Poll: Who would you take moving forward Randle or Smart

[PhoSita]

Randle's a nice player, but choosing him isn't Smart.

He's Okayfor a rookie

(? am I doing it right ?)

 

[Granath]

Marcus Smart scored an efficient 13 points on 8 shot attempts with 5 assists and only 1 turnover.  He added 2 rebs, 2 steals, and a block.  He was 3 of 6 from deep.

As mentioned above, he was +22 for the game.  Of course, as always, he was a monster defensively.

I didn't see the Lakers game, but I have my doubts that Julius Randle looked better than our starting point guard last night.

He didn't and the Lakers lost. Just expect cb883 to always whine about this. Any time Randle has even a moderately good game I'm sure he'll let us all know.

In the meanwhile, the Cs are 1-0 and Marcus Smart is clearly one of the leaders of this team on and off the court.

First game of the year and cb is back like clockwork... Truly amazing stuff. I actually have a theory about him. cb stands for Celticsblog, so it's almost as though his user is a satirical persona of the arguments against this blog, that we always overrate other team's prospects, down our own, make up ridiculous trades, etc as shown in his posts. Seriously he was and might still be calling Marcus Smart Marcus Banks. It's just comical...

Randle is an all-star talent while Marcus has the ceiling of a nice role player. You green teamers are delusional! If you had to draft all over again 99% of you would take Randle. I'm just telling it how it is. I sat here last year and said "role player" Rondo all season and people on this board swore up and down he's a star player. Who was right?

I was right because I said Rondo probably wouldn't regain his form and he didn't. But then I wasn't the only one. MANY of us said that. You don't get to claim sole credit for it. But then again, you're also the same guy who said Rondo was a role player but then kept wondering why Danny couldn't flip him for a lottery pick (what marvelous logic!). You also said that trading Rondo "helps the tank" and the Cs made the playoffs. So much for your predictions.

You're trying to deflect from your own stupidity for calling Marcus Smart "Banks 2.0" for the last two years. How's that working out for you now? Meanwhile, Randle has exactly TWO NBA games under his belt while Smart helped the team make the playoffs and is an exceptionally valuable player on both ends of the court.

Now that doesn't mean Randle won't end up being a great player and better than Smart. No one who has even half a brain could make that determination at this juncture. But realize this - in choosing Randle, you also forego a full year of Smart's contributions already. If this were a race, Smart's already at the first turn while Randle is just leaving the starting line. Thus, I think you're about the only one who would take Randle right now because most of us like making the playoffs - something that wouldn't have happened without Smart.

[esel1000]

Marcus Smart scored an efficient 13 points on 8 shot attempts with 5 assists and only 1 turnover.  He added 2 rebs, 2 steals, and a block.  He was 3 of 6 from deep.

As mentioned above, he was +22 for the game.  Of course, as always, he was a monster defensively.

I didn't see the Lakers game, but I have my doubts that Julius Randle looked better than our starting point guard last night.

He didn't and the Lakers lost. Just expect cb883 to always whine about this. Any time Randle has even a moderately good game I'm sure he'll let us all know.

In the meanwhile, the Cs are 1-0 and Marcus Smart is clearly one of the leaders of this team on and off the court.

First game of the year and cb is back like clockwork... Truly amazing stuff. I actually have a theory about him. cb stands for Celticsblog, so it's almost as though his user is a satirical persona of the arguments against this blog, that we always overrate other team's prospects, down our own, make up ridiculous trades, etc as shown in his posts. Seriously he was and might still be calling Marcus Smart Marcus Banks. It's just comical...

Randle is an all-star talent while Marcus has the ceiling of a nice role player. You green teamers are delusional! If you had to draft all over again 99% of you would take Randle. I'm just telling it how it is. I sat here last year and said "role player" Rondo all season and people on this board swore up and down he's a star player. Who was right?

The only delusional one here is you and this Nostradamus act claiming with certainty that Randle is the second coming while Smart is a scrub. That's just not you btw there are definitely a variety of people that feel that way and it just doesn't make sense... We can have this conversation in a few years but right now none of us have any idea which will end up a better overall player down the road. I think Smart will, but that's based on what I've seen and his potential... but I'm not going to sit here and say "Smart is so much better than Randle and always will be" because I have no idea and neither do you. Maybe they'll both be great players?

Guess this is also in response to the original question... too early to tell.

[wiley]

Smart's all around game plus intangibles will dwarf Randle's contributions in the end.  That said, it would be nice to have both. 

Why not whine about Antetokounpo instead of this?  Have you seen's Smart's effect on the game?  On the other team?  He's a guy opponents hate to play.

[MJohnnyboy]

Smart's all around game plus intangibles will dwarf Randle's contributions in the end.  That said, it would be nice to have both. 

Why not whine about Antetokounpo instead of this?  Have you seen's Smart's effect on the game?  On the other team?  He's a guy opponents hate to play.

Oh don't worry, there will be plenty of that this season. Trust me.

As far as Smart vs. Randle goes, who the hell is anyone to say they know what's going to happen and that others are delusional? These guys are just starting their second season. I'm high on both young players but they both bring different skills to their teams.

Right now, I see Randle as more offensively polished than Smart is right now. He has good body control, a very good athlete and looks like he has an intense love of the game. He looks like he'll put the ball in the basket. Unfortunately he's a defensive scrub, and on a team like the Lakers who don't really have much to brag about about defensively outside of Roy Hibbert, that's going to stick out. Nonetheless, Danny tried to pry him away from the Lakers for Rondo, so clearly Danny sees his potential as a player.

Smart on the other hand is a better two-way player than Randle. Randle may be better offensively, but not by a landslide. I see Smart improving his playmaking abilities (also have to remember he hurt his ankle early on last year) and hitting some of his offensive potential. Defensively it is a landslide. Smart is by far a better defender than Randle and is already one of the league's best defensive guards in just his second year. His improved offense will be an added bonus to this shut-down defense. Also Smart shares Randle's love of the game.

I even feel sorry for Randle because he's being brought up in a broken system. He's going to have to force his way into the offense thanks to the amount of trigger-happy guards his team has. He has a crappy coach, he's on one of the league's worst teams, and he's going to get verbally abused by Kobe Bryant night in and night out.

Smart on the other hand is being brought up in a great system. He's being brought up piece by piece to be his team's guard of the future. He plays for a phenomenal coach, he'll get plenty of playoff experience in the next few years (atleast compared to Randle), and he has great teammates around him.

Finally, how did last night prove anything? Last time I checked, Smart was +22 in a blowout victory against an awful team. Randle was +2 in a loss to another awful team at home. If we go by that logic then that means Lamarcus Aldridge is really going to suck for the Spurs, and Derrick Williams is going to be the best addition of the summer.

[fandrew]

Randle broke his leg in like the first game of last season. How about we wait to see what he can do. This is pretty much his rookie year, after all.

[vjcsmoke]

LOL, are you sure you're not a Lakers fan?  Randle scored a grand total of 2 points in an injury plagued rookie season.  Scores 15 points on just 38% shooting in game 1 of his sophomore season and you are already proclaiming him an all-star?  *SMH*

Randle is an all-star talent while Marcus has the ceiling of a nice role player. You green teamers are delusional! If you had to draft all over again 99% of you would take Randle. I'm just telling it how it is. I sat here last year and said "role player" Rondo all season and people on this board swore up and down he's a star player. Who was right?

[cb8883]

Marcus Smart scored an efficient 13 points on 8 shot attempts with 5 assists and only 1 turnover.  He added 2 rebs, 2 steals, and a block.  He was 3 of 6 from deep.

As mentioned above, he was +22 for the game.  Of course, as always, he was a monster defensively.

I didn't see the Lakers game, but I have my doubts that Julius Randle looked better than our starting point guard last night.

He didn't and the Lakers lost. Just expect cb883 to always whine about this. Any time Randle has even a moderately good game I'm sure he'll let us all know.

In the meanwhile, the Cs are 1-0 and Marcus Smart is clearly one of the leaders of this team on and off the court.

First game of the year and cb is back like clockwork... Truly amazing stuff. I actually have a theory about him. cb stands for Celticsblog, so it's almost as though his user is a satirical persona of the arguments against this blog, that we always overrate other team's prospects, down our own, make up ridiculous trades, etc as shown in his posts. Seriously he was and might still be calling Marcus Smart Marcus Banks. It's just comical...

Randle is an all-star talent while Marcus has the ceiling of a nice role player. You green teamers are delusional! If you had to draft all over again 99% of you would take Randle. I'm just telling it how it is. I sat here last year and said "role player" Rondo all season and people on this board swore up and down he's a star player. Who was right?

I was right because I said Rondo probably wouldn't regain his form and he didn't. But then I wasn't the only one. MANY of us said that. You don't get to claim sole credit for it. But then again, you're also the same guy who said Rondo was a role player but then kept wondering why Danny couldn't flip him for a lottery pick (what marvelous logic!). You also said that trading Rondo "helps the tank" and the Cs made the playoffs. So much for your predictions.

You're trying to deflect from your own stupidity for calling Marcus Smart "Banks 2.0" for the last two years. How's that working out for you now? Meanwhile, Randle has exactly TWO NBA games under his belt while Smart helped the team make the playoffs and is an exceptionally valuable player on both ends of the court.

Now that doesn't mean Randle won't end up being a great player and better than Smart. No one who has even half a brain could make that determination at this juncture. But realize this - in choosing Randle, you also forego a full year of Smart's contributions already. If this were a race, Smart's already at the first turn while Randle is just leaving the starting line. Thus, I think you're about the only one who would take Randle right now because most of us like making the playoffs - something that wouldn't have happened without Smart.

I never claimed Rondo could get a lotto pick. I was on here saying dump him for whatever you could get and make Pressey the PG. This would help the tank. As for Banks and Banks 2.0 both had/have busted shots. I'm the furthest thing from a Lakers fan, I just hate seeing this team going on the treadmill. The best way to do that is get stars. The Lakers have two young potential all stars and the Celtics have none. The best way for this team to do it is tank. Imagine having the young talent that Philly has with Stevens as coach? Okafor and Noel? My god. You can keep Marcus, I'll take Okafor Randle Noel or any talented big any day of the week.

Let me ask you something. Would you consider Noel to be a better player than Olynyk right now?

I'm curious since they were in the same class but KO had a full year of experience over him.

[Granath]

I never claimed Rondo could get a lotto pick.

A quick search shows that you were wondering why Danny couldn't trade Rondo to the Lakers, who ended up as a lottery team. Please try again.

I was on here saying dump him for whatever you could get and make Pressey the PG. This would help the tank.

Playoffs > Tank for many reasons. If I have to explain them all to you I'll do so, but to start winning breeds winning.

As for Banks and Banks 2.0 both had/have busted shots.

There you go again. They're not the same player. They're not even close to the same type of player in so many ways. Yet you keep repeating that phrase.

Let me be blunt. It's not clever. It's ignorant. It's inaccurate. It's stupid. Anyone who keeps repeating it is either trolling or an absolute moron. You get to choose which one you're trying to be.

I'm the furthest thing from a Lakers fan, I just hate seeing this team going on the treadmill. The best way to do that is get stars. The Lakers have two young potential all stars and the Celtics have none. The best way for this team to do it is tank. Imagine having the young talent that Philly has with Stevens as coach? Okafor and Noel? My god. You can keep Marcus, I'll take Okafor Randle Noel or any talented big any day of the week.

Yes, you like losing. We get that. Most of us don't. The team improved by about 15 wins last year. Exactly how is that a "treadmill"?

Here's another hint - there's not just one way to build a team. Yes, it's very easy if you get exceptionally lucky in the lottery by drawing a high pick AND then drafting a great player. But it depends almost entirely on luck. The Cs have tried that a couple of times and it didn't work out. Instead, Danny has demonstrated he can put together a solid team without a star. Now he has the chance of getting a top pick (BKYN picks), trading for one (with multiple first round picks and young talent) or attracting one in free agency (which is unlikely but not impossible). I'll take multiple options and building on a solid foundation rather than stripping the team to nothing and hoping for the leprechaun to come around again.

Okafor and Noel look to be good players, no doubt. Let's see how this all shakes out. Let's see if Philly can turn around their culture of losing. Let's see if those guys stick around and stay motivated losing 60 games a year.

Also, who the heck are the Lakers future All-Stars? One guy who has played in two games and one guy who has played in one? Are you seriously that delusional? Scratch that...you probably are.

Let me ask you something. Would you consider Noel to be a better player than Olynyk right now?

I'm curious since they were in the same class but KO had a full year of experience over him.

The answer is obvious. What's your point?

You know, you're entitled to have a different opinion. You're not entitled to ignore facts while spouting off bullcrap and then not expect to get called on it.

[droopdog7]

Defensively Smart is as advertised; very very good.  Offensively he is not even an NBA player.  He has not position, can't shoot, can't drive to the basket, and can't finish.  Bottom line is you take the better offensive player, who also happens to be a big, over defensive small player.

[droopdog7]

One more thing; people should ask themselves this question (and I don't know the answer).  But is the any laker board anywhere asking this same question (one that has been asked in various forms a few times here)?  I would guess that the answer is no, because they probably don't feel like this is even a debate.  And they are not looking back with regret over passing on a guy that might be significantly better.

[PhoSita]

One more thing; people should ask themselves this question (and I don't know the answer).  But is the any laker board anywhere asking this same question (one that has been asked in various forms a few times here)?  I would guess that the answer is no, because they probably don't feel like this is even a debate.  And they are not looking back with regret over passing on a guy that might be significantly better.

Uhm, it's not a question for Lakers fans because they picked after us.

[Evantime34]

Defensively Smart is as advertised; very very good.  Offensively he is not even an NBA player.  He has not position, can't shoot, can't drive to the basket, and can't finish.  Bottom line is you take the better offensive player, who also happens to be a big, over defensive small player.

One more thing; people should ask themselves this question (and I don't know the answer).  But is the any laker board anywhere asking this same question (one that has been asked in various forms a few times here)?  I would guess that the answer is no, because they probably don't feel like this is even a debate.  And they are not looking back with regret over passing on a guy that might be significantly better.

Personally I don't take the better offensive player, I take the player that better drives wins. Smart's net rating shows a guy that causes his team to play better when he is on the court. That is why statistical models like him so much. Randle could end up effecting his team's output in the same way, but I doubt he will.

As to your second post. It could be taken in two ways 1. Is that Randle is clearly better because the Lakers don't have this discussion (which is the point you were trying to make) 2. The Lakers fans are no where near as self hating as us so they would always support their own player.

If Smart doesn't have a better RPM than Randle at the end of the season I will come back to this thread and tell you that you are right. Now you might say RPM is just a stat, but then you wouldn't be acknowledging what it represents. RPM is essentially plus minus in which the numbers are broken down independent of teammates and opponents. It is essentially identifying how much a player causes his team to win. There is a reason Smart was at top 10 point guard as a rookie in this metric.

[PhoSita]

Offensively he is not even an NBA player.  He has not position, can't shoot, can't drive to the basket, and can't finish. 

Smart had a .49 TS% in his rookie season, which is better than lots and lots of players in the NBA, many of them veterans.

He shot 56% within 3 feet of the basket, which is not bad for a guard, especially a rookie.  He shot 38% from 10-16 feet, which is not great, but approaching respectable.  He shot 33% from deep, which is a break-even rate (i.e. keeps defenses honest, at least). 

That last number is especially impressive since he came in as a guard who wasn't supposed to be able to shoot and yet he took 57% of his shots from three point land and had a 1.0 point-per-shot efficiency on those attempts.


Really, there's no support whatsoever for your assertion that Smart isn't an NBA-caliber offensive player. 

[ThaPreacher]

I want both of these guys!
What would it take to get Randle away from the Lakers?
 
I still believe that had Randle returned to Boston for the 2nd work-out, Danny would have drafted him.
I wonder if we would be coveting Smart if he were on the LAKERS?