Doc Rivers' coaching record doesn't really look that good

[bdm860]

- Pre- Dwight Howard Orlando teams. They were overachieving most years

-Pre- big 3 Celtics. I don't think anyone could've helped those teams as far as coaching.

Clippers? Well, they are forever cursed and have to play GS regularly.

He's not that great? But who is really better that's coaching now outside of Pop?

Brad Stevens for sure.

there are a number of coaches better than Doc.  I'd of course take CBS and Pop, but I'd also take for sure Ricky C, Spoel, Stan, and Budenholzer.  I'm undecided on, but might take, Hollins, Brown, Kerr, Snyder, and Donovan.  Most of the indecision there is those guys are mostly new and don't have the consistent track record (and I don't see them enough like I do CBS to really know).

Spoel has done nothing for me.  What do you like about him?

Nothing special pre-LeBron but with a prime Wade and little else (43 and 47 wins).  I see that as average.  You can argue above average in '10.

Underwhelming with LeBron. 3 of the 4 years under a 60 win pace in the weak East. 
54 wins in LeBrons last year (with a healthy LeBron and Bosh, but unhealthy Wade).

Then last season was a disappointment.  Ya they were hit hard by injuries, but so were other teams like OKC, Chicago, Indiana, Houston, Milwaukee.

I mean he does have 2 championships and 4 straight Finals appearances so of course there's that, but I just see him as an average at best coach.

[PhoSita]

David Thorpe recently said on Zach Lowe's podcast that there are a lot of NBA coaches who are just average, a few who are really excellent, and a handful that are completely awful.

Doc's in the "just average" group.  He doesn't really make teams better, but he doesn't make them worse.  He manages personalities more than anything.

The Celts are lucky to be in the hands of Stevens -- one of the few really excellent coaches in the league.

[Who]

I think Spoelstra does a great job of coaching defensive teams / power basketball. He grew up under Riley and that old Miami mindset under Mourning and then Shaq. Typical centers. Low post players. Physical teams. I think Spoelstra is excellent at coaching this type of game plan.

I though Spoelstra struggled to adapt to the Big Three. They were more about quickness and small ball. It was a learning experience for him as a coach. He was slow to adapt and struggled at times. You could see in difficult periods, his inclination was always away from team's strengths and more to his own preferences (big power based basketball). He would have to fight that inclination. He forced himself to learn more about "pace and space" basketball and adapt to the team. I though overall, he underperformed in developing that group of players into a team and that someone else could have done even more with them.

But I do think Spoelstra is a top coach when he can coach to his strengths. I thought he was hugely impressive pre-Big Three in leading those lackluster Miami sides to mid-40 win seasons. Both of those teams I thought overachieved relative to their talent.

Similar to someone like Jeff Van Gundy. Mindset and style. Strengths.

[pearljammer10]

All coaches have their ups and downs...If you put any other coaches timeline alongside this one (aside from maybe 2-3-4 of the legendary coaches) they would look awfully similar and in most cases even worse.

Most coaches don't have Blake Griffin, DeAndre Jordan, and Chris Paul.

And most people vastly overrate all three. 

[Ogaju]

Doc has always been an average coach.  I just think he is a two-faced **** and have I have never liked him.

plus 1

[kozlodoev]

I don't even know what to say to people who thing Carlisle, Spoelstra, and S van Gundy are better than Doc Rivers.

[SHAQATTACK]

Doc has always been an average coach.  I just think he is a two-faced **** and have I have never liked him.

plus 1

+2

[slamtheking]

I don't even know what to say to people who thing Carlisle, Spoelstra, and S van Gundy are better than Doc Rivers.

how about "you're absolutely right"?

[kozlodoev]

I don't even know what to say to people who thing Carlisle, Spoelstra, and S van Gundy are better than Doc Rivers.

how about "you're absolutely right"?

I meant without making obviously false statements. 

[PhoSita]

I don't even know what to say to people who thing Carlisle, Spoelstra, and S van Gundy are better than Doc Rivers.

Dunno about Spoelstra, but I think Carlisle and Stan Van are really good coaches.  Among the best.

Carlisle especially ... what he's done to keep the Mavs competitive year after year with an aging Nowitzki as the only real constant.  It's very impressive.

[kozlodoev]

I don't even know what to say to people who thing Carlisle, Spoelstra, and S van Gundy are better than Doc Rivers.

Dunno about Spoelstra, but I think Carlisle and Stan Van are really good coaches.  Among the best.

Carlisle especially ... what he's done to keep the Mavs competitive year after year with an aging Nowitzki as the only real constant.  It's very impressive.

Frankly, I think Stan is the worst of the lot. Every time we played against him, his team always seemed to fold. He couldn't get his best players on the same page with him, so I'm not really sure what he was good at (not Xs and Os and certainly not personnel management).

[slamtheking]

I don't even know what to say to people who thing Carlisle, Spoelstra, and S van Gundy are better than Doc Rivers.

how about "you're absolutely right"?

I meant without making obviously false statements. 

SVG and Spoelstra are nothing special IMHO just like Doc.

Carlisle however is one of the top coaches in the league.

[Eja117]

All coaches have their ups and downs...If you put any other coaches timeline alongside this one (aside from maybe 2-3-4 of the legendary coaches) they would look awfully similar and in most cases even worse.

Most coaches don't have Blake Griffin, DeAndre Jordan, and Chris Paul.

And most people vastly overrate all three.

Yeah, those guys are just garbage. You couldn't realistically expect a good coach to do much with them

[Moranis]

All coaches have their ups and downs...If you put any other coaches timeline alongside this one (aside from maybe 2-3-4 of the legendary coaches) they would look awfully similar and in most cases even worse.

Most coaches don't have Blake Griffin, DeAndre Jordan, and Chris Paul.

And most people vastly overrate all three.

Yeah, those guys are just garbage. You couldn't realistically expect a good coach to do much with them

Yeah I really don't get that one at all.  Chris Paul is clearly the best all around PG in the league and has been for close to a decade (he is still a significantly better passer and defender than Curry is).  Griffin is a superb offensive player and has improved his defense.  Jordan is a very good defender/rebounder.  That is what people say and that should get you at least 50 wins and playoff series victories every single year.  The fact that they haven't even made the conference finals is a real blight on their coaches.

[pearljammer10]

All coaches have their ups and downs...If you put any other coaches timeline alongside this one (aside from maybe 2-3-4 of the legendary coaches) they would look awfully similar and in most cases even worse.

Most coaches don't have Blake Griffin, DeAndre Jordan, and Chris Paul.

And most people vastly overrate all three.

Yeah, those guys are just garbage. You couldn't realistically expect a good coach to do much with them

So why have they never made it to a conference or NBA final? Stretch that through Chris Paul's entire career for that matter.

Talent wise they're great. They're title contenders yes. But they just don't have the clutch presence to get them over the hump. The presence of Pierce might get them to do that, but right now there are teams in the Western conference that are just plain better than them.