What to do if Brooklyn is as bad as advertised at the New Year mark?

[RAAAAAAAANDY]

If I was a Celtics fan I'd crack open a beer and enjoy the Brooklyn trainwreck.

I think you guys are getting a surefire top 5 pick outta this.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

Since we can't get BEAST Butler, I say we just use it. I'd love Cousins too.

[jpotter33]

Since we can't get BEAST Butler, I say we just use it. I'd love Cousins too.

The problem is, though we are young, I'm not sure that waiting to develop a young star is the best way to go with it. Of course, if no other stars are available for trade then that makes our job easier. But I won't lie, if that pick would let us get someone like Melo without giving up Smart (say something like Lee, Sully, JJ, our 2016 pick, and the Brooklyn 2016 pick for Melo), then I'd be inclined to do a trade like that.

[crimson_stallion]

So where's the line with a trade?

I think DMC is a yes, obviously. What about Melo? Love? What if the Brooklyn pick allows us to get a guy like Melo or Love without giving up Smart? At that point I think it'd be worth it.

DMC is not obvious for me IMO he has not proved that he can win in this league, only thing he has proven is that he is a total idiot!

Otherwise I'd have to be educated  as to who the top picks will be and how good they are suppose to be.

I don't get why you would say he's 'proven that he is a total idiot'.

I think DMC is one of the most misunderstood players in the league.  Despite the kings many (major) issues, he has been 100% loyal to that team even though, when most star players by now would have left via free agency or demanded a trade.

As for not proving he can win in the league - he has one of the top 5 real plus minus scores in the league last year, which gives a strong indication on how much he impacts his teams success.  Without him, they likely would have been fighting Philly for the worst record in the league.

The numbers simply don't lie.  Cousins has been a statistical freak - he's putting up stats that are right up there with absolutely any hall of fame center from the past 20 years or so.  Look up what guys like Olajuwon, Robinson, Shaq and Ewing were putting up at Cousins age and you'll see that DMC is a transcendent talent. 

He is a franchise player - a top 5 guy in the league (easily) and by far the best center in the NBA.

[crimson_stallion]

Since we can't get BEAST Butler, I say we just use it. I'd love Cousins too.

The problem is, though we are young, I'm not sure that waiting to develop a young star is the best way to go with it. Of course, if no other stars are available for trade then that makes our job easier. But I won't lie, if that pick would let us get someone like Melo without giving up Smart (say something like Lee, Sully, JJ, our 2016 pick, and the Brooklyn 2016 pick for Melo), then I'd be inclined to do a trade like that.

I have to agree.

i'd trade a 5th pick (and other bits) for Melo in a heartbeat.

[max215]

So where's the line with a trade?

I think DMC is a yes, obviously. What about Melo? Love? What if the Brooklyn pick allows us to get a guy like Melo or Love without giving up Smart? At that point I think it'd be worth it.

DMC is not obvious for me IMO he has not proved that he can win in this league, only thing he has proven is that he is a total idiot!

Otherwise I'd have to be educated  as to who the top picks will be and how good they are suppose to be.

I don't get why you would say he's 'proven that he is a total idiot'.

I think DMC is one of the most misunderstood players in the league.  Despite the kings many (major) issues, he has been 100% loyal to that team even though, when most star players by now would have left via free agency or demanded a trade.

As for not proving he can win in the league - he has one of the top 5 real plus minus scores in the league last year, which gives a strong indication on how much he impacts his teams success.  Without him, they likely would have been fighting Philly for the worst record in the league.

The numbers simply don't lie.  Cousins has been a statistical freak - he's putting up stats that are right up there with absolutely any hall of fame center from the past 20 years or so.  Look up what guys like Olajuwon, Robinson, Shaq and Ewing were putting up at Cousins age and you'll see that DMC is a transcendent talent. 

He is a franchise player - a top 5 guy in the league (easily) and by far the best center in the NBA.

Yep. The 'Boogie is an idiot' narrative lingers from his college days and is completely unwarranted. He hasn't had any real attitude problems in years, which is pretty amazing considering the crap he has to put up with in Sacramento. And I don't know how he could possibly be expected to win anything with the (lack of) talent surrounding him. Boogie is a monster and we'd be beyond lucky to have him; he's truly one of the most dominant guys in the league.

Edit: He's also an awesome passer and would be such a great fit in CBS' system.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

So where's the line with a trade?

I think DMC is a yes, obviously. What about Melo? Love? What if the Brooklyn pick allows us to get a guy like Melo or Love without giving up Smart? At that point I think it'd be worth it.

DMC is not obvious for me IMO he has not proved that he can win in this league, only thing he has proven is that he is a total idiot!

Otherwise I'd have to be educated  as to who the top picks will be and how good they are suppose to be.

I don't get why you would say he's 'proven that he is a total idiot'.

I think DMC is one of the most misunderstood players in the league.  Despite the kings many (major) issues, he has been 100% loyal to that team even though, when most star players by now would have left via free agency or demanded a trade.

As for not proving he can win in the league - he has one of the top 5 real plus minus scores in the league last year, which gives a strong indication on how much he impacts his teams success.  Without him, they likely would have been fighting Philly for the worst record in the league.

The numbers simply don't lie.  Cousins has been a statistical freak - he's putting up stats that are right up there with absolutely any hall of fame center from the past 20 years or so.  Look up what guys like Olajuwon, Robinson, Shaq and Ewing were putting up at Cousins age and you'll see that DMC is a transcendent talent. 

He is a franchise player - a top 5 guy in the league (easily) and by far the best center in the NBA.

Yep. The 'Boogie is an idiot' narrative lingers from his college days and is completely unwarranted. He hasn't had any real attitude problems in years, which is pretty amazing considering the crap he has to put up with in Sacramento. And I don't know how he could possibly be expected to win anything with the (lack of) talent surrounding him. Boogie is a monster and we'd be beyond lucky to have him; he's truly one of the most dominant guys in the league.

Edit: He's also an awesome passer and would be such a great fit in CBS' system.

if he's an idiot give me a team full of him.

[guava_wrench]

So where's the line with a trade?

I think DMC is a yes, obviously. What about Melo? Love? What if the Brooklyn pick allows us to get a guy like Melo or Love without giving up Smart? At that point I think it'd be worth it.

No way on Melo. The guy is already in physical decline and he we are already quite capable of getting knocked out in the first round without him. A high lottery slot has more value for us.

[guava_wrench]

What is their best move at that point? Since they'd pretty much already be out of the playoff race at that point, should they: a) blow it all up and try and bring in picks and younger pieces, or b) still keep it together since they have no incentive to blow it up or be bad?

They have no chance of competing now, and they have no potential to improve as a team in the short term (i.e next 2-3 seasons).

The way I see it, the only thing that makes any sense for that team is to break it up completely and start from scratch - try to acquire assets that can help them in the long term. 

I'd start by trading away anybody on the team who can actually offer some form of production to another team - Lopez, Johnson, Young, Bargnani.  I'd try to trade those guys out to teams with playoff aspirations, hope that you can get young prospects and / or future first round picks for  Lopez and Young. Try to find a veteran team who will give you a first for Johnson, if not keep him and let his contact expire after this season. 

Basically just sell any guy you have who is over 25 and can play, and try to get a combination of picks, prospects and cap relief in return.

Their present is non-existent, so may as well put yourself in a position to build a future.

I know rebuilding sucks in a way because we have their picks, and so it would burn for them knowing that going into a rebuild basically gifts Boston a goldmine...but at the same time it's what they MUST do if they want to have any hope of salvaging the next 2-3 years.  They can try to win some games just to make the picks worse out of spite, but in the long term they are only hurting themselves.

What is our best move at that point? With the Nets picked firmly entrenched in a race for a bottom three seed, do we act proactively and try and utilize that pick to trade for a disgruntled star, or do we keep it until this summer when we know exactly when the pick will be?

I would keep the picks. 

If you can get a pick in the top 5, then it's a valuable thing to have, so I'd hold on to it for flexibility.

If a legit star (who can really help the team take the next step) becomes available, then I'd make the pick available.  If not then I wouldn't try to force anything - no shame in waiting for the draft and, and drafting a top 5 prospect.

I don't see how JJ at 20+ million would be of interest to a contending team. How do they match that salary and not give up more talent than they are receiving? I suppose if we could get what we got for Rondo, JJ could find a taker.

Trading Lopez can get them value if Lopez makes it to midseason injury free.

[BitterJim]

What is their best move at that point? Since they'd pretty much already be out of the playoff race at that point, should they: a) blow it all up and try and bring in picks and younger pieces, or b) still keep it together since they have no incentive to blow it up or be bad?

They have no chance of competing now, and they have no potential to improve as a team in the short term (i.e next 2-3 seasons).

The way I see it, the only thing that makes any sense for that team is to break it up completely and start from scratch - try to acquire assets that can help them in the long term. 

I'd start by trading away anybody on the team who can actually offer some form of production to another team - Lopez, Johnson, Young, Bargnani.  I'd try to trade those guys out to teams with playoff aspirations, hope that you can get young prospects and / or future first round picks for  Lopez and Young. Try to find a veteran team who will give you a first for Johnson, if not keep him and let his contact expire after this season. 

Basically just sell any guy you have who is over 25 and can play, and try to get a combination of picks, prospects and cap relief in return.

Their present is non-existent, so may as well put yourself in a position to build a future.

I know rebuilding sucks in a way because we have their picks, and so it would burn for them knowing that going into a rebuild basically gifts Boston a goldmine...but at the same time it's what they MUST do if they want to have any hope of salvaging the next 2-3 years.  They can try to win some games just to make the picks worse out of spite, but in the long term they are only hurting themselves.

What is our best move at that point? With the Nets picked firmly entrenched in a race for a bottom three seed, do we act proactively and try and utilize that pick to trade for a disgruntled star, or do we keep it until this summer when we know exactly when the pick will be?

I would keep the picks. 

If you can get a pick in the top 5, then it's a valuable thing to have, so I'd hold on to it for flexibility.

If a legit star (who can really help the team take the next step) becomes available, then I'd make the pick available.  If not then I wouldn't try to force anything - no shame in waiting for the draft and, and drafting a top 5 prospect.

I don't see how JJ at 20+ million would be of interest to a contending team. How do they match that salary and not give up more talent than they are receiving? I suppose if we could get what we got for Rondo, JJ could find a taker.

Trading Lopez can get them value if Lopez makes it to midseason injury free.

I think it would need to be a situation similar to Lee on the Warriors last year, where a highly paid player is barely used due to injuries or age (I think Noah would be the best candidate for this, although a significant amount of salary would need to be added)

[Hemingway]

We would be better off trading for a star then drafting and developing one. It's about timing. Assuming that we can get the "spunk" back from last year- as Tommy puts it- then we have a good thing going, minus a star. Our team now is probably better than the cast PP had to work with pre big 3. If we could just add a star 4 or 5 I think we could have a real shot at a title. Obviously LBJ is tough and the Cavs are no joke but we have some good D.


How about this for an off the wall idea. We trade Lee and the 2016 nets pick to the nets for Lopez and their 2019 first (or whatever first they can trade that they haven't already) I'd only do that if it looked like they were going to get a pick around 8-10.

[tarheelsxxiii]

Ya'll don't really want Melo, this convo just reflects the desire to want to be relevant again sooner than later. Realistically, Melo may put us in the top 4 of the EC, but no further. He's arguably the worst ball-stopper in the league of the last decade, and to get him, or any star, it would cost us Smart and the BKN pick.

Bigger picture: Melo isn't headed to Boston under any circumstances.
And if we were to land Melo and a necessary second star (e.g., Love, also not in the realm of possibility), we still wouldn't likely beat the Cavs to get to the Finals.

Look around the league ... the star power in LAC, HOU, and OKC may not win a chip or even get to the Finals this year. Up-and-coming teams, like Milwaukee or Orlando, probably never see a Finals. It's that difficult to get to the promised land...

We have a young core of solid role players, plenty of which we can comfortably part with. Our best option is probably to be patient and build through the draft. As has been beaten to a pulp, the Nets picks are our best options to make significant improvement. Building through the draft is likely the most realistic option.

[Celtics4ever]

I would rather have the pick than Melo.  Someone else maybe perhaps I would trade it.

[SHAQATTACK]

I would rather have the pick than Melo.  Someone else maybe perhaps I would trade it.

Mello is not the answer to a young rebuilding team .    He is another aging player needing to move on to a team contending RIGHT NOW ....or trying to contend .  His days of being a player to build around have passed him by . 

Celtics need stars NOT passed their prime .     

[konkmv]

keep the pick... just that...