Whose rebuild is better? BOS vs LAL

[ahonui06]

Boston's rebuild is definitely better. More flexibility.

[oldtype]

Would anyone seriously swap positions with the Lakers right now?

Let's put it this way. If we wanted to do what the Lakers are doing right now we could do it easily within a year. Sell everyone who can play basketball except for say Marcus Smart, bottom out, draft somebody in the top 5. Boom! We have 2 dudes with potential now and nobody else who's even remotely useful. Just like the Lakers.

[LarBrd33]

Would anyone seriously swap positions with the Lakers right now?

I think it really depends on how you feel about D'Angelo Russell... who admittedly has looked underwhelming in pre-season and summerleague.   

But for reference, it was reported that Ainge was prepared to make a "godfather offer" if Okafor fell to #3:

A lot of rival executives believe Danny Ainge of the Boston Celtics is prepared to give a Godfather offer to get in there for Jahlil Okafor if he's available at 3 — including multiple first-round picks, potentially Marcus Smart, who knows what he'll put on the table,"

We already know Ainge was willing to give up all our draft picks (Rozier, Hunter, MIckey) + an unprotected Brooklyn pick just to trade up to take Winslow.   It seems he was willing to include Marcus Smart in a similar package to get his hands on Okafor.   

Well Russell was picked ahead of Okafor... so if you believe the logic path there, Russell must be significantly more valuable than Boston's lone star prospect (Smart)... and as I've been saying in this thread, I'm not sure Smart vs Randle is even a finished debate (though I'd obviously side witH Smart at this early juncture). 

So you're asking if anyone would swap with the Lakers.   Really, it depends on how you feel about Russell.  Much to the chagrin of folks here, Jordan Clarkson was selected ahead of Marcus SMart on the all-rookie team last year.   Julius Randle may in-fact be a special talent that I'd guess will make him a greater asset than any of your current PFs.   And D'Angelo Russell might be more valuable than Smart + all our rookies + best pick combined.

Long-term cap situations are somewhat similar between the teams (both teams have about 20mil committed next season... and the cap is expected to be about 90 mil so theoretically about 70 mil in cap space).   Boston definitely has more picks, but a lot is leaning on the idea that Brooklyn will stink...which isn't a guarantee.    If we're looking at a bunch of mid-to-late 1sts, those aren't all that impactful. 

Pure roster swap?  You'd have to really consider it based on D'Angelo Russell.  Short-term, Boston obviously has the advantage.  Long-term, it's not as clear.   There remains the possibility that Marcus Smart becomes better than any player on the Lakers right now.  I'm not counting on it, but I'm not ruling it out.   In terms of management/coaching/ownership, it's a no contest... Boston has the advantage.   But that doesn't matter if Smart peaks out as defensive role-player and D'Angelo Russell becomes the next Steph Curry. 

[mctyson]

LA has Randle and Russell.  That  alone means they have the better rebuild right now.  That said, they don't own their 1st this year and Boston has a ton of future 1sts coming its way so Boston has a lot more future assets in place, but as of now Randle and Russell give LA the edge.

Why is having Julius Randle, a guy who has never played an NBA game coming off a broken leg, better than having Marcus Smart?

[mctyson]

My guess is that if Cousins is traded, it's to the Lakers and Randle is the key piece.

Julius Randle cannot be considered the key piece in any trade for DeMarucs Cousins, else that would be the most lopsided trade in NBA history.

[Eddie20]

Would anyone seriously swap positions with the Lakers right now?

I think it really depends on how you feel about D'Angelo Russell... who admittedly has looked underwhelming in pre-season and summerleague.   

But for reference, it was reported that Ainge was prepared to make a "godfather offer" if Okafor fell to #3:

A lot of rival executives believe Danny Ainge of the Boston Celtics is prepared to give a Godfather offer to get in there for Jahlil Okafor if he's available at 3 — including multiple first-round picks, potentially Marcus Smart, who knows what he'll put on the table,"

We already know Ainge was willing to give up all our draft picks (Rozier, Hunter, MIckey) + an unprotected Brooklyn pick just to trade up to take Winslow.   It seems he was willing to include Marcus Smart in a similar package to get his hands on Okafor.   

Well Russell was picked ahead of Okafor... so if you believe the logic path there, Russell must be significantly more valuable than Boston's lone star prospect (Smart)... and as I've been saying in this thread, I'm not sure Smart vs Randle is even a finished debate (though I'd obviously side witH Smart at this early juncture). 

So you're asking if anyone would swap with the Lakers.   Really, it depends on how you feel about Russell.  Much to the chagrin of folks here, Jordan Clarkson was selected ahead of Marcus SMart on the all-rookie team last year.   Julius Randle may in-fact be a special talent that I'd guess will make him a greater asset than any of your current PFs.   And D'Angelo Russell might be more valuable than Smart + all our rookies + best pick combined.

Long-term cap situations are somewhat similar between the teams (both teams have about 20mil committed next season... and the cap is expected to be about 90 mil so theoretically about 70 mil in cap space).   Boston definitely has more picks, but a lot is leaning on the idea that Brooklyn will stink...which isn't a guarantee.    If we're looking at a bunch of mid-to-late 1sts, those aren't all that impactful. 

Pure roster swap?  You'd have to really consider it based on D'Angelo Russell.  Short-term, Boston obviously has the advantage.  Long-term, it's not as clear.   There remains the possibility that Marcus Smart becomes better than any player on the Lakers right now.  I'm not counting on it, but I'm not ruling it out.   In terms of management/coaching/ownership, it's a no contest... Boston has the advantage.   But that doesn't matter if Smart peaks out as defensive role-player and D'Angelo Russell becomes the next Steph Curry.

ESPN player rankings -In bold are players you often talk about.

Smart # 85

LOS ANGELES LAKERS
93. Kobe Bryant
98. Roy Hibbert
109. D'Angelo Russell
110. Lou Williams
137. Jordan Clarkson
155. Julius Randle
189. Brandon Bass
217. Nick Young
334. Ryan Kelly
335. Larry Nance Jr.
351. Jabari Brown
386. Tarik Black
392. Robert Sacre

PHILADELPHIA 76ERS
76. Nerlens Noel
90. Jahlil Okafor
N/R Joel Embiid

BROOKLYN NETS
(not ranked yet) Brook Lopez
102. Joe Johnson
105. Thaddeus Young

[PhoSita]

Not that the ESPN rankings mean much, but getting ranked in the top 200, let alone the top 100, for a first or second year player, is pretty significant.

I'd say the fact that the fact that Brook Lopez is still not yet ranked and Thad Young and Joe Johnson are on the cusp of being top 100 speaks to the perceived value of those three guys, which has been the whole basis of the "the Nets might not be so terrible" argument all along.

[mctyson]

We'll have to revisit this at some point.  Boston is closer to winning games right now, but Russell and Randle (yes Randle) both might be better long-term than our lone player with star potential (Smart). 

Our picks could make a big difference, though if Brooklyn and Dallas suck.

I think you have to give it to Boston right now.   Keep an eye on the Smart vs Randle debate, though.   A lot of folks liked Randle more before the draft.  I was one of them.  I got why we took Smart though... already had PF's and Rondo was on his way out.   Ainge himself has admitted that Randle had more talent, but he went with Smart, because he seemed to have the kind of mentality/drive that could turn an ok player into a great one.  For the past year, it's been a pretty one-sided argument with everyone unanimously believing Smart to be the better choice.   That debate isn't over.   Randle looks sensational in what I've seen so far.

Remember, Ainge wanted Randle back for another look in Boston.  He didn't come for the work-out.
That might have tipped the scales to Smart-a driven and aggressive player.  Randle has a boatloat of talent. It will be interesting if he can convert that into defined tangibles in  NBA play.

Who cares if the Celtics had Randle rated higher than Smart?  The question was:  is the Boston rebuild better than LAL right now?  I don't see how it is possible for anyone to take the LAL choice unless you think Russel will be a superstar.  I am fine with that rationale (I don't know enough about his game to say yes/no).

What I cannot understand is the infatuation with Randle, especially as a 'centerpiece' for acquiring an known MVP talent like Cousins.  Randle may wind up being a solid player, maybe even an All-Star, but I think his probability of achieving this is certainly equivalent to Marcus Smart at this point, especially since Randle missed his rookie season with a broken leg! 

So for the rebuild it comes down to this:  would you rather have Russel or have the Celtics handful of young players and a bunch of future good-but-not-great draft picks?  Would you also rather have Russel-Lakers, who may win 30 games this year, or the Smart-lead Celtics, who should win 45?

[Vox_Populi]

Not that the ESPN rankings mean much, but getting ranked in the top 200, let alone the top 100, for a first or second year player, is pretty significant.

I'd say the fact that the fact that Brook Lopez is still not yet ranked and Thad Young and Joe Johnson are on the cusp of being top 100 speaks to the perceived value of those three guys, which has been the whole basis of the "the Nets might not be so terrible" argument all along.

I'm not sure I understand. Because Lopez is a top 70 player, that means they may not be so terrible? They have the fewest amount of players (3) in the top 200 in the league. Joe Johnson and Thad Young are ranked below numerous rookie and second year players. Whether ESPN's rankings are notable or not, I don't see how it lays any credence to them not being a disaster.

[LarBrd33]

Would anyone seriously swap positions with the Lakers right now?

I think it really depends on how you feel about D'Angelo Russell... who admittedly has looked underwhelming in pre-season and summerleague.   

But for reference, it was reported that Ainge was prepared to make a "godfather offer" if Okafor fell to #3:

A lot of rival executives believe Danny Ainge of the Boston Celtics is prepared to give a Godfather offer to get in there for Jahlil Okafor if he's available at 3 — including multiple first-round picks, potentially Marcus Smart, who knows what he'll put on the table,"

We already know Ainge was willing to give up all our draft picks (Rozier, Hunter, MIckey) + an unprotected Brooklyn pick just to trade up to take Winslow.   It seems he was willing to include Marcus Smart in a similar package to get his hands on Okafor.   

Well Russell was picked ahead of Okafor... so if you believe the logic path there, Russell must be significantly more valuable than Boston's lone star prospect (Smart)... and as I've been saying in this thread, I'm not sure Smart vs Randle is even a finished debate (though I'd obviously side witH Smart at this early juncture). 

So you're asking if anyone would swap with the Lakers.   Really, it depends on how you feel about Russell.  Much to the chagrin of folks here, Jordan Clarkson was selected ahead of Marcus SMart on the all-rookie team last year.   Julius Randle may in-fact be a special talent that I'd guess will make him a greater asset than any of your current PFs.   And D'Angelo Russell might be more valuable than Smart + all our rookies + best pick combined.

Long-term cap situations are somewhat similar between the teams (both teams have about 20mil committed next season... and the cap is expected to be about 90 mil so theoretically about 70 mil in cap space).   Boston definitely has more picks, but a lot is leaning on the idea that Brooklyn will stink...which isn't a guarantee.    If we're looking at a bunch of mid-to-late 1sts, those aren't all that impactful. 

Pure roster swap?  You'd have to really consider it based on D'Angelo Russell.  Short-term, Boston obviously has the advantage.  Long-term, it's not as clear.   There remains the possibility that Marcus Smart becomes better than any player on the Lakers right now.  I'm not counting on it, but I'm not ruling it out.   In terms of management/coaching/ownership, it's a no contest... Boston has the advantage.   But that doesn't matter if Smart peaks out as defensive role-player and D'Angelo Russell becomes the next Steph Curry.

ESPN player rankings -In bold are players you often talk about.

Smart # 85

LOS ANGELES LAKERS
93. Kobe Bryant
98. Roy Hibbert
109. D'Angelo Russell
110. Lou Williams
137. Jordan Clarkson
155. Julius Randle
189. Brandon Bass
217. Nick Young
334. Ryan Kelly
335. Larry Nance Jr.
351. Jabari Brown
386. Tarik Black
392. Robert Sacre

PHILADELPHIA 76ERS
76. Nerlens Noel
90. Jahlil Okafor
N/R Joel Embiid

BROOKLYN NETS
(not ranked yet) Brook Lopez
102. Joe Johnson
105. Thaddeus Young

Thank you for this definitive list.  That should settle all debates heading forward.   

If NBA Gm's agreed with that nonsensical list, Jahlil Okafor would be a Celtic right now.

[SHAQATTACK]

Philly is the best of all.


























Not

[CelticsFanFromNYC]

Youth: Smart,  Rozier, Hunter, Mickey, Sully, KO, Young

Others worth noting:  IT, Lee, Amir, Turner, Zeller, Jerebko Edit, Bradley

Lakers Youth: Nick Young, Lou Williams, Clarkson, Randle, Russel, Holmes, Upshaw

Others worth noting: Bass, Hibbert, Kobe, World Peace

Factor in expendable contracts, draft picks, exception money,  the fact that Kobe won't be there for this.  what we did last season and what they did, all the millions of possibilities that we can do from here untill the next draft night. No way you don't want to be in the C's setup. Lakers are forced to play any hand they can obtain for any future and let the organizations rep do the rest. C's have options, Lakers have  2 decent young players who have a organization "almost riding" on their development . If one of our rookie bust, it really doesn't set us back  anything as close as  it will for the Lakers. That type of depth and  preparation is whats setting  these organizations apart.

[Eddie20]

Would anyone seriously swap positions with the Lakers right now?

I think it really depends on how you feel about D'Angelo Russell... who admittedly has looked underwhelming in pre-season and summerleague.   

But for reference, it was reported that Ainge was prepared to make a "godfather offer" if Okafor fell to #3:

A lot of rival executives believe Danny Ainge of the Boston Celtics is prepared to give a Godfather offer to get in there for Jahlil Okafor if he's available at 3 — including multiple first-round picks, potentially Marcus Smart, who knows what he'll put on the table,"

We already know Ainge was willing to give up all our draft picks (Rozier, Hunter, MIckey) + an unprotected Brooklyn pick just to trade up to take Winslow.   It seems he was willing to include Marcus Smart in a similar package to get his hands on Okafor.   

Well Russell was picked ahead of Okafor... so if you believe the logic path there, Russell must be significantly more valuable than Boston's lone star prospect (Smart)... and as I've been saying in this thread, I'm not sure Smart vs Randle is even a finished debate (though I'd obviously side witH Smart at this early juncture). 

So you're asking if anyone would swap with the Lakers.   Really, it depends on how you feel about Russell.  Much to the chagrin of folks here, Jordan Clarkson was selected ahead of Marcus SMart on the all-rookie team last year.   Julius Randle may in-fact be a special talent that I'd guess will make him a greater asset than any of your current PFs.   And D'Angelo Russell might be more valuable than Smart + all our rookies + best pick combined.

Long-term cap situations are somewhat similar between the teams (both teams have about 20mil committed next season... and the cap is expected to be about 90 mil so theoretically about 70 mil in cap space).   Boston definitely has more picks, but a lot is leaning on the idea that Brooklyn will stink...which isn't a guarantee.    If we're looking at a bunch of mid-to-late 1sts, those aren't all that impactful. 

Pure roster swap?  You'd have to really consider it based on D'Angelo Russell.  Short-term, Boston obviously has the advantage.  Long-term, it's not as clear.   There remains the possibility that Marcus Smart becomes better than any player on the Lakers right now.  I'm not counting on it, but I'm not ruling it out.   In terms of management/coaching/ownership, it's a no contest... Boston has the advantage.   But that doesn't matter if Smart peaks out as defensive role-player and D'Angelo Russell becomes the next Steph Curry.

ESPN player rankings -In bold are players you often talk about.

Smart # 85

LOS ANGELES LAKERS
93. Kobe Bryant
98. Roy Hibbert
109. D'Angelo Russell
110. Lou Williams
137. Jordan Clarkson
155. Julius Randle
189. Brandon Bass
217. Nick Young
334. Ryan Kelly
335. Larry Nance Jr.
351. Jabari Brown
386. Tarik Black
392. Robert Sacre

PHILADELPHIA 76ERS
76. Nerlens Noel
90. Jahlil Okafor
N/R Joel Embiid

BROOKLYN NETS
(not ranked yet) Brook Lopez
102. Joe Johnson
105. Thaddeus Young

Thank you for this definitive list.  That should settle all debates heading forward.   

If NBA Gm's agreed with that nonsensical list, Jahlil Okafor would be a Celtic right now.

Just a different point of view other than the back and forth often found here between C's fans and non-C's fans.

[MJohnnyboy]

Youth: Smart,  Rozier, Hunter, Mickey, Sully, KO, Young

Others worth noting:  IT, Lee, Amir, Turner, Zeller, Jerebko Edit, Bradley

Lakers Youth: Nick Young, Lou Williams, Clarkson, Randle, Russel, Holmes, Upshaw

Others worth noting: Bass, Hibbert, Kobe, World Peace

Nick Young and Lou Williams are both older than all the guys on your other list for the Celtics except for Lee, and their considered to be the Lakers' "youth"? The Lakers must be older than I thought.

[PhoSita]

Nick Young seems younger than he actually is because you don't expect an eight year veteran to be such an immature, me-first player.  But he was drafted in 2007.