Cousins is a dog

[dreamgreen]

I'm not going to base my opinions on Cousins after his actions in one game in Mexico City... If this guy is available, you do what you can to get him. Period.

I told myself to start a thread on this subject *before* last night's game, i.e., no matter if Cousins had a good or bad game, one game means nothing.  You've got to consider his body o work (which has been tremendous).  It seems that many, many Celtics fans base their opinion of Cousins on the games he plays against the Celtics, and ignore all other evidence.

Roy do you trade the Nets pick for Cousins if it lands in the top 3?

I would trade at least two Brooklyn picks for him,with only top-1 protection on them.

WOW, WOW! that is way to much for a guy that no interest in playing defense and is easily frustrated and ready to explode (in a negative way) at any moment.

I see a lot of posts on here blaming everything and everyone why he doesn't play hard, doesn't win and is a walking technical foul. But the fact is it's him, period!!!

I watched Lebron (who I hate) take a bunch of bums to the NBA finals years back. He did that not talent alone he did that by being a team leader, putting in maximum effort on every play.

That team with decent talent is on pace to win 25-30 games and that is on him. Stop making excuses for him and demand more of him, right now he still looks like the spoiled high school kid out there pouting like a jerk. Its disgusting to watch this guy play, not sure how anyone can root for him.

[Roy H.]

Because he makes his team better.  Much, much, much better.  Like, day and night better.

I'd cool it with the "much, much, much better" since they've never sniffed the playoffs or won even 30 games with Cousins, now in his 6th year. Yes, the teams around him haven't been good either so he's not entirely to blame, but it makes it hard to argue that he makes those team better at all if he's never won 30 games.

It doesn't make it that hard to argue.  This season, for instance, the Kings are something like 1-7 without Cousins, 6-6 with him.  That's a pretty clear argument that he makes his team better, and that's without even getting into advanced stats.  (Short version: Cousins' impact in terms of adjusted +/- was in the top-10 last year.)

[Roy H.]

I'm not going to base my opinions on Cousins after his actions in one game in Mexico City... If this guy is available, you do what you can to get him. Period.

I told myself to start a thread on this subject *before* last night's game, i.e., no matter if Cousins had a good or bad game, one game means nothing.  You've got to consider his body o work (which has been tremendous).  It seems that many, many Celtics fans base their opinion of Cousins on the games he plays against the Celtics, and ignore all other evidence.

Roy do you trade the Nets pick for Cousins if it lands in the top 3?

I would trade at least two Brooklyn picks for him,with only top-1 protection on them.

WOW, WOW! that is way to much for a guy that no interest in playing defense and is easily frustrated and ready to explode (in a negative way) at any moment.

I see a lot of posts on here blaming everything and everyone why he doesn't play hard, doesn't win and is a walking technical foul. But the fact is it's him, period!!!

I watched Lebron (who I hate) take a bunch of bums to the NBA finals years back. He did that not talent alone he did that by being a team leader, putting in maximum effort on every play.

That team with decent talent is on pace to win 25-30 games and that is on him. Stop making excuses for him and demand more of him, right now he still looks like the spoiled high school kid out there pouting like a jerk. Its disgusting to watch this guy play, not sure how anyone can root for him.

In terms of being a "walking technical foul", I assume you don't want Blake Griffin, Russell Westbrook, or Kevin Durant on your team?  All pick up techs at roughly the same rate as DMC.

Regarding not winning, I assume you wanted no part of KG when he was languishing in the lottery with Minnesota?

As for not playing hard, I assume that's demonstrated by him leading the league in charges taken the past two seasons, by him rushing back from a life-threatening illness to help his team, by him constantly improving his game (become a very good defender, adding a 3PT shot), and by him being named by Zach Lowe as a DPOY candidate?

If his greatest sin is that he's not Lebron, I guess we can all live with that.

[Eddie20]

Classic Cousins

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2317223-kings-demarcus-cousins-stands-still-during-possession-vs-timberwolves?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=programming-national

[Big333223]

Because he makes his team better.  Much, much, much better.  Like, day and night better.

I'd cool it with the "much, much, much better" since they've never sniffed the playoffs or won even 30 games with Cousins, now in his 6th year. Yes, the teams around him haven't been good either so he's not entirely to blame, but it makes it hard to argue that he makes those team better at all if he's never won 30 games.

It doesn't make it that hard to argue.  This season, for instance, the Kings are something like 1-7 without Cousins, 6-6 with him.  That's a pretty clear argument that he makes his team better, and that's without even getting into advanced stats.  (Short version: Cousins' impact in terms of adjusted +/- was in the top-10 last year.)

Sure, it your argument is that the team is better with the player it was built to compliment on the floor than it is when you take him away, I agree. But when I think of a player who "makes his team better" I think of a guy who makes the players around him better or more effective than they would be with someone else of similar talent. So far, Cousins is still a lot of raw talent but he still doesn't play smart or understand what he has to do as a leader and as a person to inspire teammates to play better with him. And it's getting to be late in the game for him to figure this stuff out.

[Big333223]

Classic Cousins

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2317223-kings-demarcus-cousins-stands-still-during-possession-vs-timberwolves?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=programming-national

lol. That's what I'm talking about.

I was so hopeful this guy could figure things out because he's got the talent to be the next Moses Malone, but this is terrible.

[dreamgreen]

I'm not going to base my opinions on Cousins after his actions in one game in Mexico City... If this guy is available, you do what you can to get him. Period.

I told myself to start a thread on this subject *before* last night's game, i.e., no matter if Cousins had a good or bad game, one game means nothing.  You've got to consider his body o work (which has been tremendous).  It seems that many, many Celtics fans base their opinion of Cousins on the games he plays against the Celtics, and ignore all other evidence.

Roy do you trade the Nets pick for Cousins if it lands in the top 3?

I would trade at least two Brooklyn picks for him,with only top-1 protection on them.

WOW, WOW! that is way to much for a guy that no interest in playing defense and is easily frustrated and ready to explode (in a negative way) at any moment.

I see a lot of posts on here blaming everything and everyone why he doesn't play hard, doesn't win and is a walking technical foul. But the fact is it's him, period!!!

I watched Lebron (who I hate) take a bunch of bums to the NBA finals years back. He did that not talent alone he did that by being a team leader, putting in maximum effort on every play.

That team with decent talent is on pace to win 25-30 games and that is on him. Stop making excuses for him and demand more of him, right now he still looks like the spoiled high school kid out there pouting like a jerk. Its disgusting to watch this guy play, not sure how anyone can root for him.

In terms of being a "walking technical foul", I assume you don't want Blake Griffin, Russell Westbrook, or Kevin Durant on your team?  All pick up techs at roughly the same rate as DMC.

Regarding not winning, I assume you wanted no part of KG when he was languishing in the lottery with Minnesota?

As for not playing hard, I assume that's demonstrated by him leading the league in charges taken the past two seasons, by him rushing back from a life-threatening illness to help his team, by him constantly improving his game (become a very good defender, adding a 3PT shot), and by him being named by Zach Lowe as a DPOY candidate?

If his greatest sin is that he's not Lebron, I guess we can all live with that.

I'm not just talking about getting a technical foul for mouthing off (some of those are refs trying to be bigger than the game), he looks like he's ready to throw a punch at any moment, he acts like a punk on the court.

KG played with great heart, DMC plays with minimal heart IMO, he says he wants to win but all he has shown so far is he likes to complain.

His 3 point shot has improved, not really a fan of guys that can play in the post taking 3's. History shows they become to rely on it and get lazy with the rest of their offense. As for DPOY I would love to buy whatever Zach Lowe is smoking. Take away the fact the NBA doesn't give awards to players on losing teams. Their team defense is awful and it starts with him.

Said it before the talent is there but I don't see the desire. All those stories you quote are interesting but I worry they are lies. Teams (and agents) often try to put out this type of stuff to make the player look better. This is done to try to keep fan base from turning on a player and to keep value up for trade purposes.

I was a Rondo fan for a long time but I had to come to terms he's a complete selfish jerk, doesn't bode well that him and DMC are now BFFs.

[Monkhouse]

The Kings suck.

We wouldn't have ever even said the Kings might make the playoffs if Cousins wasn't on that team.

I get it. You guys don't like Cousins. You think hes a selfish jerk who pouts, cries, and complains to the ref for every call.

Whatever.

You're not going to be able to change some people's minds. Cousins to me is a top 10 player. You may disagree, that's fine. But all I know is Cousins came to BOS, there is a huge and far better chance marquee agents would give us a chance versus us just drafting a top 10 pick.

[Roy H.]

Because he makes his team better.  Much, much, much better.  Like, day and night better.

I'd cool it with the "much, much, much better" since they've never sniffed the playoffs or won even 30 games with Cousins, now in his 6th year. Yes, the teams around him haven't been good either so he's not entirely to blame, but it makes it hard to argue that he makes those team better at all if he's never won 30 games.

It doesn't make it that hard to argue.  This season, for instance, the Kings are something like 1-7 without Cousins, 6-6 with him.  That's a pretty clear argument that he makes his team better, and that's without even getting into advanced stats.  (Short version: Cousins' impact in terms of adjusted +/- was in the top-10 last year.)

Sure, it your argument is that the team is better with the player it was built to compliment on the floor than it is when you take him away, I agree. But when I think of a player who "makes his team better" I think of a guy who makes the players around him better or more effective than they would be with someone else of similar talent. So far, Cousins is still a lot of raw talent but he still doesn't play smart or understand what he has to do as a leader and as a person to inspire teammates to play better with him. And it's getting to be late in the game for him to figure this stuff out.

Under that standard, did KG "make his team better" his last couple of years in Minnesota?

[crimson_stallion]

Because he makes his team better.  Much, much, much better.  Like, day and night better.

I'd cool it with the "much, much, much better" since they've never sniffed the playoffs or won even 30 games with Cousins, now in his 6th year. Yes, the teams around him haven't been good either so he's not entirely to blame, but it makes it hard to argue that he makes those team better at all if he's never won 30 games.

No, I won't. 

Because I have already provided cold, hard objective facts to prove how "much, much, much" better the team is with Cousins on it.

You're talking about a bad lottery team without Cousins, versus a potential playoff team with him.   That is a MASSIVE different for just one man to make for a team.

Look at the Celtics for example.  Everybody talks about how important Smart is to this team, but look at our win record this year when he has played, versus when he hasn't.  They are pretty much identical records.  Teams have a tendancy to make up for it when a key guy is out by stepping things up.  When Cousins is out the Kings still have a pretty solid talent set - Rondo, McLemore, Rudy Gay, Kufos, WCS, etc.  That's definately not a 'Philadelphia-76ers-bad" roster. 

Yet without Cousins this year, the Kings are 1-7 (0.140) which is on target for the second worst win percentage in the NBA (only the Sixers, at 0.050, are worse).

The fact that the team has solid talent (arguably more than ours does) without Cousins and yet is on target to be a bottom 2 team tells you how many other issues there are on that team affecting their wins.  That could be coaching, it could be team morale, it could be poor management/organisation.  Whatever it is, the team is a ducks breakfast of a mess, and the fact that that pig of a team is actually playoff caliber when Cousins plays is nothing short of a revelation.

Yet if you stop and look at last year's Sacramento team, you'll find the same is pretty much true.  When Cousins played, they were at (or near) a playoff win percentage - when he was out they were a bottom shelf lottery team.

So no, i'm not going to cool it, because Cousins is a beast...and he's a beast who adds an astronomical number of wins to his team.  He is absolutely a franchise caliber player in terms of his team impact, and there is no debate about it. 

Anybody who tries to claim otherwise is just a biased hater - there is no other way to put it.

[Rosco917]

The Kings suck.

We wouldn't have ever even said the Kings might make the playoffs if Cousins wasn't on that team.

I get it. You guys don't like Cousins. You think hes a selfish jerk who pouts, cries, and complains to the ref for every call.

Whatever.

You're not going to be able to change some people's minds. Cousins to me is a top 10 player. You may disagree, that's fine. But all I know is Cousins came to BOS, there is a huge and far better chance marquee agents would give us a chance versus us just drafting a top 10 pick.

[/b]



I was pretty much with you until the last part.

Sorry I just can't believe that Cousins is going to suddenly, and magically just change, and literally turn over a new leaf, just because he's traded to the Boston Celtics or any other NBA team for that matter. The odd's are against it. 

[Roy H.]

The Kings suck.

We wouldn't have ever even said the Kings might make the playoffs if Cousins wasn't on that team.

I get it. You guys don't like Cousins. You think hes a selfish jerk who pouts, cries, and complains to the ref for every call.

Whatever.

You're not going to be able to change some people's minds. Cousins to me is a top 10 player. You may disagree, that's fine. But all I know is Cousins came to BOS, there is a huge and far better chance marquee agents would give us a chance versus us just drafting a top 10 pick.

[/b]



I was pretty much with you until the last part.

Sorry I just can't believe that Cousins is going to suddenly, and magically just change, and literally turn over a new leaf, just because he's traded to the Boston Celtics or any other NBA team for that matter. The odd's are against it.

What new leaf should he turn over?

* passionately cares about winning;

* improves his game every season;

* contributes by scoring, rebounding, passing and defending;

* leader in the community with no police involvement;

* team leader who organized voluntary workouts during summer league the last two seasons. Favorite of Coach K on Team USA.

He looks irritated all the time? He's got an explosive temper?  I don't really care.

[Monkhouse]

The Kings suck.

We wouldn't have ever even said the Kings might make the playoffs if Cousins wasn't on that team.

I get it. You guys don't like Cousins. You think hes a selfish jerk who pouts, cries, and complains to the ref for every call.

Whatever.

You're not going to be able to change some people's minds. Cousins to me is a top 10 player. You may disagree, that's fine. But all I know is Cousins came to BOS, there is a huge and far better chance marquee agents would give us a chance versus us just drafting a top 10 pick.

[/b]



I was pretty much with you until the last part.

Sorry I just can't believe that Cousins is going to suddenly, and magically just change, and literally turn over a new leaf, just because he's traded to the Boston Celtics or any other NBA team for that matter. The odd's are against it.

What new leaf should he turn over?

* passionately cares about winning;

* improves his game every season;

* contributes by scoring, rebounding, passing and defending;

* leader in the community with no police involvement;

* team leader who organized voluntary workouts during summer league the last two seasons. Favorite of Coach K on Team USA.

He looks irritated all the time? He's got an explosive temper?  I don't really care.

Thank you once again Roy.

[max215]

TPs to Roy and Crimson for several great posts in defense of Boogie. At this point the numbers tell one story: Boogie is a top 10 player. Watching him tells one story: he's a truly dominant force. There really shouldn't be much of an argument.

[crimson_stallion]

The Kings suck.

We wouldn't have ever even said the Kings might make the playoffs if Cousins wasn't on that team.

I get it. You guys don't like Cousins. You think hes a selfish jerk who pouts, cries, and complains to the ref for every call.

Whatever.

You're not going to be able to change some people's minds. Cousins to me is a top 10 player. You may disagree, that's fine. But all I know is Cousins came to BOS, there is a huge and far better chance marquee agents would give us a chance versus us just drafting a top 10 pick.

[/b]



I was pretty much with you until the last part.

Sorry I just can't believe that Cousins is going to suddenly, and magically just change, and literally turn over a new leaf, just because he's traded to the Boston Celtics or any other NBA team for that matter. The odd's are against it.

What new leaf should he turn over?

* passionately cares about winning;

* improves his game every season;

* contributes by scoring, rebounding, passing and defending;

* leader in the community with no police involvement;

* team leader who organized voluntary workouts during summer league the last two seasons. Favorite of Coach K on Team USA.

He looks irritated all the time? He's got an explosive temper?  I don't really care.

TP!!!