parker and Giannis... they are playing Middeton out of position at SG.   Bradley makes 8 mil.  Middleton makes 15.  Would probably have to include a contract like Jerebko's 5 mil to make it work.   Middleton can shoot and defend.  Would be a great fit.  Not a superstar, but would make a ton of sense for us.  He can't be traded until Jan 14th.

Same for Harris... They have two SF's on their bench who probably project as Orlando's future (Aaron Gordon and Mario Hezonja).   I think Orlando was on the fence about even bringing Harris back for that kind of money (16 mil per year).  I'd think you could get him.  He can't be traded until December 15th. 

You also have guys like Kevin Love (can't be traded until December 15th) that I wouldn't be terribly shocked to see moved.  Once Kyrie comes back, who knows if Love will continue having his role.  They have Thompson making 14 mil to be Love's backup.  That's a lot of money... considering that Thompson might be a better fit in a Kyrie/LeBron offense, I'm not counting out the possibility that Love (with his value back up thanks to the team taking great care to involve him) gets sold for a bounty of assets.

On that same note... Amir (12 mil) and Jerebko (5 mil) can't be moved until December 14th either...  so if "big splash" trades were on the table, we haven't yet had an opportunity to officially make them since any superstar trade likely involves us sending out Amir's special contract.   

Maybe Christmas will come early.    Hold tight.   

Lee, Amir, Smart, Jerebko and the top 1 protected Brooklyn pick for Carmelo Anthony and Robin Lopez.   51 wins here we come.

Can't tell if you are being sarcastic, but the present roster is capable (not saying will happen) of 51 wins.

Once again, the best trades are still the best ones Danny doesn't make.

[SHAQATTACK]

Then there's Joe Johnson .....