Bob Cousy says he'd rather tank/draft than get stuck in the middle of the pack.

[chambers]

Just turned 87 years old. Still sharp as ever....
Couz may have a point? hehe


http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/08/08/bob-cousy-boston-timeless-treasure/bGAri28zRmJ7l7wBtihiqO/story.html

Cousy professed “great confidence” in Celtics president of basketball operations Danny Ainge and his blueprint for banner No. 18.

But he also offered a pragmatic view of the Celtics’ road back to contention, after a surprising playoff berth last season.

“They’re ending up in the middle, which frankly is the worst place you can be, in my judgment,” Cousy said. “You either get up near the top and enjoy the goodies or you finish last and get the first, second, third pick, and then you’ve got a shot at helping yourself through the draft. When you’re in the middle you’re just not going to get impact players.”

Preach on, Cooz. If the Parishioners of the Parquet aren’t going to listen to bloviating sportswriters (raising hand), maybe they’ll listen to one of their most revered figures.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Just turned 87 years old. Still sharp as ever....
Couz may have a point? hehe


http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/08/08/bob-cousy-boston-timeless-treasure/bGAri28zRmJ7l7wBtihiqO/story.html

Cousy professed “great confidence” in Celtics president of basketball operations Danny Ainge and his blueprint for banner No. 18.

But he also offered a pragmatic view of the Celtics’ road back to contention, after a surprising playoff berth last season.

“They’re ending up in the middle, which frankly is the worst place you can be, in my judgment,” Cousy said. “You either get up near the top and enjoy the goodies or you finish last and get the first, second, third pick, and then you’ve got a shot at helping yourself through the draft. When you’re in the middle you’re just not going to get impact players.”

Preach on, Cooz. If the Parishioners of the Parquet aren’t going to listen to bloviating sportswriters (raising hand), maybe they’ll listen to one of their most revered figures.

Nowhere in there it says that he'd rather tank...

[D.o.s.]

Just turned 87 years old. Still sharp as ever....
Couz may have a point? hehe


http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/08/08/bob-cousy-boston-timeless-treasure/bGAri28zRmJ7l7wBtihiqO/story.html

Cousy professed “great confidence” in Celtics president of basketball operations Danny Ainge and his blueprint for banner No. 18.

But he also offered a pragmatic view of the Celtics’ road back to contention, after a surprising playoff berth last season.

“They’re ending up in the middle, which frankly is the worst place you can be, in my judgment,” Cousy said. “You either get up near the top and enjoy the goodies or you finish last and get the first, second, third pick, and then you’ve got a shot at helping yourself through the draft. When you’re in the middle you’re just not going to get impact players.”

Preach on, Cooz. If the Parishioners of the Parquet aren’t going to listen to bloviating sportswriters (raising hand), maybe they’ll listen to one of their most revered figures.

Nowhere in there it says that he'd rather tank...

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

I know people love to say/see these statements but it doesn't make it any more sensible when a great player says it. It is EXTREMELY rare for a team to skip the middle and then win the chip, it just doesn't jive with reality no matter who says it! You don't go from the bottom to a title except for maybe a couple teams in history!

[PhoSita]

Good for him.   Not a popular opinion in new England,  but you can't argue with the man's credentials

[Eja117]

When have the Celts ever gotten a good pick? When have they ever gone into a lottery and came out with "phew. That is exactly why we did this"?  or even "thank gosh we didn't go down"?  Joe Johnson? When they were supposed to be 8th and got 8th?

The lottery never helps the Celtics. They have never gone into it and come away with any kind of advantage over other teams. They have never won, or even moved up, in the lottery. They have only lost the lottery.

Plus this team was far too good, even early on, for a top 6 pick. This team was looking at maybe 9th at best. Frank Kaminsky. Whoop de doo.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Good for him.   Not a popular opinion in new England,  but you can't argue with the man's credentials

The problem is not with what he's saying, but what is being extrapolated from it.

Ending up in the middle is indeed the worst place to be, even Ainge himself has said it constantly.

But going from what he said, to extrapolating that "stuck in the middle" is what we seemingly aspire to be doing and from there extrapolate that Cousy actually wants to tank is highly inaccurate.

Finishing among the worst, and seeing its value from a franchise building standpoint, is not a call to tank.

But also, it ignores all the picks we have acquired from other teams... but no need to go into that.

Hey, if we're going to be stuck in the middle, sure let's go ahead and tank... let's just make sure we don't get stuck in the bottom either, you know?

[hwangjini_1]

When have the Celts ever gotten a good pick? When have they ever gone into a lottery and came out with "phew. That is exactly why we did this"?  or even "thank gosh we didn't go down"?  Joe Johnson? When they were supposed to be 8th and got 8th?

The lottery never helps the Celtics. They have never gone into it and come away with any kind of advantage over other teams. They have never won, or even moved up, in the lottery. They have only lost the lottery.

Plus this team was far too good, even early on, for a top 6 pick. This team was looking at maybe 9th at best. Frank Kaminsky. Whoop de doo.

assuming the above is a real question and not simply a snarky over generalizaiton, by good pick, do you mean "top 6"? (since bird was taken at #6, it is reasonable to extend "good pick" this far out.)

if so, then a 5 minute search on the web would have shown you this:

2014 - 6th pick
2007 - 5th pick
1997 - 3rd pick & 6th pick
1996 - 6th pick
1986 - 2nd pick
1980 - 1st pick, traded down to 3rd pick
1978 - 6th pick

[Eja117]

When have the Celts ever gotten a good pick? When have they ever gone into a lottery and came out with "phew. That is exactly why we did this"?  or even "thank gosh we didn't go down"?  Joe Johnson? When they were supposed to be 8th and got 8th?

The lottery never helps the Celtics. They have never gone into it and come away with any kind of advantage over other teams. They have never won, or even moved up, in the lottery. They have only lost the lottery.

Plus this team was far too good, even early on, for a top 6 pick. This team was looking at maybe 9th at best. Frank Kaminsky. Whoop de doo.

assuming the above is a real question and not simply a snarky over generalizaiton, by good pick, do you mean "top 6"? (since bird was taken at #6, it is reasonable to extend "good pick" this far out.)

if so, then a 5 minute search on the web would have shown you this:

2014 - 6th pick
2007 - 5th pick
1997 - 3rd pick & 6th pick
1996 - 6th pick
1986 - 2nd pick
1980 - 1st pick, traded down to 3rd pick
1978 - 6th pick

Yeah. Once you get past the 80s you get Toine. Wow. They really won that lottery.
Then they didn't even get a top 2 pick in the Duncan draft, then didn't even get a top 4 pick in the Oden draft, then moved down a spot in the Marcus Smart draft. Lost the lottery every single time. Never got a difference maker (unless you think Smart will be, which I think he probably will be, although probably not like Wiggins and Jabari P).  The lottery is not a good place for the Celtics. Nothing good ever happens there. Only disastrously or mildly bad things.

[truthhurts34]

I mean, we did get a top pick though.

Smart is better than Exum and Gordon who went 4th. Embiids career is done with, and that class was one of the deepest in years. Superficially going 6th is meaningless really.

Unless you want to perennially tank and not correctly develope your high picks through a losing atmosphere which would take 7 plus years....They could easily bail when their contract is up.

Numerically we shouldve gotten Durant in 07. Knicks shouldve gotten 2, and philly shouldve gotten a higher pick than embiid who they are stuck with now as well as other high picks that all play the same position.

Shouldve, would've, could've. No thanks. Tanking does not guarantee anything, it's not as simple as it seems.

We got our high pick while still having young good talent on our team, not with a bunch of d league scrubs which most tanking teams are filled with. Not to mention our plethora of assets.

Be happy with our situation.

[Eja117]

Did we get Paul Pierce at the middle of the pack? We definitely didn't get him tanking.

[SHAQATTACK]

Meh....

He is old and lost his mind

[LarBrd33]

When have the Celts ever gotten a good pick? When have they ever gone into a lottery and came out with "phew. That is exactly why we did this"?  or even "thank gosh we didn't go down"?  Joe Johnson? When they were supposed to be 8th and got 8th?

The lottery never helps the Celtics. They have never gone into it and come away with any kind of advantage over other teams. They have never won, or even moved up, in the lottery. They have only lost the lottery.

Plus this team was far too good, even early on, for a top 6 pick. This team was looking at maybe 9th at best. Frank Kaminsky. Whoop de doo.

assuming the above is a real question and not simply a snarky over generalizaiton, by good pick, do you mean "top 6"? (since bird was taken at #6, it is reasonable to extend "good pick" this far out.)

if so, then a 5 minute search on the web would have shown you this:

2014 - 6th pick
2007 - 5th pick
1997 - 3rd pick & 6th pick
1996 - 6th pick
1986 - 2nd pick
1980 - 1st pick, traded down to 3rd pick
1978 - 6th pick

Let's evaluate our success with what is considered "tanking" (a newfangled catch-all word for describing bottoming out).

1978 - 6th pick - Larry Bird.   Nice
1980 - 3rd pick - Kevin McHale.... nice
1986  2nd pick - Len Bias - ouch.  Unprecedented situation.  Could have been amazing.
1996 - 6th pick - 3x All-star Antoine Walker
1997 - Considered a 1 player draft with Duncan.  Maybe a 2 player draft as some folks like Van Horn.  We got Billups #3 (5x All-star and Finals MVP).  #6 - Ron Mercer... not great, but he averaged 17 points, 4 rebounds, 2.5 assists and 1.6 steals with 43% shooting and 79% from the line his second year in Boston.  I'd gladly take that from any of our rookies.  Mercer peaked in Chicago by averaging 20 points, 4 rebounds, 3.3 assists and 1.3 steals.  Again... I'd take it.  Marcus Smart just averaged 7.8 points, 3.3 rebounds, 3.1 assists and 1.5 steals and people talk about him like the second coming of Christ.  Not a bad haul all things considered.
2007 - #5 pick - We flipped it for Ray Allen, which opened the door to bringing in KG... and directly lead to us winning a championship.
2014 - #6 - Marcus Smart.  Again, the jury is out on Smart, but he's very clearly our most valuable asset and many believe he's a future star.   Not bad.

Aside from Bias, I'd say "tanking" has worked fairly well for us. 

[max215]

Preach on, Cooz. If the Parishioners of the Parquet aren’t going to listen to bloviating sportswriters (raising hand), maybe they’ll listen to one of their most revered figures.

He's revered for what he did on the court, though. You can respect what someone, like Michael Jordan for example, did on the court while completely disagreeing with his opinions on management. Cousy is a Celtics legend, and always will be, but that doesn't make his opinion fact.

[GratefulCs]

When have the Celts ever gotten a good pick? When have they ever gone into a lottery and came out with "phew. That is exactly why we did this"?  or even "thank gosh we didn't go down"?  Joe Johnson? When they were supposed to be 8th and got 8th?

The lottery never helps the Celtics. They have never gone into it and come away with any kind of advantage over other teams. They have never won, or even moved up, in the lottery. They have only lost the lottery.

Plus this team was far too good, even early on, for a top 6 pick. This team was looking at maybe 9th at best. Frank Kaminsky. Whoop de doo.

assuming the above is a real question and not simply a snarky over generalizaiton, by good pick, do you mean "top 6"? (since bird was taken at #6, it is reasonable to extend "good pick" this far out.)

if so, then a 5 minute search on the web would have shown you this:

2014 - 6th pick
2007 - 5th pick
1997 - 3rd pick & 6th pick
1996 - 6th pick
1986 - 2nd pick
1980 - 1st pick, traded down to 3rd pick
1978 - 6th pick

Let's evaluate our success with what is considered "tanking" (a newfangled catch-all word for describing bottoming out).

1978 - 6th pick - Larry Bird.   Nice
1980 - 3rd pick - Kevin McHale.... nice
1986  2nd pick - Len Bias - ouch.  Unprecedented situation.  Could have been amazing.
1996 - 6th pick - 3x All-star Antoine Walker
1997 - Considered a 1 player draft with Duncan.  Maybe a 2 player draft as some folks like Van Horn.  We got Billups #3 (5x All-star and Finals MVP).  #6 - Ron Mercer... not great, but he averaged 17 points, 4 rebounds, 2.5 assists and 1.6 steals with 43% shooting and 79% from the line his second year in Boston.  I'd gladly take that from any of our rookies.  Mercer peaked in Chicago by averaging 20 points, 4 rebounds, 3.3 assists and 1.3 steals.  Again... I'd take it.  Marcus Smart just averaged 7.8 points, 3.3 rebounds, 3.1 assists and 1.5 steals and people talk about him like the second coming of Christ.  Not a bad haul all things considered.
2007 - #5 pick - We flipped it for Ray Allen, which opened the door to bringing in KG... and directly lead to us winning a championship.
2014 - #6 - Marcus Smart.  Again, the jury is out on Smart, but he's very clearly our most valuable asset and many believe he's a future star.   Not bad.

Aside from Bias, I'd say "tanking" has worked fairly well for us.

ya, and the Bias situation probably would have worked out great if not for the nose candy