We wont trade the Nets picks back to the Nets for Brooke Lopez, right?

[Eddie20]

I think I'd give them their 2017 swap rights or 2018 pick back for Lopez. This year's pick stays.

Without Lopez, they'd be in pretty rough shape... and might even live up to the bottom 10 projections.   So I could see the logic in moving 2018 + the 2017 pick swap for Lopez.   He looked good the second half of last season... 19.7 points, 9.2 rebounds, 1.8 blocks on 53% shooting and 82% from the line.  I still don't think Brooklyn will be as bad as people think.

I'm just struggling to think of 3, let alone 5 teams that will be worse than Brooklyn in the East? Philly, Magic and maybe New York...?  I mean I'd take a team with Afflalo, Calderon, Carmelo, Robin Lopez and Porzingris over Brook Lopez, Thad Young and Joe Johnson...
Who are the Nets currently better than?

I'm either entirely thick or missing something.   Aside from Deron Williams (who most admit is borderline washed up), how is this team different than the one that finished the season?  Plumlee was down to 13 minutes per game during the final month and 8mpg during the playoffs... so him leaving isn't the reason, is it?

Brooklyn was a poorly coached team.  Brook Lopez spent half the season coming off the bench.  Over the second half, he averaged 19.7 points, 9.2 rebounds, 1.8 blocks on 53% shooting and 82% from the line.  They had Thad Young for 28 games and he avearged 14 points, 6 rebounds, 1.4 assists and 1.4 steals... Joe Johnson was still an effective 14.4 points, 4.8 rebounds, 3.7 assists... in the playoffs he averaged 17 points, 8 rebounds, 5 assists and a steal.

Brooklyn finished the season 13-6.    They looked good.   But now everyone says they will be the worst team in the league?    I get that they lost Deron and Jarret Jack isn't the world's greatest PG.   I get that the addition of Bargnani isn't anything to be concerned about (though he averaged 16.2 points, 4.6 rebounds, 1.8 assists, 1 block on 46%/37%/83% shooting over the second half of the season) ...  but why am I the only person who thinks a team that has made the playoffs 4 years in a row and has literally nothing to lose probably isn't going to be the worst team in the league?

I still think everyone's projections are contingent on the idea that Lopez re-injures himself.  Everyone acts like it's a foregone conclusion. 

1. Deron Williams was nowhere near as good as he used to be, but he was still arguably their best player (his 14-15 real plus-minus was the best on the team by a substantial margin).

2. Jarrett Jack is taking Deron Williams minutes and he's an advanced stat nightmare. The Nets were awful with him on the floor (as the Cavs were the year before).

3. Shane Larkin is taking Jack's minutes and he's even worse than Jack! What the Nets did to their PG position is the equivalent of the Hawks replacing Jeff Teague with Raymond Felton and Phil Pressey.

4. Joe Johnson is one more year older and ended the last season looking like a scrub.

5. Their 13-6 record came against crap competition (they lost their 3 road games against playoff teams by an average of 27 points during that stretch) and a big part of their success was Deron Williams' ability to get Brook Lopez easy shots in pick and roll (something Jack failed to do all season) and stretch the floor (something that neither Jack nor Larkin can do).

6. They replaced their weak back-up bigs (Teletovic, Plumlee, Jefferson) with horrific ones: Bargnani and T-Rob were horror shows last year.

7. Alan Anderson was very underrated for what he brought to the team last season. He's a tough defender that has a decent perimeter game and brought some nastiness.

8. Lopez and Young were in contract seasons. The importance of this can't be measured.

9. Lopez played 72 games. His last 4 seasons he's played in 5, 74, 17, and 72. So this could be the year he misses significant time. Regardless, it's a safe bet to say he misses considerable time the next 3 seasons, which is why I wouldn't deal 1 of those picks, let alone all 3, back for a poor defender, below average rebounder, who has injury issues, and doesn't fit the system.

[Eddie20]

I think I'd give them their 2017 swap rights or 2018 pick back for Lopez. This year's pick stays.

Without Lopez, they'd be in pretty rough shape... and might even live up to the bottom 10 projections.   So I could see the logic in moving 2018 + the 2017 pick swap for Lopez.   He looked good the second half of last season... 19.7 points, 9.2 rebounds, 1.8 blocks on 53% shooting and 82% from the line.  I still don't think Brooklyn will be as bad as people think.

I'm just struggling to think of 3, let alone 5 teams that will be worse than Brooklyn in the East? Philly, Magic and maybe New York...?  I mean I'd take a team with Afflalo, Calderon, Carmelo, Robin Lopez and Porzingris over Brook Lopez, Thad Young and Joe Johnson...
Who are the Nets currently better than?

Joe Johnson was still an effective 14.4 points, 4.8 rebounds, 3.7 assists... in the playoffs he averaged 17 points, 8 rebounds, 5 assists and a steal.

You forgot to mention that he shot 43.5% from the field during the regular season (35% from 3's) and 36% during the playoffs (29% from 3's). Not sure I would consider him "still effective". Those Iso Joe's at 34 have lost a lot of juice. And that begs another question, is he even capable of adapting his game to anything other to 1 on 1 ball stopping/isos?

[konkmv]

Target for conley horford in free agency.......... the nets picks are gold

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

Tonight is step one in our quest to be one of the best and hoping BKN is the worst!! We can get Brooke next season after we see where the pick lands if that's what we want.

[Eddie20]

Btw...it's Brook

[fairweatherfan]

I think I'd give them their 2017 swap rights or 2018 pick back for Lopez. This year's pick stays.

Without Lopez, they'd be in pretty rough shape... and might even live up to the bottom 10 projections.   So I could see the logic in moving 2018 + the 2017 pick swap for Lopez.   He looked good the second half of last season... 19.7 points, 9.2 rebounds, 1.8 blocks on 53% shooting and 82% from the line.  I still don't think Brooklyn will be as bad as people think.

I'm just struggling to think of 3, let alone 5 teams that will be worse than Brooklyn in the East? Philly, Magic and maybe New York...?  I mean I'd take a team with Afflalo, Calderon, Carmelo, Robin Lopez and Porzingris over Brook Lopez, Thad Young and Joe Johnson...
Who are the Nets currently better than?

I'm either entirely thick or missing something.   Aside from Deron Williams (who most admit is borderline washed up), how is this team different than the one that finished the season?  Plumlee was down to 13 minutes per game during the final month and 8mpg during the playoffs... so him leaving isn't the reason, is it?

Brooklyn was a poorly coached team.  Brook Lopez spent half the season coming off the bench.  Over the second half, he averaged 19.7 points, 9.2 rebounds, 1.8 blocks on 53% shooting and 82% from the line.  They had Thad Young for 28 games and he avearged 14 points, 6 rebounds, 1.4 assists and 1.4 steals... Joe Johnson was still an effective 14.4 points, 4.8 rebounds, 3.7 assists... in the playoffs he averaged 17 points, 8 rebounds, 5 assists and a steal.

Brooklyn finished the season 13-6.    They looked good.   But now everyone says they will be the worst team in the league?    I get that they lost Deron and Jarret Jack isn't the world's greatest PG.   I get that the addition of Bargnani isn't anything to be concerned about (though he averaged 16.2 points, 4.6 rebounds, 1.8 assists, 1 block on 46%/37%/83% shooting over the second half of the season) ...  but why am I the only person who thinks a team that has made the playoffs 4 years in a row and has literally nothing to lose probably isn't going to be the worst team in the league?

I still think everyone's projections are contingent on the idea that Lopez re-injures himself.  Everyone acts like it's a foregone conclusion. 

1. Deron Williams was nowhere near as good as he used to be, but he was still arguably their best player (his 14-15 real plus-minus was the best on the team by a substantial margin).

2. Jarrett Jack is taking Deron Williams minutes and he's an advanced stat nightmare. The Nets were awful with him on the floor (as the Cavs were the year before).

3. Shane Larkin is taking Jack's minutes and he's even worse than Jack! What the Nets did to their PG position is the equivalent of the Hawks replacing Jeff Teague with Raymond Felton and Phil Pressey.

4. Joe Johnson is one more year older and ended the last season looking like a scrub.

5. Their 13-6 record came against crap competition (they lost their 3 road games against playoff teams by an average of 27 points during that stretch) and a big part of their success was Deron Williams' ability to get Brook Lopez easy shots in pick and roll (something Jack failed to do all season) and stretch the floor (something that neither Jack nor Larkin can do).

6. They replaced their weak back-up bigs (Teletovic, Plumlee, Jefferson) with horrific ones: Bargnani and T-Rob were horror shows last year.

7. Alan Anderson was very underrated for what he brought to the team last season. He's a tough defender that has a decent perimeter game and brought some nastiness.

8. Lopez and Young were in contract seasons. The importance of this can't be measured.

9. Lopez played 72 games. His last 4 seasons he's played in 5, 74, 17, and 72. So this could be the year he misses significant time. Regardless, it's a safe bet to say he misses considerable time the next 3 seasons, which is why I wouldn't deal 1 of those picks, let alone all 3, back for a poor defender, below average rebounder, who has injury issues, and doesn't fit the system.

10.  They also went 15-9 in games decided by five points or less.  Close game results tend to be very volatile and mostly come down to chance; it's likely those close game results will come back to Earth this season.  If these fluky results were eliminated and they won close games at the exact same rate they won every other kind of game, they'd've finished at 32-33 wins and finished in the bottom 10 already.  And they're clearly worse this year.

[celticsclay]

The arguments for the Nets being decent this season come off as pretty lazy in this ongoing debate. At least we get to see the crappy product in action starting tonight.

[aingeforthree]

There is no way Ainge does this type of deal.  In order to nab any Brooklyn pick, it's going to take a big time all star coming back in a deal, one with no injury history.  Those picks are gold.

Ainge has really done one helluva job on the rebuild.  Solid.  His patience is amazing.

[Eddie20]

The arguments for the Nets being decent this season come off as pretty lazy in this ongoing debate.

Pretty much. Similar to how last pre-season many were saying that while the LeBron loss was huge, the Deng addition would still make them a legitimate threat.

Not sure how LB thinks we'll finish with more or less similar records when we've improved, while they've regressed.

[jambr380]

I think I'd give them their 2017 swap rights or 2018 pick back for Lopez. This year's pick stays.

Without Lopez, they'd be in pretty rough shape... and might even live up to the bottom 10 projections.   So I could see the logic in moving 2018 + the 2017 pick swap for Lopez.   He looked good the second half of last season... 19.7 points, 9.2 rebounds, 1.8 blocks on 53% shooting and 82% from the line.  I still don't think Brooklyn will be as bad as people think.

I'll bet all my TPs with you that Brooklyn will finish bottom 10 whatever happens.

Don't do it, I have lost all of my TPs on two occasions betting on the Cs winning the championship (nevermind the old days where CB kept updating their site and all posts/TPs would reset each time). You just end up looking like a dweeb with a horrible post to TP ratio.

[jambr380]

As for the original question - I can't imagine a scenario where Danny would ever do that trade. I could see maybe swapping our rights in 2017, but that is about it. Most of our future depends on those picks - no way we deal them for Brook freakin' Lopez.

Besides, the article snippet seems to indicate that BKN could just start over, like the trade never happened - which is laughable. Also, we took on years of Gerald Wallace - at least 1 1/2 of those picks had to go to covering his contract.

[Moranis]

The arguments for the Nets being decent this season come off as pretty lazy in this ongoing debate. At least we get to see the crappy product in action starting tonight.

I think there are plenty of reasons to believe the Nets could be a borderline playoff team this.  They start with Lopez who is one of the best interior scorers in the world.  Young is a pretty good counterpart for Lopez at the 4.  They showed that at the end of last year when they seemed to come together.  Bargnani couldn't defend a chair, but against second units should be able to be an above average scorer and won't look quite as bad defensively.  Robinson has oddly bounced around a bunch, but is a young talented player playing for a contract, you can never count that out.  RHJ is obviously a rookie, but he is a solid wing defender who could give them much of what Anderson gave them last year.  Bogdanovic should be improved in his second year, same with Karasev.  Ellington is a solid role player.  Jack is obviously a poor starting PG, but they will run the offense through Johnson, who can still score and who isn't that far removed from an all star appearance.  Larkin is a backup PG, that is what he is, but he is also young and PG's generally take time to develop, so perhaps he makes the leap.

The Nets are far from a title contender, but they aren't the dumpster fire that this board would make them seem.  A mid-30 win total is certainly possible.

[Eddie20]

The arguments for the Nets being decent this season come off as pretty lazy in this ongoing debate. At least we get to see the crappy product in action starting tonight.

I think there are plenty of reasons to believe the Nets could be a borderline playoff team this.  They start with Lopez who is one of the best interior scorers in the world.  Young is a pretty good counterpart for Lopez at the 4.  They showed that at the end of last year when they seemed to come together.  Bargnani couldn't defend a chair, but against second units should be able to be an above average scorer and won't look quite as bad defensively.  Robinson has oddly bounced around a bunch, but is a young talented player playing for a contract, you can never count that out.  RHJ is obviously a rookie, but he is a solid wing defender who could give them much of what Anderson gave them last year.  Bogdanovic should be improved in his second year, same with Karasev.  Ellington is a solid role player.  Jack is obviously a poor starting PG, but they will run the offense through Johnson, who can still score and who isn't that far removed from an all star appearance.  Larkin is a backup PG, that is what he is, but he is also young and PG's generally take time to develop, so perhaps he makes the leap.

The Nets are far from a title contender, but they aren't the dumpster fire that this board would make them seem.  A mid-30 win total is certainly possible.

It's not just this board though. It's literally everyone, everywhere.

Lowe

The Nets roster beyond Brook Lopez, Thad Young, and Joe Johnson is a train wreck, and the Young-Lopez front line isn’t stopping anyone. The Nets are one Lopez foot injury from being a sub-20-win team.

Newsday
2nd worst record in the east, only Sixers are predicted to be worse.

Marc Stein
Ranked 29th out of 30 teams

Instead of the title he vowed to win within five years and clinch eternal bachelorhood, Mikhail Prokhorov enters Season 6 as Nets owner as a single man -- because he never went through with that self-threat to find a wife -- facing a l-o-n-g wait 'til next summer's chance to get back into the open market as a big spender.

Vegas
Tied for 3rd worst odds to win the title.
Tied for 2nd worst odds to win the conference.

Nets fan site
http://thebrooklyngame.com/brooklyn-nets-2015-2016-season-preview-bad/

Record Prediction: 28-54, T-13th in East

New York Post

33-49, 3rd in Atlantic, 11th in East

6 different CSN writers

East: 1. Cavaliers; 2. Bulls; 3. Wizards; 4. Raptors; 5. Bucks; 6. Hawks; 7. Heat; 8. Pacers; 9. Celtics; 10. Hornets; 11. Pistons; 12. Knicks; 13. Magic; 14. Nets; 15. Sixers.

East: 1. Cavaliers; 2. Bucks; 3. Hawks; 4. Wizards; 5. Bulls; 6. Heat; 7. Celtics; 8. Raptors; 9. Pacers; 10. Magic; 11. Pistons; 12. Knicks; 13. Hornets; 14. Nets; 15. Sixers.

East: 1. Cavaliers; 2. Heat; 3. Bulls; 4. Hawks; 5. Wizards; 6. Bucks; 7. Raptors; 8. Pacers; 9. Celtics; 10. Pistons; 11. Magic; 12. Hornets; 13. Knicks; 14. Nets; 15. Sixers.

East: 1. Bulls; 2. Cavaliers; 3. Wizards; 4. Hawks; 5. Raptors; 6. Bucks; 7. Pacers; 8. Celtics; 9. Heat; 10. Magic; 11. Hornets; 12. Nets; 13. Knicks; 14. Pistons; 15. Sixers.

East: 1. Cavaliers; 2. Bulls; 3. Wizards; 4. Raptors; 5. Hawks; 6. Bucks; 7. Heat; 8. Celtics; 9. Pacers; 10. Nets; 11. Knicks; 12. Pistons; 13. Magic; 14. Hornets; 15. Sixers.

East: 1. Cavaliers; 2. Hawks; 3. Bulls; 4. Wizards; 5. Raptors; 6. Heat; 7. Bucks; 8. Celtics. 9. Pacers; 10. Hornets; 11. Pistons; 12. Knicks; 13. Nets; 14. Magic; 15. Sixers.

[celticsclay]

The arguments for the Nets being decent this season come off as pretty lazy in this ongoing debate. At least we get to see the crappy product in action starting tonight.

I think there are plenty of reasons to believe the Nets could be a borderline playoff team this.  They start with Lopez who is one of the best interior scorers in the world.  Young is a pretty good counterpart for Lopez at the 4.  They showed that at the end of last year when they seemed to come together.  Bargnani couldn't defend a chair, but against second units should be able to be an above average scorer and won't look quite as bad defensively.  Robinson has oddly bounced around a bunch, but is a young talented player playing for a contract, you can never count that out.  RHJ is obviously a rookie, but he is a solid wing defender who could give them much of what Anderson gave them last year.  Bogdanovic should be improved in his second year, same with Karasev.  Ellington is a solid role player.  Jack is obviously a poor starting PG, but they will run the offense through Johnson, who can still score and who isn't that far removed from an all star appearance.  Larkin is a backup PG, that is what he is, but he is also young and PG's generally take time to develop, so perhaps he makes the leap.

The Nets are far from a title contender, but they aren't the dumpster fire that this board would make them seem.  A mid-30 win total is certainly possible.

It's not just this board though. It's literally everyone, everywhere.

Lowe

The Nets roster beyond Brook Lopez, Thad Young, and Joe Johnson is a train wreck, and the Young-Lopez front line isn’t stopping anyone. The Nets are one Lopez foot injury from being a sub-20-win team.

Newsday
2nd worst record in the east, only Sixers are predicted to be worse.

Marc Stein
Ranked 29th out of 30 teams

Instead of the title he vowed to win within five years and clinch eternal bachelorhood, Mikhail Prokhorov enters Season 6 as Nets owner as a single man -- because he never went through with that self-threat to find a wife -- facing a l-o-n-g wait 'til next summer's chance to get back into the open market as a big spender.

Vegas
Tied for 3rd worst odds to win the title.
Tied for 2nd worst odds to win the conference.

Nets fan site
http://thebrooklyngame.com/brooklyn-nets-2015-2016-season-preview-bad/

Record Prediction: 28-54, T-13th in East

New York Post

33-49, 3rd in Atlantic, 11th in East

6 different CSN writers

East: 1. Cavaliers; 2. Bulls; 3. Wizards; 4. Raptors; 5. Bucks; 6. Hawks; 7. Heat; 8. Pacers; 9. Celtics; 10. Hornets; 11. Pistons; 12. Knicks; 13. Magic; 14. Nets; 15. Sixers.

East: 1. Cavaliers; 2. Bucks; 3. Hawks; 4. Wizards; 5. Bulls; 6. Heat; 7. Celtics; 8. Raptors; 9. Pacers; 10. Magic; 11. Pistons; 12. Knicks; 13. Hornets; 14. Nets; 15. Sixers.

East: 1. Cavaliers; 2. Heat; 3. Bulls; 4. Hawks; 5. Wizards; 6. Bucks; 7. Raptors; 8. Pacers; 9. Celtics; 10. Pistons; 11. Magic; 12. Hornets; 13. Knicks; 14. Nets; 15. Sixers.

East: 1. Bulls; 2. Cavaliers; 3. Wizards; 4. Hawks; 5. Raptors; 6. Bucks; 7. Pacers; 8. Celtics; 9. Heat; 10. Magic; 11. Hornets; 12. Nets; 13. Knicks; 14. Pistons; 15. Sixers.

East: 1. Cavaliers; 2. Bulls; 3. Wizards; 4. Raptors; 5. Hawks; 6. Bucks; 7. Heat; 8. Celtics; 9. Pacers; 10. Nets; 11. Knicks; 12. Pistons; 13. Magic; 14. Hornets; 15. Sixers.

East: 1. Cavaliers; 2. Hawks; 3. Bulls; 4. Wizards; 5. Raptors; 6. Heat; 7. Bucks; 8. Celtics. 9. Pacers; 10. Hornets; 11. Pistons; 12. Knicks; 13. Nets; 14. Magic; 15. Sixers.

Bravo Eddy Bravo. That is a TP and indefinite future ones. This is kind of the point I have been making for months on here. It is not celtics fans, celtics blog, or optimists that view the Nets as being a horrible team. It is literally every where you could look to find a prediction for them, whether that be statistical models, national writers, local writers, their own fans or us.

We have a few fans on here that have really dug in their heels on this and trotted out the same tired arguments that this forum views them as a bad team, when in reality, every objective or subjective measure out there also does the same.

Thank god we get to see the trainwreck start tonight and it is no longer hypothetical.

[snively]

I think I'd give them their 2017 swap rights or 2018 pick back for Lopez. This year's pick stays.

Without Lopez, they'd be in pretty rough shape... and might even live up to the bottom 10 projections.   So I could see the logic in moving 2018 + the 2017 pick swap for Lopez.   He looked good the second half of last season... 19.7 points, 9.2 rebounds, 1.8 blocks on 53% shooting and 82% from the line.  I still don't think Brooklyn will be as bad as people think.

I'm just struggling to think of 3, let alone 5 teams that will be worse than Brooklyn in the East? Philly, Magic and maybe New York...?  I mean I'd take a team with Afflalo, Calderon, Carmelo, Robin Lopez and Porzingris over Brook Lopez, Thad Young and Joe Johnson...
Who are the Nets currently better than?

I'm either entirely thick or missing something.   Aside from Deron Williams (who most admit is borderline washed up), how is this team different than the one that finished the season?  Plumlee was down to 13 minutes per game during the final month and 8mpg during the playoffs... so him leaving isn't the reason, is it?

Brooklyn was a poorly coached team.  Brook Lopez spent half the season coming off the bench.  Over the second half, he averaged 19.7 points, 9.2 rebounds, 1.8 blocks on 53% shooting and 82% from the line.  They had Thad Young for 28 games and he avearged 14 points, 6 rebounds, 1.4 assists and 1.4 steals... Joe Johnson was still an effective 14.4 points, 4.8 rebounds, 3.7 assists... in the playoffs he averaged 17 points, 8 rebounds, 5 assists and a steal.

Brooklyn finished the season 13-6.    They looked good.   But now everyone says they will be the worst team in the league?    I get that they lost Deron and Jarret Jack isn't the world's greatest PG.   I get that the addition of Bargnani isn't anything to be concerned about (though he averaged 16.2 points, 4.6 rebounds, 1.8 assists, 1 block on 46%/37%/83% shooting over the second half of the season) ...  but why am I the only person who thinks a team that has made the playoffs 4 years in a row and has literally nothing to lose probably isn't going to be the worst team in the league?

I still think everyone's projections are contingent on the idea that Lopez re-injures himself.  Everyone acts like it's a foregone conclusion. 

1. Deron Williams was nowhere near as good as he used to be, but he was still arguably their best player (his 14-15 real plus-minus was the best on the team by a substantial margin).

2. Jarrett Jack is taking Deron Williams minutes and he's an advanced stat nightmare. The Nets were awful with him on the floor (as the Cavs were the year before).

3. Shane Larkin is taking Jack's minutes and he's even worse than Jack! What the Nets did to their PG position is the equivalent of the Hawks replacing Jeff Teague with Raymond Felton and Phil Pressey.

4. Joe Johnson is one more year older and ended the last season looking like a scrub.

5. Their 13-6 record came against crap competition (they lost their 3 road games against playoff teams by an average of 27 points during that stretch) and a big part of their success was Deron Williams' ability to get Brook Lopez easy shots in pick and roll (something Jack failed to do all season) and stretch the floor (something that neither Jack nor Larkin can do).

6. They replaced their weak back-up bigs (Teletovic, Plumlee, Jefferson) with horrific ones: Bargnani and T-Rob were horror shows last year.

7. Alan Anderson was very underrated for what he brought to the team last season. He's a tough defender that has a decent perimeter game and brought some nastiness.

8. Lopez and Young were in contract seasons. The importance of this can't be measured.

9. Lopez played 72 games. His last 4 seasons he's played in 5, 74, 17, and 72. So this could be the year he misses significant time. Regardless, it's a safe bet to say he misses considerable time the next 3 seasons, which is why I wouldn't deal 1 of those picks, let alone all 3, back for a poor defender, below average rebounder, who has injury issues, and doesn't fit the system.

I think I need to recruit you for my Nets blog.