Author Topic: Cousins is a dog  (Read 17824 times)

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Re: Cousins is a dog
« Reply #75 on: December 05, 2015, 01:07:15 AM »

Offline pearljammer10

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The Kings suck.

We wouldn't have ever even said the Kings might make the playoffs if Cousins wasn't on that team.

I get it. You guys don't like Cousins. You think hes a selfish jerk who pouts, cries, and complains to the ref for every call.

Whatever.

You're not going to be able to change some people's minds. Cousins to me is a top 10 player. You may disagree, that's fine. But all I know is Cousins came to BOS, there is a huge and far better chance marquee agents would give us a chance versus us just drafting a top 10 pick.
[/b]



I was pretty much with you until the last part.

Sorry I just can't believe that Cousins is going to suddenly, and magically just change, and literally turn over a new leaf, just because he's traded to the Boston Celtics or any other NBA team for that matter. The odd's are against it.

What new leaf should he turn over?

* passionately cares about winning;

* improves his game every season;

* contributes by scoring, rebounding, passing and defending;

* leader in the community with no police involvement;

* team leader who organized voluntary workouts during summer league the last two seasons. Favorite of Coach K on Team USA.

He looks irritated all the time? He's got an explosive temper?  I don't really care.

TP!!!

Make that another. And a TP to max as well for the post above.

Re: Cousins is a dog
« Reply #76 on: December 05, 2015, 01:28:35 AM »

Offline Celtics18

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Because he makes his team better.  Much, much, much better.  Like, day and night better.
I'd cool it with the "much, much, much better" since they've never sniffed the playoffs or won even 30 games with Cousins, now in his 6th year. Yes, the teams around him haven't been good either so he's not entirely to blame, but it makes it hard to argue that he makes those team better at all if he's never won 30 games.

No, I won't. 

Because I have already provided cold, hard objective facts to prove how "much, much, much" better the team is with Cousins on it.

You're talking about a bad lottery team without Cousins, versus a potential playoff team with him.   That is a MASSIVE different for just one man to make for a team.

Look at the Celtics for example.  Everybody talks about how important Smart is to this team, but look at our win record this year when he has played, versus when he hasn't.  They are pretty much identical records.  Teams have a tendancy to make up for it when a key guy is out by stepping things up.  When Cousins is out the Kings still have a pretty solid talent set - Rondo, McLemore, Rudy Gay, Kufos, WCS, etc.  That's definately not a 'Philadelphia-76ers-bad" roster. 

Yet without Cousins this year, the Kings are 1-7 (0.140) which is on target for the second worst win percentage in the NBA (only the Sixers, at 0.050, are worse).

The fact that the team has solid talent (arguably more than ours does) without Cousins and yet is on target to be a bottom 2 team tells you how many other issues there are on that team affecting their wins.  That could be coaching, it could be team morale, it could be poor management/organisation.  Whatever it is, the team is a ducks breakfast of a mess, and the fact that that pig of a team is actually playoff caliber when Cousins plays is nothing short of a revelation.

Yet if you stop and look at last year's Sacramento team, you'll find the same is pretty much true.  When Cousins played, they were at (or near) a playoff win percentage - when he was out they were a bottom shelf lottery team.

So no, i'm not going to cool it, because Cousins is a beast...and he's a beast who adds an astronomical number of wins to his team.  He is absolutely a franchise caliber player in terms of his team impact, and there is no debate about it. 

Anybody who tries to claim otherwise is just a biased hater - there is no other way to put it.

You make a strong case for Cousins.  His traditional numbers are a monster as are his +/- and advanced numbers.  He's clearly one of the top players in the league.

I don't consider myself a "biased hater."  I recognize Boogie's immense talent, but I still think his on-court demeanor needs a lot of improvement.  If he's going to be a legitimate superstar, he's got to learn to carry himself like less of a baby. 

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C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: Cousins is a dog
« Reply #77 on: December 05, 2015, 03:45:26 AM »

Offline Hemingway

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There is a lot of silliness in this thread. I'm convinced that there is a certain percent of "fans" here and everywhere that honesty don't want us to win games. They probably don't watch the games anyways and thing drafting the next LBJ is the only way to go.

Here is something that no one seems to ever mention, if we got DMC and his personality was just too much, we could always trade him. Its not like he would stop being huge or stop being one of the only really good big men in the game.

We are better right now, without DMC than the Kings are with him. Even if we traded all the nets picks and Lee for him we would still have a big expiring contract in Amir and a lot of picks to make another trade if we could. We would still have room this summer for 1 maybe 2 max or near max guys. We'd still have room the summer after that to get another max guy.

If Ainge can get a Durrant, Melo or DMC this season I think he will try to get a good deal but be ok with paying almost any cost. The reason is with the cap going up and then going up again there is a HUGE opportunity cost. We might be a FA destination already because of CBS and how well we have done without a star, but getting a star would clinch it. If we get one, one way or another we will get another one. If we don't get one we may be waiting a while as for the next 2 summers everyone can offer a max deal. 2 years go by without a star and we have to start worrying about losing the guys that we have that are pretty good who will want to go somewhere better. 

Re: Cousins is a dog
« Reply #78 on: December 05, 2015, 04:02:33 AM »

Offline LooseCannon

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I think a case can be made that Cousins in Sacramento is as valuable as Kevin Love was in Minnesota.  Advanced metrics probably have Love as better, though.

If you are trying to come up with trade packages that tempt the Kings next summer, I'd guess you would have to start with as much value as Cleveland gave to the TWolves and negotiate upwards.
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Re: Cousins is a dog
« Reply #79 on: December 05, 2015, 09:40:29 AM »

Offline dreamgreen

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Well I think the classic example for DMC with his great stats is to quote BB "stats are for losers" and yet on his way to another 30 win season. I'm not buying any of this: he's a great guy, great leader, hungry to win blah blah blah BS. Heard this stuff about Rondo too.

Trust me I'd love to see him come here and be all that and totally prove me wrong, I will be the first person to say it. Love to see him lead us to multiple championships, be the MVP so on and so on. Sounds like a fairy tale to me.

Let me ask this, if he's cheese and the macaroni why would Sac trade him? :o

Re: Cousins is a dog
« Reply #80 on: December 05, 2015, 09:46:01 AM »

Offline Monkhouse

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Well I think the classic example for DMC with his great stats is to quote BB "stats are for losers" and yet on his way to another 30 win season. I'm not buying any of this: he's a great guy, great leader, hungry to win blah blah blah BS. Heard this stuff about Rondo too.

Trust me I'd love to see him come here and be all that and totally prove me wrong, I will be the first person to say it. Love to see him lead us to multiple championships, be the MVP so on and so on. Sounds like a fairy tale to me.

Let me ask this, if he's cheese and the macaroni why would Sac trade him? :o

Because other than Rudy Gay, WCS, and Ben McLemore, who is their best trade chip?

Trading DMC would reel in a top pick or another superstar player that could fit their system better, or allow them to completely blow it up and go young once again.
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Re: Cousins is a dog
« Reply #81 on: December 05, 2015, 09:48:16 AM »

Offline Hemingway

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Well I think the classic example for DMC with his great stats is to quote BB "stats are for losers" and yet on his way to another 30 win season. I'm not buying any of this: he's a great guy, great leader, hungry to win blah blah blah BS. Heard this stuff about Rondo too.

Trust me I'd love to see him come here and be all that and totally prove me wrong, I will be the first person to say it. Love to see him lead us to multiple championships, be the MVP so on and so on. Sounds like a fairy tale to me.

Let me ask this, if he's cheese and the macaroni why would Sac trade him? :o

well they haven't traded him despite everything. So you are kind of proving our point.

Re: Cousins is a dog
« Reply #82 on: December 05, 2015, 10:01:11 AM »

Offline dreamgreen

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Well I think the classic example for DMC with his great stats is to quote BB "stats are for losers" and yet on his way to another 30 win season. I'm not buying any of this: he's a great guy, great leader, hungry to win blah blah blah BS. Heard this stuff about Rondo too.

Trust me I'd love to see him come here and be all that and totally prove me wrong, I will be the first person to say it. Love to see him lead us to multiple championships, be the MVP so on and so on. Sounds like a fairy tale to me.

Let me ask this, if he's cheese and the macaroni why would Sac trade him? :o

Because other than Rudy Gay, WCS, and Ben McLemore, who is their best trade chip?

Trading DMC would reel in a top pick or another superstar player that could fit their system better, or allow them to completely blow it up and go young once again.

Well he already is young with that type of talent so plain and simple he would only be traded if they get sick of his **** and just throw their arms up or he asks to be traded.

Re: Cousins is a dog
« Reply #83 on: December 05, 2015, 10:02:05 AM »

Offline dreamgreen

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Well I think the classic example for DMC with his great stats is to quote BB "stats are for losers" and yet on his way to another 30 win season. I'm not buying any of this: he's a great guy, great leader, hungry to win blah blah blah BS. Heard this stuff about Rondo too.

Trust me I'd love to see him come here and be all that and totally prove me wrong, I will be the first person to say it. Love to see him lead us to multiple championships, be the MVP so on and so on. Sounds like a fairy tale to me.

Let me ask this, if he's cheese and the macaroni why would Sac trade him? :o

well they haven't traded him despite everything. So you are kind of proving our point.

True enough but for some reason his name is always in the rumor mill why is that?

Re: Cousins is a dog
« Reply #84 on: December 05, 2015, 03:41:05 PM »

Offline rondohondo

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there's no doubt Cousins is a talented player , he will just never win as a #1 option and leader .

Like I have said many times before he is Rasheed Wallace, who needs a ready made team for him to help put them over the top . The C's are not that team at this point.

I would not mortgage our future for a guy that can easily implode , we lose our best draft picks , and try to build a contender around a guy who is a loose cannon . I don't think major talents would want to join  and put up with his antics  .  And trading our nets draft picks would mean we are adding the rest of our talent through free agency because all of our best trade chips would be gone after trading for cousins .

Re: Cousins is a dog
« Reply #85 on: December 05, 2015, 04:04:34 PM »

Offline CelticPride2016

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It comes down to what one is willing to give up for what would most certainly be a huge risk of a trade.

I would give up one of our best young players, maybe two, plus one of the big expiring contracts to balance the money.

I would give up one top draft pick.

That's it.

Take it or leave it.

I've seen Cousins neutralized a number of times by the Celtics. Roy is correct many of us only have that to go on.

I've seen him make dirty plays. I've seen short clips of him walking during games.

I wasn't happy hearing that Danny was willing to give up so much to move up a couple draft slots. I would not be too happy if we gave up multiple Brooklyn picks.

I would consider trading Marcus Smart based on his not proving yet he can get it done shooting.

I would offer Sacramento a fair deal. That is where the trade conjecture debate probably varies most in opinions. I think one top pick and one or two decent rotation players should be enough. Give them our future picks also. I doubt we will want anything to do with them when we are picking between 25 and 30 every year. Even #20 picks seem like a burden. Rozier, Hunter, and Mickey look good, but there are no guarantees. We still don't know how good or bad Olynyk is. We don't know if Sully is trying to sculpture his body or if he's doing the minimum to get us off his back.

I would trade for Cousins, but only under a scenario where the Kings aren't trying to fleece us for someone who could ultimately be a head case and not worth such a risk. He's not Bill Russell.

I didn't want Carmelo Anthony or Kevin Love and don't understand why we would want either of them. Cousins, though, sure. He is the type of player we need. Amir is almost 30 and Zeller has a low ceiling. We need a center, unless Olynyk finds a way to shut up a lot of people unhappy with his play and hair.

Cousins could be the right idea, but the wrong player.

We have a very good future in the bank making no moves.

We can try to make the quick leap to true contention, but we should be careful.

It's not like Marcus Smart or Olynyk for example are ready right now to compete for rings.

The timing seems off for this sort of trade.

And one more idea please - If we can sign a free agent, we don't have to give up anything to get a great player. If we get lucky with the draft, again, we give up nobody.

If we want DeMarcus Cousins, we may have to give up too much. We may be better off chilling out and taking it slow and steady for a few more years rather than going all in. We don't need to go all in is what I'm saying. Be very careful whenever contemplating going all in.

Re: Cousins is a dog
« Reply #86 on: December 05, 2015, 04:18:38 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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The Kings suck.

We wouldn't have ever even said the Kings might make the playoffs if Cousins wasn't on that team.

I get it. You guys don't like Cousins. You think hes a selfish jerk who pouts, cries, and complains to the ref for every call.

Whatever.

You're not going to be able to change some people's minds. Cousins to me is a top 10 player. You may disagree, that's fine. But all I know is Cousins came to BOS, there is a huge and far better chance marquee agents would give us a chance versus us just drafting a top 10 pick.
[/b]



I was pretty much with you until the last part.

Sorry I just can't believe that Cousins is going to suddenly, and magically just change, and literally turn over a new leaf, just because he's traded to the Boston Celtics or any other NBA team for that matter. The odd's are against it.

What new leaf should he turn over?

* passionately cares about winning;

* improves his game every season;

* contributes by scoring, rebounding, passing and defending;

* leader in the community with no police involvement;

* team leader who organized voluntary workouts during summer league the last two seasons. Favorite of Coach K on Team USA.

He looks irritated all the time? He's got an explosive temper?  I don't really care.

Wow Boogie sounds a bit like KG here.......

If we ever got him to BOS and he starts talking to the basket supports prior to jump ball and I'm done.

Re: Cousins is a dog
« Reply #87 on: December 05, 2015, 04:21:49 PM »

Offline rondohondo

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The Kings suck.

We wouldn't have ever even said the Kings might make the playoffs if Cousins wasn't on that team.

I get it. You guys don't like Cousins. You think hes a selfish jerk who pouts, cries, and complains to the ref for every call.

Whatever.

You're not going to be able to change some people's minds. Cousins to me is a top 10 player. You may disagree, that's fine. But all I know is Cousins came to BOS, there is a huge and far better chance marquee agents would give us a chance versus us just drafting a top 10 pick.
[/b]



I was pretty much with you until the last part.

Sorry I just can't believe that Cousins is going to suddenly, and magically just change, and literally turn over a new leaf, just because he's traded to the Boston Celtics or any other NBA team for that matter. The odd's are against it.

What new leaf should he turn over?

* passionately cares about winning;

* improves his game every season;

* contributes by scoring, rebounding, passing and defending;

* leader in the community with no police involvement;

* team leader who organized voluntary workouts during summer league the last two seasons. Favorite of Coach K on Team USA.

He looks irritated all the time? He's got an explosive temper?  I don't really care.

Wow Boogie sounds a bit like KG here.......

If we ever got him to BOS and he starts talking to the basket supports prior to jump ball and I'm done.
I can assure you Cousins is not close to the player and leader KG was.

Re: Cousins is a dog
« Reply #88 on: December 05, 2015, 04:21:54 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Demarcus Cousins is a BIG DOG...little dogs should stay on the porch.


Re: Cousins is a dog
« Reply #89 on: December 05, 2015, 04:23:55 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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The Kings suck.

We wouldn't have ever even said the Kings might make the playoffs if Cousins wasn't on that team.

I get it. You guys don't like Cousins. You think hes a selfish jerk who pouts, cries, and complains to the ref for every call.

Whatever.

You're not going to be able to change some people's minds. Cousins to me is a top 10 player. You may disagree, that's fine. But all I know is Cousins came to BOS, there is a huge and far better chance marquee agents would give us a chance versus us just drafting a top 10 pick.
[/b]



I was pretty much with you until the last part.

Sorry I just can't believe that Cousins is going to suddenly, and magically just change, and literally turn over a new leaf, just because he's traded to the Boston Celtics or any other NBA team for that matter. The odd's are against it.

What new leaf should he turn over?

* passionately cares about winning;

* improves his game every season;

* contributes by scoring, rebounding, passing and defending;

* leader in the community with no police involvement;

* team leader who organized voluntary workouts during summer league the last two seasons. Favorite of Coach K on Team USA.

He looks irritated all the time? He's got an explosive temper?  I don't really care.

Wow Boogie sounds a bit like KG here.......

If we ever got him to BOS and he starts talking to the basket supports prior to jump ball and I'm done.
I can assure you Cousins is not close to the player and leader KG was.

While I respect your point of view, you cannot assure me of anything.

If we EVER got him to BOS he's going to prove many of the naysayers wrong.