Celtics That Need To Go

[jayk009]

We have tons of depth on our roster..I would say we are one of the deepest teams in the league.

However, our problem is that we have the most depth at positions that other teams don't need. Individually the players seem like they have value but in terms of fit for other teams, alot of our players will not fetch that much on the trade market no matter how valuable we think they are.

IMO we need to clear the log jam and we need to do something soon. Right now we're in a weird position where we're good for 40-45 wins and I don't like it..Either we need to be really good or really bad..we're stuck in a no mans land right now.

Some players that I feel like need to be gone:

1. Evan Turner. He has done a wonderful job for us and maybe even was our best player last year. However, he has no future on this team..and he is taking up valuable minutes that could be used to develop some of our younger guys. We need to trade him for a pick or just give him away for free. Maybe not a popular opinion but he needs to go.

2. Avery Bradley. He seems like a nice solid player and he plays excellent defense and theoretically should be an excellent SG for us. However..IMO he will never be an elite 3 point shooter, and his height makes him have trouble with alot of taller players. He is a nice player don't get me wrong..but he is almost like a Tony Allen...can be very useful in a specific situation but with our team make up and roster I really think that Bradley is expandable. Also, I really think that RJ Hunter is our shooting guard of the future and will be the starting guard when we win our next championship.

3. Kelly Olynyk. He is an interesting player and one that can be very good offensively. However IMO he will never be an elite rebounder or defender and therefore can not be a starter on  a winning team. Even with the NBA valuing bigs that can shoot, I see him as a nice bench option and nothing more. He is immensely talented but he will always be a flawed player..and it's something that will keep him as a solid bench player but never a above average starter. He's still young so we keep thinking he will do more...but he'll get older and he will stay the same and we will eventually realize that he's just a solid bench player and nothing more..just like a Spencer Hawes...

Keeper: Jared Sullinger

Now, everyone seems to be low on him and it is completely understandable. But I think we need to keep Sullinger. He is IMO a Kevin Love type player and can be a very very good compliment if we ever get the elite big we're looking for. Now I don't like how he became a 3 point chucker, I wish Brad Stevens would tell him to stop shooting 3's(even though I know Stevens is the on encouraging it). This will sound weird but..IMO he is the most likely player on our roster to become an all-star. Maybe I am a terrible talent evaluator, but I see Sullinger as someone that the game just comes to easy to..and right now his work ethic doesn't match his talent..but as soon as he puts the work in and if he's able to stay healthy I really think he will be a all-star power forward. The things that he does well, are things that are not things that can be taught and not alot of other big men can do. I feel like he should be able to be a Zach Randolph/ Kevin Love hybrid type player at his best.

[Bdiddy]

I agree on Turner and Bradley but Olynyk is a keeper. What is wrong with a scoring 7 footer coming off the bench? Not everyone can be a "star". The C's will need quality role players willing to play on moderate contracts.

[Celtics4ever]

I think the NBA is an athlete's game and at some point this means we have to ditch our guys who are not athletic.    Elite NBA players are usually athletic.  I agree ET has to go at some point.  But I think we get some athletes who can play we won't miss Sully and KO.   The trouble is finding those guys and these guys to me are the Delonte West and his ilk who were holding down the fort until Ainge can get better. 

I would not mind seeing Sully and KO go for this reason.    Sully 's only top 20 stat is in rebounds the rest of his game he is in 30s in terms of stuff like FG and the like.   He is productive but hardly elite in any area.  Both of these guys have high getting swatted potential although Sully can use his body well and both are high IQ nifty players.   They both have trouble on D.  Ainge really gambled on both of these guys and they have unique skillsets,  both are NBA quality players but both have limitations that really damper their star prospects.  Now that being said, they can be rotation players.  At present their talents do not over come their deficits but we have all seen games when they do, but not routinely.

but I see Sullinger as someone that the game just comes to easy to..and right now his work ethic doesn't match his talent..but as soon as he puts the work in and if he's able to stay healthy I really think he will be a all-star power forward. The things that he does well, are things that are not things that can be taught and not alot of other big men can do. I feel like he should be able to be a Zach Randolph/ Kevin Love hybrid type player at his best.

I think shot selection and he work ethic are his problems as well.    His work ethic is abysmal, he has only tried to get in shape on his contract year.  Last year, he did run the floor and was late to some team meetings and ate himself into a weight related injury.  He takes ill advised shots, that he is not that good at.   You want to improve at threes, pull a Bird or Ray Allen and shoot a couple of hundred before the game.   I know some people say we want to develop him and that the Celtics give him a pass but that is utter BS!   No coach wants players to develop their moves in a game, they want them to execute moves and stuff they have practiced in a game. 

He lacks discipline, plays hero ball.  This guy thinks he is the man.   Even when he was at near 300 lbs and a beefcake.  He did not feel he had to show up, on time to the meetings.   He did not feel he had to keep his body at a healthy weight.   He did not feel he had to get in condition to play.  That is a big problem, I hope this offseason, he got a slice of humble pie and changed as a human being.   But I heard more talk of blaming his body than manning up and admitting he made a mistake.   Now he does in a contract year, simply put I do not trust him.   Any contract we tender MUST have a weight clause or body fat clause.

As for the game coming easy to him, it might have up to the NCAA level.   But one thing most of you don't understand because I wager most here never played basketball at varsity, collegiate or pro level is that every level you go up , more of your talents are shared by your peers.   In HS, your tall and a decent athlete, guess what at college everyone is, at the pro level it is even worse as you have the most elite players.   What you do well, at one level does not always translate well at the next.   21 GMs passed on him for a reason and it was just not a bad back.

[pearljammer10]

I definitely agree with one and two but I swap Sullinger with KO. KO brings more all around talent to the table which makes him more versatile and more dangerous. Sully is great on the block and is a great rebounder but he doesn't do much else above the average range. Plus, his chucker status has gotten way too over the top.

Turner, Bradley, and Sully all have the same weaknesses in common that make them all painful for me to watch. They all have low basketball IQ, whether it be shot selection, making weak passes...They just don't play smart basketball and make too many unforced mistakes. The all play so.....dang.....slow. Turner will spend 20 seconds of the shot clock, 5 thinking about his move, 5 dribbling until he gets to the move, 5 to finally make the move, and 5 more to set up his shot. Its beyond painful. Bradley is a great defender but he makes the ball stick way too much. Swing it kid, get the glue off your hands. Sully has become a Big Baby-esque black hole. If he gets the ball anywhere in the post, its not being passed back out regardless of what he ends up doing with the ball. They're all extremely frustrating to watch.

[PhoSita]

The trouble is finding those guys and these guys to me are the Delonte West and his ilk who were holding down the fort until Ainge can get better. 

Good point.  I would agree that this is a team of Ricky Davis / Delonte West / Raef Lafrentz / Kendrick Perkins / Gerald Green / Ryan Gomes / Wally Szczerbiak types.

If only we had a Paul Pierce.  Maybe Smart can be a Big Al caliber player, at least.

[jayk009]

I really love Sully's rebounding instincts...it's something that can't really be taught and it's a huge skill that seperates him from KO..Yes KO has a much more diverse skillset offensively but as a pure scorer I still think Sully still has the edge. I like to compare Sully to kind of a zach randolph...alot of things he does is not pretty but he somehow just gets it in and gobbles up rebounds despite having a 2 inch vertical..its just a feel for the game that others don't have..imo sully has that same kind of feel..His shot selection has gotten pretty bad the last 2 years...that's something I hope he does clean up...I wish he would forget about 3's altogether..or shoot maybe 1 a game.

[More Banners]

These descriptions of Sully remind me of exactly my gripes about Toine's game. Difference might be that Sully actually practices skills (shooting aside, apparently).

At his age, though, it's just too early to let him go without trying to bring some discipline to his game. He might have the best odds of our young guys of making an allstar team if he becomes a persistent double-double guy.

For me, those that need new teams are IT and Bradley.
Bradley has simply been replaced by Smart, who has a much, much higher ceiling. And I cringe when he tries to handle he ball and make a pass. Nothing great there.
IT just is not going to play major minutes in a playoff situation. Defense not good enough, all that passing after leaping in the air to pass out of traffic...no way that flies in a series. Incredible talent and athleticism, but fool's gold, IMO.

Don't understand the lack of love for Turner and KO.  Turner was just overused last year, and I think would be better at SG, and would be very effective against 2nd units especially.

KO like to be, at least, a really good 3rd big.

So my package would start with Bradley and IT, who are both good young veteran players with critical skills, even if IT just eats minutes in the regular season, he gives rebuilding teams' fans something to watch. Bradley is legit on defense, which might help make games appear a little competitive. 
These guys should hopefully headline a trade this season.


Like the former Nate Rob Show, when HE got hot and scored in bunches for his teams.

[Celtics4ever]

These descriptions of Sully remind me of exactly my gripes about Toine's game. Difference might be that Sully actually practices skills (shooting aside, apparently).

I for one, thought AW was our best player for a time but he was inefficient.  I hope his conditioning pays off as I want us to win. CBS did not get the tanking memo, so we want guys who will play.

[Hemingway]

We have tons of depth on our roster..I would say we are one of the deepest teams in the league.

However, our problem is that we have the most depth at positions that other teams don't need. Individually the players seem like they have value but in terms of fit for other teams, alot of our players will not fetch that much on the trade market no matter how valuable we think they are.

IMO we need to clear the log jam and we need to do something soon. Right now we're in a weird position where we're good for 40-45 wins and I don't like it..Either we need to be really good or really bad..we're stuck in a no mans land right now.

Some players that I feel like need to be gone:

1. Evan Turner. He has done a wonderful job for us and maybe even was our best player last year. However, he has no future on this team..and he is taking up valuable minutes that could be used to develop some of our younger guys. We need to trade him for a pick or just give him away for free. Maybe not a popular opinion but he needs to go.

2. Avery Bradley. He seems like a nice solid player and he plays excellent defense and theoretically should be an excellent SG for us. However..IMO he will never be an elite 3 point shooter, and his height makes him have trouble with alot of taller players. He is a nice player don't get me wrong..but he is almost like a Tony Allen...can be very useful in a specific situation but with our team make up and roster I really think that Bradley is expandable. Also, I really think that RJ Hunter is our shooting guard of the future and will be the starting guard when we win our next championship.

3. Kelly Olynyk. He is an interesting player and one that can be very good offensively. However IMO he will never be an elite rebounder or defender and therefore can not be a starter on  a winning team. Even with the NBA valuing bigs that can shoot, I see him as a nice bench option and nothing more. He is immensely talented but he will always be a flawed player..and it's something that will keep him as a solid bench player but never a above average starter. He's still young so we keep thinking he will do more...but he'll get older and he will stay the same and we will eventually realize that he's just a solid bench player and nothing more..just like a Spencer Hawes...

Keeper: Jared Sullinger

Now, everyone seems to be low on him and it is completely understandable. But I think we need to keep Sullinger. He is IMO a Kevin Love type player and can be a very very good compliment if we ever get the elite big we're looking for. Now I don't like how he became a 3 point chucker, I wish Brad Stevens would tell him to stop shooting 3's(even though I know Stevens is the on encouraging it). This will sound weird but..IMO he is the most likely player on our roster to become an all-star. Maybe I am a terrible talent evaluator, but I see Sullinger as someone that the game just comes to easy to..and right now his work ethic doesn't match his talent..but as soon as he puts the work in and if he's able to stay healthy I really think he will be a all-star power forward. The things that he does well, are things that are not things that can be taught and not alot of other big men can do. I feel like he should be able to be a Zach Randolph/ Kevin Love hybrid type player at his best.

You just hate everyone huh?

[slamtheking]

We have tons of depth on our roster..I would say we are one of the deepest teams in the league

completely agree

IMO we need to clear the log jam and we need to do something soon.

ok - same thing everyone else is saying

Some players that I feel like need to be gone:

thing is no one needs to be gone.  "Needs" suggests they're a locker room problem or unproductive on the court.  We don't have anyone that fits that description.   We definitely have a roster full of players that could be improved upon. 

[Hemingway]

No one on the team "needs to go" we will look to upgrade where we can but to say someone needs to go is harsh. Vin Baker needed to go. Chris Haren (is that his name, the drugy) needed to go. We have a really good thing going right now.

We are not yet at a point where having a "log jam" at a position or two is a problem. We will be a legit contender in 1-3 years I really do believe, but at least half the guys will be gone by then. There is no need to make sideways trades to even out the roster now. Ainge will just keep to the plan. aquire assets and improve the value of the ones we already have.

[PhoSita]

These descriptions of Sully remind me of exactly my gripes about Toine's game. Difference might be that Sully actually practices skills (shooting aside, apparently).

I for one, thought AW was our best player for a time but he was inefficient.  I hope his conditioning pays off as I want us to win. CBS did not get the tanking memo, so we want guys who will play.

Toine was way more talented and also less disciplined.

I think Sullinger's outside shooting is mostly at the behest of the coaching staff, though I think self-interest has played a role, as well, since Sully surely knows he'll make more money if he successfully pulls off a Kevin Love impression.

[Csfan1984]

Need upgrades and/or big player development. None of the players mentioned are at the point where they are maxed out potential wise.
1. Turner can improve his shooting and value by embracing a 3 and d type role where he spots up or slashes hard to begin a swing of the ball. He is young enough to still be developing a shot. Once his shot is better he won't need to drive or probe every time he touches ball. Last year he was playing to his strengths.

2. AB's shooting can improve by being less streaky and take more spot ups. He comes off curls and screens too often for my taste. BS needs to stop thinking he can be a Rip lite. Also with his speed he needs to go for quick dunks not weak hanging fruit layups.

3. KO for is contract is still a good value. No need for him to go. He is depth and the team's 5th best big. He may be more suited for Euro ball but he can still be a hustle off the bench big. He isn't going to bring big value in a trade. It's better to keep him.

4. Sully I don't like one bit but he can play and play very well despite his issues. He may have trade value and he may some day turn the corner and be a real pro. He doesn't hurt the team if played in 4 min spurts. He isn't ever going to be a big time starter. He is likely a blend of Anthony Mason and David West more than a ZBo/Love.

[Celtics4ever]

I think Sullinger's outside shooting is mostly at the behest of the coaching staff, though I think self-interest has played a role, as well, since Sully surely knows he'll make more money if he successfully pulls off a Kevin Love impression.

Of course, publically they will say for him to take the shot and they encouraged it.   Because if they do not it hurts his trade value.  "we want him to develop his shot"  vs. "we have a knucklehead who does not play to his strengths".

[Csfan1984]

I think Sullinger's outside shooting is mostly at the behest of the coaching staff, though I think self-interest has played a role, as well, since Sully surely knows he'll make more money if he successfully pulls off a Kevin Love impression.

Of course, publically they will say for him to take the shot and they encouraged it.   Because if they do not it hurts his trade value.  "we want him to develop his shot"  vs. "we have a knucklehead who does not play to his strengths".

What is it about JS guys being Knuckleheads?
Josh Smith and Jared Sullinger