Author Topic: A Glimpse At the Lineups?  (Read 4781 times)

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A Glimpse At the Lineups?
« on: September 30, 2015, 01:14:55 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Today in practice scrimmage, Stevens used the following starting lineups for the two teams, per Marc D'Amico:

Starting lineups:

Green - Thomas, Crowder, Jerebko, Johnson, Olynyk

White - Smart, Bradley, Turner, Lee, Zeller


Could these be the two main lineups that Stevens will use (Bench mob and starting lineup)?

The most interesting thing might be that Sully wasn't in either starting unit.  It seems like one of the bigs is going to sit pretty much the whole game on any given night.  I have a feeling Sully, Olynyk, and Mickey are going to be fighting it out for that last spot in the big rotation.


Another noticeable thing about the lineups is that Stevens put all three of the secondary ball-handlers in the rotation in one lineup, and then put shooters and cutters around Isaiah Thomas.  Makes sense.

It illustrates how the weaknesses of the team make it hard to craft lineups, however.  Turner can't play with IT because they both need the ball to be worth putting on the floor.  Smart and Bradley can't play together unless Turner is on the floor with them, because neither is a competent enough lead ball-handler.  IT can't play with Bradley too much because they give up too much size in the backcourt. 

Crowder and Jerebko have to be on the floor with Thomas or Turner for similar reasons -- neither can really run the pick and roll.


On the other hand, with Lee, Olynyk, and Sullinger, the Celts have three bigs with above average passing ability.  Zeller is no slouch in that area, either.  So they can make up some of their ball-handling deficiencies in lineups with two passing bigs.  Higher degree of difficulty to run the offense through big men, though.


Thinking about lineups with this team is reminiscent of playing a strategy board-game.  So many strengths and weaknesses to put together and cover up.  It's fun to think about, but also really shows why it's so hard to succeed without star players that make everything simple for the role players.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2015, 01:20:28 PM by PhoSita »
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Re: A Glimpse At the Lineups?
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2015, 01:20:24 PM »

Offline Lucky17

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That Green lineup looks untenable, no? No real secondary facilitator to Thomas. Crowder as a 0 and D shooting guard?

Swapping Bradley or Crowder for Turner would benefit both units, I think.
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Re: A Glimpse At the Lineups?
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2015, 01:21:45 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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That Green lineup looks untenable, no? No real secondary facilitator to Thomas. Crowder as a 0 and D shooting guard?

I think the idea is that Thomas would handle the ball pretty much exclusively and Crowder / Jerebko / Olynyk would space the floor.  Put IT in the pick and roll with Amir and try to make good things happen. 

Probably get the ball to Kelly at the elbow sometimes and let him facilitate to Crowder, Jerebko, and Amir cutting and moving around him.


If you look at the other lineup, it starts to make sense.  It's hard to put IT with Bradley or even Smart because it makes the team so small in the backcourt.  Plus, you can't put Turner with IT because they both need the ball to be effective. 

So you end up putting Smart and Bradley together with Turner as the ball-handler babysitter and then let IT dominate the touches on the second unit.
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Re: A Glimpse At the Lineups?
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2015, 01:29:56 PM »

Offline Lucky17

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I hear you: mixing and matching this roster is a game of both maximizing strengths and minimizing weaknesses.

While undersized, I think Bradley or Smart could complement IT in the backcourt, at least in terms of net gains on both sides of the ball. I agree that there's little gained from pairing IT with Turner, whose effectiveness without the ball is pretty low. That almost forces Stevens' hand.

Really want to see Smart grow this season into an effective multi-tool combo guard.
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Re: A Glimpse At the Lineups?
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2015, 01:36:30 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Really want to see Smart grow this season into an effective multi-tool combo guard.

Agreed.  If Smart can become a competent lead ball-handler, it would give the team freedom to move Turner, ideally for a sweet shooting wing with some size.  That would help the team offensively and it'd give Stevens more freedom mixing and matching lineups. 

If Rozier proves to be an NBA-ready ball-handler, at least on the second unit, that would be huge in that regard, as well.
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Re: A Glimpse At the Lineups?
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2015, 01:42:13 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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So, no Sullinger. I like it.
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Re: A Glimpse At the Lineups?
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2015, 01:48:14 PM »

Offline knuckleballer

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It looks like Stevens is sending Sully a message.

Re: A Glimpse At the Lineups?
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2015, 01:48:56 PM »

Offline littleteapot

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I can't imagine a Thomas/Jerebko/Crowder backcourt esp. with a frontcourt that can't shoot. It would be an interesting experiment for a team like Golden State to have a sparkplug PG with 4 shooting swingmen/big guys. But I don't think we're good enough defensively to justify Isaiah Thomas basically going 1 on 5 on offense. Not sure this would work with the HOFer Isiah Thomas for that matter.
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Re: A Glimpse At the Lineups?
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2015, 01:49:55 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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So, no Sullinger. I like it.

Yeah, doesn't look good for Sully, but maybe it's nothing, or a motivational tactic.
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Re: A Glimpse At the Lineups?
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2015, 01:51:36 PM »

Offline Lucky17

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So, no Sullinger. I like it.

Yeah, doesn't look good for Sully, but maybe it's nothing, or a motivational tactic.

Late for practice?
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Re: A Glimpse At the Lineups?
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2015, 01:52:41 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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Still feel starters will end up being
IT, AB, Turner, AJ, Zeller.

Re: A Glimpse At the Lineups?
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2015, 01:59:09 PM »

Offline clover

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That Green lineup looks untenable, no? No real secondary facilitator to Thomas. Crowder as a 0 and D shooting guard?

Swapping Bradley or Crowder for Turner would benefit both units, I think.

I love that Green lineup. Sure, there'll be times when someone else has to take Crowder's place, but KO is a secondary facilitator. KO and JJ stretch the floor. IT and AJ are a team on the PnR. Crowder and AJ help to make up for IT's D.

Re: A Glimpse At the Lineups?
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2015, 02:02:24 PM »

Offline littleteapot

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I don't think Crowder would be making up for Thomas's D. He'll just be chasing around the other team's shooting guard instead of guarding the guy he should be guarding.
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Re: A Glimpse At the Lineups?
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2015, 02:06:23 PM »

Offline blink

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Really want to see Smart grow this season into an effective multi-tool combo guard.

Agreed.  If Smart can become a competent lead ball-handler, it would give the team freedom to move Turner, ideally for a sweet shooting wing with some size.  That would help the team offensively and it'd give Stevens more freedom mixing and matching lineups. 

If Rozier proves to be an NBA-ready ball-handler, at least on the second unit, that would be huge in that regard, as well.

Yeah if both of those come true this year, then I am over the moon.  If we can get good contribution minutes by mid-season from Rozier it will really improve our lineup flexibility.

Re: A Glimpse At the Lineups?
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2015, 02:07:29 PM »

Offline Evantime34

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I really like the Green team, but I really hope the White team isn't on the court a ton (especially not starting).

Those could easily be our starters and bench players but to me that leaves the white team without enough shooting. It would make more sense to me if the actual lineup had the guards flipped on each team.

Starting Smart, Bradley, Turner, Johnson and Olynyk gives us enough ball handling and shooting to get quality looks while the wing defense plus Johnson can cover up for Olynyk.

A second unit of Sully/Zeller, Lee, Crowder, Jerebko and Thomas would have enough spacing to get Isaiah going, while going big with the rest of the lineup improves the defense. Lee and IT will be a dominant pick and roll combo.

In the end what really matters is who ends the game. I expect Thomas, Smart, and Johnson to finish most games, with Bradley, Turner, Crowder, Sully and Lee taking turns filling out the lineup
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