Poll: Who would you take moving forward Randle or Smart

[BDeCosta26]

Randle's stats from tonight:

Randle: 3 pts, 2 rebs, 1 asts, 1-4 FG, 5 TO, -27

Smart's weren't much better tonight, but those are some pretty God-awful numbers.

Very true, and at least Smart has a positive impact regardless of his contributions on offense. Randle is a very poor defender. If he's not generating points/rebounds, he's hurting your team. Smart can score 3 points and have a very positive impact on your team with his D.

Seriously, Smart is one of the best defenders I've ever seen at his age. His instincts and anticipation on that end are incredible. Randle is going to have to become one hell of an offensive player to be better than what Smart is on both ends of the court.

[droopdog7]

And no, I don t really believe that guys improve their skills all that much in the nba.

How much time have you spent watching the NBA game?

Seriously,

It took Lebron years to become a credible shooter. It took Curry a few years to become a good passer. Players do work on their craft and improve weaknesses.

My point is, any improvement you see in nba players is incremental.  If you look at smart and what he needs to get better, he almost has to transform into another guy offensively.  We're asking him to go from below average in just about everything to above average. Not to mention his subpar athleticism.  To put it bluntly, that just isn't going to happen.

And I love it when fans pull out comps for what can be done and go straight to the superstars, the outliers.  First of all, lebrons shooting has gotten incrementally better; he want terrible and he's now not great.  Now look at the players on our own team.  How much better have they gotten?  What part of their game did they transform?  How long did we wait for rondo to develop a jump shot?  At his peak, he was essentially the same player with the same skills as when he came in.  How about sully; what has he changed?  Nothing at all really.  You might say shooting threes but that capability was always there; he's just taking them now.  Avery?  A little better and his skills and more confident and a little higher up the totem pole; that's it.  And don't say shooting because he always had that skill, just needed confidence.

Look at our entire roster and tell me who transformed their game?  Who turned a weakness into a strength.  Who became more athletic?  Who went from bad shooter, ball handler, etc. to good?  Nobody really.

So that's my point.  Smart has a lot of weaknesses in offense.  While he may improve a little, it won't (can't) be enough for him to significantly change what he is.

[Rondo9]

And no, I don t really believe that guys improve their skills all that much in the nba.

How much time have you spent watching the NBA game?

Seriously,

It took Lebron years to become a credible shooter. It took Curry a few years to become a good passer. Players do work on their craft and improve weaknesses.

My point is, any improvement you see in nba players is incremental.  If you look at smart and what he needs to get better, he almost has to transform into another guy offensively.  We're asking him to go from below average in just about everything to above average. Not to mention his subpar athleticism.  To put it bluntly, that just isn't going to happen.

And I love it when fans pull out comps for what can be done and go straight to the superstars, the outliers.  First of all, lebrons shooting has gotten incrementally better; he want terrible and he's now not great.  Now look at the players on our own team.  How much better have they gotten?  What part of their game did they transform?  How long did we wait for rondo to develop a jump shot?  At his peak, he was essentially the same player with the same skills as when he came in.  How about sully; what has he changed?  Nothing at all really.  You might say shooting threes but that capability was always there; he's just taking them now.  Avery?  A little better and his skills and more confident and a little higher up the totem pole; that's it.  And don't say shooting because he always had that skill, just needed confidence.

Look at our entire roster and tell me who transformed their game?  Who turned a weakness into a strength.  Who became more athletic?  Who went from bad shooter, ball handler, etc. to good?  Nobody really.

So that's my point.  Smart has a lot of weaknesses in offense.  While he may improve a little, it won't (can't) be enough for him to significantly change what he is.

You can't control athleticism and Rondo had a decent mid range jumper for a while and have you seen Bradley? He couldn't shoot at all in his first two years in the league, but now he's solid from three. You never seen Lebron shoot the ball? He went from bad to shooting 40 percent from three to the point when the Spurs tried to lay off of him he kept draining jumpers.

[moiso]

I think it was a confidence thing with Bradley his first couple years.  He always looked good shooting around before the games.

[droopdog7]

I think it was a confidence thing with Bradley his first couple years.  He always looked good shooting around before the games.

Yes, look at the scouting report for Bradley coming in.  His early struggles with the team were 100% confidence.

[LarBrd33]

When I said we'd need to revisit this at some point, I wasn't suggesting we do it after literally every game.  Both of these guys will have good and bad games.   Randle had foul trouble that kept him in for only 16 minutes last night.  Smart shot 1-8.   Inevitably they will both have good games.   

My only point was that Randle was being completely dismissed as a bust before he had played a game.  We passed on randle for smart... Randle has talent.  It's something to keep an eye on.  This will be a lot more interesting in a couple months... Not after game 2.  At this point it seems smart's offense is as bad as randle's defense.  Who knows what kind of improvements they can make over the course of the season.

Also you might as well track nik stauskas at this point as well. He's another player Ainge liked... He went right after smart and randle.  He played 19 minutes last night and had a very effective 12 points, 3 rebounds and 2 assists on excellent shooting.  Wouldn't be entirely shocked to see his stats jump this season as he's going to have huge opportunities in Philly (he's expected to start eventually).

[Rondo9]

I think it was a confidence thing with Bradley his first couple years.  He always looked good shooting around before the games.

Yes, look at the scouting report for Bradley coming in.  His early struggles with the team were 100% confidence.

Even then it's still a weakness he had to overcome because it was affecting his game

[droopdog7]

I think it was a confidence thing with Bradley his first couple years.  He always looked good shooting around before the games.

Yes, look at the scouting report for Bradley coming in.  His early struggles with the team were 100% confidence.

Even then it's still a weakness he had to overcome because it was affecting his game

Huge difference between that and an actual basketball skill.

[Moranis]

Smart appears to be more in the Bradley mold than a legit PG.  His passing and ball handling skills just aren't very good and you generally don't get much better at those in the NBA (shooting, sure, but not passing or dribbling).  I think the sooner Boston comes to that realization the better.

Randle had an excellent game last night.  Showed his true potential going for 22 p, 15 r, 4 a, 4 s, and 1 b, also just 2 t and 2 f, and he was +2 while the Lakers lost by 10.

[moiso]

When I said we'd need to revisit this at some point, I wasn't suggesting we do it after literally every game.  Both of these guys will have good and bad games.   Randle had foul trouble that kept him in for only 16 minutes last night.  Smart shot 1-8.   Inevitably they will both have good games.   

My only point was that Randle was being completely dismissed as a bust before he had played a game.  We passed on randle for smart... Randle has talent.  It's something to keep an eye on.  This will be a lot more interesting in a couple months... Not after game 2.  At this point it seems smart's offense is as bad as randle's defense.  Who knows what kind of improvements they can make over the course of the season.

Also you might as well track nik stauskas at this point as well. He's another player Ainge liked... He went right after smart and randle.  He played 19 minutes last night and had a very effective 12 points, 3 rebounds and 2 assists on excellent shooting.  Wouldn't be entirely shocked to see his stats jump this season as he's going to have huge opportunities in Philly (he's expected to start eventually).

The player I most judge Smart against in that draft is Elfrid Payton, since he plays the same position.  At the time of the draft a lot of scouts were down on Randle and thought Payton would be the sleeper of the draft.

[Rondo9]

Smart appears to be more in the Bradley mold than a legit PG.  His passing and ball handling skills just aren't very good and you generally don't get much better at those in the NBA (shooting, sure, but not passing or dribbling).  I think the sooner Boston comes to that realization the better.

Randle had an excellent game last night.  Showed his true potential going for 22 p, 15 r, 4 a, 4 s, and 1 b, also just 2 t and 2 f, and he was +2 while the Lakers lost by 10.

Smart is a way better ball handler and passer than Bradley

[chambers]

Smart appears to be more in the Bradley mold than a legit PG.  His passing and ball handling skills just aren't very good and you generally don't get much better at those in the NBA (shooting, sure, but not passing or dribbling).  I think the sooner Boston comes to that realization the better.

Randle had an excellent game last night.  Showed his true potential going for 22 p, 15 r, 4 a, 4 s, and 1 b, also just 2 t and 2 f, and he was +2 while the Lakers lost by 10.

I've got to disagree with you. Smart's got a far superior ability at the PG position, and far more potential on the offensive end in general than Avery ever had. His ball control is already ahead of Bradley's and he's shown the ability to get to the hole a far greater % of his total time on the court compared to Bradley's at PG and SG.
The reason Smart is better is because he has better offensive awareness and can make the best decision the majority of the time. His passing is incredible sometimes and his ability to see things before they happen is what separates him from the slasher/cutter/jumpshot guard game of Avery Bradley.
 Remember that Smart is in his 2nd year at age 21. As the season goes on he will become more comfortable with the flow of the game at the PG position and use that awareness (that he uses so well defensively) combined with his strength/size gorilla-like athleticism to get to the free throw line and run the pick and roll.

Year one for Smart: understand how the offense is interpreted from both guard positions, while working on shooting mechanics and shot selection. Much of that learning came without the ball in his hands- understanding the routes his wing team mates will have to run and the timing involved coming off picks, putting the ball in the right place etc...

Year two is about specific offensive development with the ball in his hands and getting it to his team mates. The other parts of year two will be
a) run the pick and roll and read defenses to help get into the paint and thus to the line as he did in college.
b) to keep developing the 3 point shot and his free throw technique.


But yeah, Smart and Bradley are worlds apart on the offensive end. One is a playmaker with a proven record at the college level, the other is a jumpshooting specialist that's struggled mightily to develop a dribble drive game. Ironically Avery Bradley actually took the ball to the hole a few times vs the Spurs which was a pleasant surprise.

[fairweatherfan]

Smart appears to be more in the Bradley mold than a legit PG.  His passing and ball handling skills just aren't very good and you generally don't get much better at those in the NBA (shooting, sure, but not passing or dribbling).  I think the sooner Boston comes to that realization the better.

Randle had an excellent game last night.  Showed his true potential going for 22 p, 15 r, 4 a, 4 s, and 1 b, also just 2 t and 2 f, and he was +2 while the Lakers lost by 10.

Randle looked good on offense and the boards, and knocked some balls away on D, but the guy he was guarding (Dirk) more than negated his scoring, getting 25 pts on 13 shots vs Randle's 22 on 17.  Meanwhile San Antonio's starting backcourt (Smart guarded both for stretches) were held to 10 pts on 16 shots.  Of course AB helped with that too, but you get the idea.

It's kinda interesting, we have pretty good D but our offense has been pretty ugly, so it's easy to want a guy like Randle who can make his own shot despite being a poor defender.  Meanwhile LA has a ton of me-first chuckers in their backcourt and little defense, so they might prefer Smart over Randle right now because they're desperate for backcourt D. 

[Fafnir]

I don't know if Randle will ever be able to defend both individually and more importantly provide team defense. Smart has similar issues as to if he can be your starting PG unless you have a big time SG/SF creator at this point.

I guess I have more faith in Smart's chance of improving his issue.

[cb8883]

Randle is proving to be a force. Ainge might be looking at another Greek Freak/Olynyk mistake. Terrible. Marcus is not a true PG those handles are not good.