This team IS good....just not

[celticmania]

We have s few issues as far as personnel.
1. Our guards are too small (our best player is 5'9)
2. Our bigs are too unathletic (sully, olynyk, lee)
3. We don't have a star (our best player is Thomas)
4. We suck offensively when Isiah is on the bench (AB can't carry an offense)
5. Is smart really that good of a player? Is he even a pg?

Positives
1. Great coach
2. very good defense
3. Smart, Hunter, Mickey, Rozier, Young are still developing
4.Hopefully the Nets pick is top 5
5. picks in the future
6. several role players that could be on championship teams (smart, Bradley, crowder, Johnson)

[chambers]

Glad Danny doesn't care what you few think. The KG,Ray, and PP teams were only good enough once, must have cost like 5 lottery picks! If your argument is that they kept going further than we did, that means nothing, the end result was "good but not good enough!"

That team was robbed of at least 2 Titles due to injuries and won their only title in the FIRST year together.

It was a historically GREAT team in YEAR ONE.

The end result was a Championship....more than good enough!

I agree with you in that a Championship is the goal and if that was achieved, it's hard to say that any price was too high of a price.

Not to mention that the only way it would have cost "5 lottery picks" would be for the Cs to lose a LOT the next 4 years. After all, the only direct lottery pick as part of the Allen and KG trades was the #5 for Allen. KG was Jefferson (15th pick), Green (18th) and a host of late round 1sts.

Of course, the team wasn't "robbed" of titles due to injuries. The simply fact is that injuries happen, especially to older players (or big guys named Perk). That's the big risk when you trade for an older player. Or two.

They won one Championship and that was a great accomplishment. Danny was exceptionally smart that year and took a giant gamble. He recognized that there were some very unique circumstances in regards to KG, PP and Basketball Jesus. That's 3 HOFers who all were still very good but clearly on the downside of their careers who had never won a title. That's not a normal occurrence. He had one. He couldn't get #2 (KG). So he made the deal to get the third (Ray) giving away his #5 pick to do it with the hope that that would be enough to get KG to move. It was a HUGE gamble and one that could have cost him his job had he failed. After all, a team of PP and Ray Allen wasn't going to make much noise in the playoffs. Danny rolled the dice and it came up big. It took smarts and guts to make that call and Danny can't be praised enough for doing it.

At the same time, that kind of opportunity is rare. Danny knows this. So he's slowly improving the team without sacrificing assets or future flexibility so when the opportunity does come around again he can jump on it. He's been smart (and lucky) enough to give himself a real chance to hit the jackpot in either the draft, trades or even free agency.

Talk about the point being missed. It is HARD to win a championship, EVERY team will lose way more than they win. That team was good but not good enough for like 6 seasons they didn't win the chip, I still loved cheering us on the few years I got to see even though we didn't win! My point is, just because we aren't good enough to win a chip (no matter what round it ends in) doesn't mean it is a lost season! If you call last season a lost season/opportunity then you have to say the same for any season we don't win the chip the because the results from losing is the same, no lotto pick!

I'm not sure you realize how condescending you come across when someone challenges your statements- you're extremely defensive.
The point he's making is that team would have had 3 or 4 championships if our top 5 player didn't get injured.
The team was good enough talent wise for multiple championships. Just because KG got injured doesn't make it 'not good enough' or a 'lost season'...which is what you're saying.

[PhoSita]

I think looking back the two biggest mistakes that Ainge, the coaching staff, the management (whatever you want to call it, call it all three...) did were:

1. Playing guys like Bass, Hump, Bayless, Rondo and Green (they all should have been traded) rather than playing our young guys. This absolutely cost us a legitimate chance at drafting Parker or Wiggins.

2. Perhaps even more criminal in nature was playing guys like Bass, Prince, Thornton and Green just enough minutes to move us from the 8th to 11th pick to the ever coveted 16th pick in the 2015 draft. This likely causing us a shot at Stanley Johnson, Justice Winslow or Myles Turner.

In both 2014 and 2015 it seemed pretty clear that the above mentioned vets were clearly not in our long term plans. Why would ever play guys like Prince and Thornton, and even Bass, Green and Rondo when you know they will never be wearing a Celtics uniform again.

You don't need to showcase them - the league understands their talent level.

I agree wholeheartedly with your points.  I just think Ainge's philosophy -- perhaps informed by ownership -- is different than you or I would prefer.

Ainge is loathe to part with a player he deems an "asset" for anything less than just a bit more than they're worth to the Celtics.  He'd rather hold onto a guy than let him go for less.

I also think that Ainge has always tried to keep his options open for a big trade that could immediately vault the team back to competing past the 1st round in the playoffs, even in the very first year of the rebuild, no matter how unlikely.  I suspect ownership may have a hand in this -- never let the fans think the team is more than one big move away from contending again, Danny -- but it's just a feeling.

[LarBrd33]

We have s few issues as far as personnel.
1. Our guards are too small (our best player is 5'9)
2. Our bigs are too unathletic (sully, olynyk, lee)
3. We don't have a star (our best player is Thomas)
4. We suck offensively when Isiah is on the bench (AB can't carry an offense)
5. Is smart really that good of a player? Is he even a pg?

Positives
1. Great coach
2. very good defense
3. Smart, Hunter, Mickey, Rozier, Young are still developing
4.Hopefully the Nets pick is top 5
5. picks in the future
6. several role players that could be on championship teams (smart, Bradley, crowder, Johnson)

I agree with all of this.

[chambers]

We weren't really in the same spot because we already had a top 10/15 NBA player in Pierce.
We have one guy who is probably a top 30 player, perhaps 35 in Thomas.

I guess the only 'All Star' asset we have is our coach.

That's an interesting question to ask...Is Stevens right now, as valuable as Pierce was in 2007?

[LilRip]

i think the Nuggets comparison is pretty apt in terms of talent level. The Nuggets have a bunch of interesting talents that look like they could really help other teams but on their own, no one really stands out much. The biggest difference is we have a top-flight coach.

At best, I think this team will be a 7th seed again this year. We might win one playoff game this time around, but it seems really doubtful.

[TheReaLPuba]

Glad Danny doesn't care what you few think. The KG,Ray, and PP teams were only good enough once, must have cost like 5 lottery picks! If your argument is that they kept going further than we did, that means nothing, the end result was "good but not good enough!"

That team was robbed of at least 2 Titles due to injuries and won their only title in the FIRST year together.

It was a historically GREAT team in YEAR ONE.

The end result was a Championship....more than good enough!

I agree with you in that a Championship is the goal and if that was achieved, it's hard to say that any price was too high of a price.

Not to mention that the only way it would have cost "5 lottery picks" would be for the Cs to lose a LOT the next 4 years. After all, the only direct lottery pick as part of the Allen and KG trades was the #5 for Allen. KG was Jefferson (15th pick), Green (18th) and a host of late round 1sts.

Of course, the team wasn't "robbed" of titles due to injuries. The simply fact is that injuries happen, especially to older players (or big guys named Perk). That's the big risk when you trade for an older player. Or two.

They won one Championship and that was a great accomplishment. Danny was exceptionally smart that year and took a giant gamble. He recognized that there were some very unique circumstances in regards to KG, PP and Basketball Jesus. That's 3 HOFers who all were still very good but clearly on the downside of their careers who had never won a title. That's not a normal occurrence. He had one. He couldn't get #2 (KG). So he made the deal to get the third (Ray) giving away his #5 pick to do it with the hope that that would be enough to get KG to move. It was a HUGE gamble and one that could have cost him his job had he failed. After all, a team of PP and Ray Allen wasn't going to make much noise in the playoffs. Danny rolled the dice and it came up big. It took smarts and guts to make that call and Danny can't be praised enough for doing it.

At the same time, that kind of opportunity is rare. Danny knows this. So he's slowly improving the team without sacrificing assets or future flexibility so when the opportunity does come around again he can jump on it. He's been smart (and lucky) enough to give himself a real chance to hit the jackpot in either the draft, trades or even free agency.

KG and Perk getting injured were not due to age. They were older yes but they weren't super old.

You don't have to be "old" to get injured. Look at the Cavs...they lose Love and Irving and they still were extremely competitive with the mighty Warriors and it was because of LeBron.

Had the Cavs been at full strength they win the title in 7.

The C's are not going to become elite staying mildly competitive and then working in a young stud. They need to get really bad and get young so they can compete and lose and grow together.

No team in history has won a title being just good and then all of a suddenly great by adding an All-Star to a team with ZERO All-Stars!

[TheReaLPuba]

Let's face it. We're the Denver Nuggets of the East with an upside of being Atlanta Hawks lite.

Nuggets are most likely a high lottery team, have an 8-13 record, an average margin of victory of -5.4 ppg, 24th in ppg, 24th in opponent's ppg, and they've already had an 8 game losing streak,

How did you get from that to us?

I meant when the Nuggets were good a couple of years ago with George Karl as their coach.

[TheReaLPuba]

I can't take a poster seriously that starts out by saying he has no interest in being a great team.

Only because we throw that word "great" around too much.

I have interest in a historically great team sure.

But the real prize that matters is a title.

Of course if this team goes 80-2 next year without winning a title that would be fun to watch as well.

[TheReaLPuba]

We have s few issues as far as personnel.
1. Our guards are too small (our best player is 5'9)
2. Our bigs are too unathletic (sully, olynyk, lee)
3. We don't have a star (our best player is Thomas)
4. We suck offensively when Isiah is on the bench (AB can't carry an offense)
5. Is smart really that good of a player? Is he even a pg?

Positives
1. Great coach
2. very good defense
3. Smart, Hunter, Mickey, Rozier, Young are still developing
4.Hopefully the Nets pick is top 5
5. picks in the future
6. several role players that could be on championship teams (smart, Bradley, crowder, Johnson)

This assessment is right on.

[crimson_stallion]

We have s few issues as far as personnel.
1. Our guards are too small (our best player is 5'9)
2. Our bigs are too unathletic (sully, olynyk, lee)
3. We don't have a star (our best player is Thomas)
4. We suck offensively when Isiah is on the bench (AB can't carry an offense)
5. Is smart really that good of a player? Is he even a pg?

Positives
1. Great coach
2. very good defense
3. Smart, Hunter, Mickey, Rozier, Young are still developing
4.Hopefully the Nets pick is top 5
5. picks in the future
6. several role players that could be on championship teams (smart, Bradley, crowder, Johnson)

I'm not sure I agree with all this.

1) I'm not entirely sure Thomas is our best player - so far this year, Bradley has arguably been a better all round player.

2) I think Johnson and Olynyk are mobile enough as far as the PF and C spots go

3) Thomas and Bradley are both looking eerily like stars this year (both averaging 19+ Points Per 36 while also contributing in other ways)

4) I only partially agree with this - I think Avery has carried our offense through a number of stretches over the past couple of weeks, but not sure he can do it long term

5) I think he has potential to be a fringe All-Star, but levels out around there.  I don't see him being a 'star' in the truest sense of the word.  I think he'll take time to develop though, and I think he's a 'combo guard' through and through (think - Tyreke Evans with elite defense).

[SHAQATTACK]

This team is terrible without IT

[TheReaLPuba]

This team is terrible without IT

Totally agree.

IT is All-Star talent offensively and would help us off the Bench most.

But we still need a go-to guy down the stretch and I don't see anyone on this team that can do this.

[RockinRyA]

I like this team.   I like a lot of the players.  They have heart.  They are well coached and play hard.   Most of the guys on this team are legitimate NBA players.     But we're on a par with teams like the Magic, Raptors and Jazz... decent teams that will not threaten for a championship.   

WE already saw what happens when a team like ours meets a team with legit superstar talent... break out the brooms.    Nobody should legitimately believe this team has a shot at a title right now.  We're barely a playoff team at the moment.   If the playoffs started today, we we wouldn't make it.    Ball bounces the wrong way a few times and we'll be in the deep lotto.  There are four teams below us (Pistons, Knicks, Wizards and Bucks) who could reasonably finish above us depending on how the rest of their season and our season goes. 

But I have a faith in AInge... we're heading in the right direction.  He'll certainly do everything he can to try and get all-star talent here.

We could miss the playoffs, sure.  Everybody knows this.  The possibility also exists that we could make the playoffs and advance past the first round (that's how close most of the East is right now).

Some of you seem hellbent (always) on trying to discourage those of us who enjoy rooting for the team to be as successful as they can.

It gets a bit tedious.

I'm rooting for them to be successful too.   I could see the team making the playoffs and getting out of the 1st round depending on who they match up with.   But a contender this team is not.

I think so too. We are in the tier 3 of teams, tier 1 being the Spurs, Cavs, Warriors and Tier 2 being OKC and Clippers if they start playing well. Very good playoff teams with no real shot at championship. Yes similar to the Nuggets of years past but we are in way better position than those Nuggets team in terms of getting better. We are younger and have more assets and a better coach.

[oldtype]

How much worse off are we talent-wise from last year's Hawks? Looking at each team's two best players, are Isaiah Thomas and Avery Bradley even that much worse than Al Hoford and Paul Milsap at this point? 

While it doesn't look like things will work out for the Hawks, nobody would have suggested that they need to tank/tear everything down because they had a low ceiling. The right move would have been (and still is) for them to be opportunistic and look for chances to improve their talent and take the next step.

It's the same for these Celtics. The tank for a superstar ship has sailed, and we are much closer to rebuilding through granular improvement/free agency/trades than we are to doing so through the draft.

And hell, if you want a superstar through the draft, Brooklyn might do that for us too.