Nets Pick?

[max215]

The nets squeak into the playoffs next year.

Any reasoning behind this?

Yes.  First, the East is terrible.  Second, some have suggested that removing Darren Williams could be a plus.  Third, they were a playoff team last year.  Fourth, they will go all out to win since they do not have their draft pick (from the coached to the players).  They DO NOT want to hand the Celts a lottery.  And finally, don't like to get my hopes up because we all know luck has never been on our side when it comes to the draft.  With our luck, they will all stay healthy and overachieve.

And did I mention the East is terrible?

I agree with Droop.   They look capable of winning at least 35 games.  I actually see them being on a par with the Celtics.  Both teams should win between 35-45.

They finished 13-6.  They are as likely as the Celtics to finish with less than 30 wins.

You realize they lost alan anderson, Deron Williams, Teletovic, and Plumlee who were 4 rotation players for them?

C'mon...

Teletovic - didn't play during the second half of the season
Plumlee - Was down to 13 minutes over the final month and 8 minutes in the playoffs
Anderson - I mean... ok?

Losing Deron might hurt a bit?  Jarrett Jack is a serviceable PG.  Joe Johnson still has game.  Brook Lopez was sensational over the final couple months (20/10/2),  Thad Young provided a major upgrade over Garnett... adding Bargnani might help a bit...

People expecting that team to finish bottom 6 must expect injuries.   That's likely a fringe playoff team in the East.

I see your baseless claim and I raise you one fact backed by evidence: the Nets were TERRIBLE without Williams. From January 5th through January 30th, Williams played in just one game, totalling 4 minutes played. The Nets finished this stretch with a record of 2-11. It's not really debatable, the Nets are significantly worse without Williams.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willide01/gamelog/2015/

Although I would like to agree with you since I think the Nets will be bad and I'm on your side of the argument...

The Nets happened to lose 8 of those 11 games to teams that made the playoffs/finished the season with a better record. In other words their opponent mattered.

Hey, that's fair and factually based criticism, which I absolutely welcome, TP. The way I see it, that helps to explain their slide a little bit, but obviously Williams was a big loss. FWIW, the Nets won the two games following Williams' return, both against playoff teams. One of these games was against a Clippers team which obliterated them by 39 points while Deron was out.

[oldtype]

It doesn't really matter whether Jack is better than Williams or vice versa. The Nets are much weaker simply because they used to have two NBA-caliber point guards, and are now down to one. Depth matters.

[oldtype]

Also, screw this whole debate. None of it matters because the Nets Ping-Pong balls will win us the lottery, regardless of where they are positioned.

[celticsclay]

The nets squeak into the playoffs next year.

Any reasoning behind this?

Yes.  First, the East is terrible.  Second, some have suggested that removing Darren Williams could be a plus.  Third, they were a playoff team last year.  Fourth, they will go all out to win since they do not have their draft pick (from the coached to the players).  They DO NOT want to hand the Celts a lottery.  And finally, don't like to get my hopes up because we all know luck has never been on our side when it comes to the draft.  With our luck, they will all stay healthy and overachieve.

And did I mention the East is terrible?

I agree with Droop.   They look capable of winning at least 35 games.  I actually see them being on a par with the Celtics.  Both teams should win between 35-45.

They finished 13-6.  They are as likely as the Celtics to finish with less than 30 wins.

You realize they lost alan anderson, Deron Williams, Teletovic, and Plumlee who were 4 rotation players for them?

C'mon...

Teletovic - didn't play during the second half of the season
Plumlee - Was down to 13 minutes over the final month and 8 minutes in the playoffs
Anderson - I mean... ok?

Losing Deron might hurt a bit?  Jarrett Jack is a serviceable PG.  Joe Johnson still has game.  Brook Lopez was sensational over the final couple months (20/10/2),  Thad Young provided a major upgrade over Garnett... adding Bargnani might help a bit...

People expecting that team to finish bottom 6 must expect injuries.   That's likely a fringe playoff team in the East.

Alan anderson is a proven veteran NBA player. On a team like the Celtics, losing him would be a non factor, but he is significantly better than the guys that will be playing in the 24 minutes he played last year.  This is a factor Like I said, he immediately signed up with an eastern conference playoff team for 4 million.

You can take a dig at Plumlee's playoff minute number, but that was very heavily match up based as the Hawks backup center Antic would drag him out of the paint where he is effective. They also resorted to hack a plumlee a few times in the series to get him out of the game. These are factors that don't happen as much over the course of a long NBA regular season. I think he is a proven backup NBA big. Replacing his minutes to Jerome Jordan is a downgrade any way you slice it. He averaged 8 points and 7 rebounds a season after making all-rookie. Losing him for nothing is a net downgrade. (Side note it is weird as hell for you to pine for Bennett and dismiss Plumlee)

Yes Teletovic was injured half the year, and he didn't shoot as good as the previous year, but he has some NBA skills. He signed for 5.5 million with a team trying to make the playoffs in the West (Suns)

You can poo all over their names, but the fact is they lost a bunch of capable NBA veterans that are now on other teams on non-minimum deals and are giving their minutes to guys like Larkin, Brown, Jordan etc that have never proven they can play in the NBA. This is downgrade no matter how you try to spin it.




 

[jpotter33]

The nets squeak into the playoffs next year.

Any reasoning behind this?

Yes.  First, the East is terrible.  Second, some have suggested that removing Darren Williams could be a plus.  Third, they were a playoff team last year.  Fourth, they will go all out to win since they do not have their draft pick (from the coached to the players).  They DO NOT want to hand the Celts a lottery.  And finally, don't like to get my hopes up because we all know luck has never been on our side when it comes to the draft.  With our luck, they will all stay healthy and overachieve.

And did I mention the East is terrible?

I agree with Droop.   They look capable of winning at least 35 games.  I actually see them being on a par with the Celtics.  Both teams should win between 35-45.

They finished 13-6.  They are as likely as the Celtics to finish with less than 30 wins.

You realize they lost alan anderson, Deron Williams, Teletovic, and Plumlee who were 4 rotation players for them?

C'mon...

Teletovic - didn't play during the second half of the season
Plumlee - Was down to 13 minutes over the final month and 8 minutes in the playoffs
Anderson - I mean... ok?

Losing Deron might hurt a bit?  Jarrett Jack is a serviceable PG.  Joe Johnson still has game.  Brook Lopez was sensational over the final couple months (20/10/2),  Thad Young provided a major upgrade over Garnett... adding Bargnani might help a bit...

People expecting that team to finish bottom 6 must expect injuries.   That's likely a fringe playoff team in the East.

So to recap LarBrd33 logic: Losing Teletovic, Plumlee, Anderson, + Deron while adding Bargnani, RHJ, and the bust/injured Robinson = still a playoff-caliber team in the East when a) they barely squeaked into the playoffs last year, and b) the teams they beat out last year (Miami, Indiana, Charlotte, New York, Orlando, Detroit) all significantly improved their roster through additions, health, or anticipated internal developments.

This is just another example of you constantly being over-optimistic about other teams and over-pessimistic about our own team, because, hey, Brooklyn is going to win 50 games this year, right? 

[celticsclay]

The nets squeak into the playoffs next year.

Any reasoning behind this?

Yes.  First, the East is terrible.  Second, some have suggested that removing Darren Williams could be a plus.  Third, they were a playoff team last year.  Fourth, they will go all out to win since they do not have their draft pick (from the coached to the players).  They DO NOT want to hand the Celts a lottery.  And finally, don't like to get my hopes up because we all know luck has never been on our side when it comes to the draft.  With our luck, they will all stay healthy and overachieve.

And did I mention the East is terrible?

I agree with Droop.   They look capable of winning at least 35 games.  I actually see them being on a par with the Celtics.  Both teams should win between 35-45.

They finished 13-6.  They are as likely as the Celtics to finish with less than 30 wins.

You realize they lost alan anderson, Deron Williams, Teletovic, and Plumlee who were 4 rotation players for them?

C'mon...

Teletovic - didn't play during the second half of the season
Plumlee - Was down to 13 minutes over the final month and 8 minutes in the playoffs
Anderson - I mean... ok?

Losing Deron might hurt a bit?  Jarrett Jack is a serviceable PG.  Joe Johnson still has game.  Brook Lopez was sensational over the final couple months (20/10/2),  Thad Young provided a major upgrade over Garnett... adding Bargnani might help a bit...

People expecting that team to finish bottom 6 must expect injuries.   That's likely a fringe playoff team in the East.

So to recap LarBrd33 logic: Losing Teletovic, Plumlee, Anderson, + Deron while adding Bargnani, RHJ, and the bust/injured Robinson = still a playoff-caliber team in the East when a) they barely squeaked into the playoffs last year, and b) the teams they beat out last year (Miami, Indiana, Charlotte, New York, Orlando, Detroit) all significantly improved their roster through additions, health, or anticipated internal developments.

This is just another example of you constantly being over-optimistic about other teams and over-pessimistic about our own team, because, hey, Brooklyn is going to win 50 games this year, right? 

it is up there on the pantheon of ridiculousness born out of pessimism

[tazzmaniac]

The nets squeak into the playoffs next year.

Any reasoning behind this?

Yes.  First, the East is terrible.  Second, some have suggested that removing Darren Williams could be a plus.  Third, they were a playoff team last year.  Fourth, they will go all out to win since they do not have their draft pick (from the coached to the players).  They DO NOT want to hand the Celts a lottery.  And finally, don't like to get my hopes up because we all know luck has never been on our side when it comes to the draft.  With our luck, they will all stay healthy and overachieve.

And did I mention the East is terrible?

I agree with Droop.   They look capable of winning at least 35 games.  I actually see them being on a par with the Celtics.  Both teams should win between 35-45.

They finished 13-6.  They are as likely as the Celtics to finish with less than 30 wins.

You realize they lost alan anderson, Deron Williams, Teletovic, and Plumlee who were 4 rotation players for them?

C'mon...

Teletovic - didn't play during the second half of the season
Plumlee - Was down to 13 minutes over the final month and 8 minutes in the playoffs
Anderson - I mean... ok?

Losing Deron might hurt a bit?  Jarrett Jack is a serviceable PG.  Joe Johnson still has game.  Brook Lopez was sensational over the final couple months (20/10/2),  Thad Young provided a major upgrade over Garnett... adding Bargnani might help a bit...

People expecting that team to finish bottom 6 must expect injuries.   That's likely a fringe playoff team in the East.

So to recap LarBrd33 logic: Losing Teletovic, Plumlee, Anderson, + Deron while adding Bargnani, RHJ, and the bust/injured Robinson = still a playoff-caliber team in the East when a) they barely squeaked into the playoffs last year, and b) the teams they beat out last year (Miami, Indiana, Charlotte, New York, Orlando, Detroit) all significantly improved their roster through additions, health, or anticipated internal developments.

This is just another example of you constantly being over-optimistic about other teams and over-pessimistic about our own team, because, hey, Brooklyn is going to win 50 games this year, right? 

Other than Miami, I don't think any of the teams listed significantly improved their roster.  Miami should be better but there are significant health concerns. 

[celticsclay]

The nets squeak into the playoffs next year.

Any reasoning behind this?

Yes.  First, the East is terrible.  Second, some have suggested that removing Darren Williams could be a plus.  Third, they were a playoff team last year.  Fourth, they will go all out to win since they do not have their draft pick (from the coached to the players).  They DO NOT want to hand the Celts a lottery.  And finally, don't like to get my hopes up because we all know luck has never been on our side when it comes to the draft.  With our luck, they will all stay healthy and overachieve.

And did I mention the East is terrible?

I agree with Droop.   They look capable of winning at least 35 games.  I actually see them being on a par with the Celtics.  Both teams should win between 35-45.

They finished 13-6.  They are as likely as the Celtics to finish with less than 30 wins.

You realize they lost alan anderson, Deron Williams, Teletovic, and Plumlee who were 4 rotation players for them?

C'mon...

Teletovic - didn't play during the second half of the season
Plumlee - Was down to 13 minutes over the final month and 8 minutes in the playoffs
Anderson - I mean... ok?

Losing Deron might hurt a bit?  Jarrett Jack is a serviceable PG.  Joe Johnson still has game.  Brook Lopez was sensational over the final couple months (20/10/2),  Thad Young provided a major upgrade over Garnett... adding Bargnani might help a bit...

People expecting that team to finish bottom 6 must expect injuries.   That's likely a fringe playoff team in the East.

So to recap LarBrd33 logic: Losing Teletovic, Plumlee, Anderson, + Deron while adding Bargnani, RHJ, and the bust/injured Robinson = still a playoff-caliber team in the East when a) they barely squeaked into the playoffs last year, and b) the teams they beat out last year (Miami, Indiana, Charlotte, New York, Orlando, Detroit) all significantly improved their roster through additions, health, or anticipated internal developments.

This is just another example of you constantly being over-optimistic about other teams and over-pessimistic about our own team, because, hey, Brooklyn is going to win 50 games this year, right? 

Other than Miami, I don't think any of the teams listed significantly improved their roster.  Miami should be better but there are significant health concerns.

wow in what crazy world is adding Robin Lopez, a healthy Carmelo Anthony and Aaron Afflalo not improving? They aren't superstars, but they were starting caliber players on an NBA playoff team and more then the Knicks had last year. 

[Beat LA]

The nets squeak into the playoffs next year.

Any reasoning behind this?

Yes.  First, the East is terrible.  Second, some have suggested that removing Darren Williams could be a plus.  Third, they were a playoff team last year.  Fourth, they will go all out to win since they do not have their draft pick (from the coached to the players).  They DO NOT want to hand the Celts a lottery.  And finally, don't like to get my hopes up because we all know luck has never been on our side when it comes to the draft.  With our luck, they will all stay healthy and overachieve.

And did I mention the East is terrible?

I agree with Droop.   They look capable of winning at least 35 games.  I actually see them being on a par with the Celtics.  Both teams should win between 35-45.

They finished 13-6.  They are as likely as the Celtics to finish with less than 30 wins.

You realize they lost alan anderson, Deron Williams, Teletovic, and Plumlee who were 4 rotation players for them?

C'mon...

Teletovic - didn't play during the second half of the season
Plumlee - Was down to 13 minutes over the final month and 8 minutes in the playoffs
Anderson - I mean... ok?

Losing Deron might hurt a bit?  Jarrett Jack is a serviceable PG.  Joe Johnson still has game.  Brook Lopez was sensational over the final couple months (20/10/2),  Thad Young provided a major upgrade over Garnett... adding Bargnani might help a bit...

People expecting that team to finish bottom 6 must expect injuries.   That's likely a fringe playoff team in the East.

Stop . Unless of course you meant that he might help our chances at a better pick, which could certainly happen, lol . Italy's KO is just horrendous on defense, obviously.

[celticsclay]

The nets squeak into the playoffs next year.

Any reasoning behind this?

Yes.  First, the East is terrible.  Second, some have suggested that removing Darren Williams could be a plus.  Third, they were a playoff team last year.  Fourth, they will go all out to win since they do not have their draft pick (from the coached to the players).  They DO NOT want to hand the Celts a lottery.  And finally, don't like to get my hopes up because we all know luck has never been on our side when it comes to the draft.  With our luck, they will all stay healthy and overachieve.

And did I mention the East is terrible?

I agree with Droop.   They look capable of winning at least 35 games.  I actually see them being on a par with the Celtics.  Both teams should win between 35-45.

They finished 13-6.  They are as likely as the Celtics to finish with less than 30 wins.

You realize they lost alan anderson, Deron Williams, Teletovic, and Plumlee who were 4 rotation players for them?

C'mon...

Teletovic - didn't play during the second half of the season
Plumlee - Was down to 13 minutes over the final month and 8 minutes in the playoffs
Anderson - I mean... ok?

Losing Deron might hurt a bit?  Jarrett Jack is a serviceable PG.  Joe Johnson still has game.  Brook Lopez was sensational over the final couple months (20/10/2),  Thad Young provided a major upgrade over Garnett... adding Bargnani might help a bit...

People expecting that team to finish bottom 6 must expect injuries.   That's likely a fringe playoff team in the East.

Stop . Unless of course you meant that he might help our chances at a better pick, which could certainly happen, lol . Italy's KO is just horrendous on defense.

 

[CelticsFanFromNYC]

Can someone please name me 5-7 teams (Excluding Philly) who you think are  worst then the Nets?? Because all I came up with was Philly, Portland, and "possibly" Minnesota.   

To me Magic and Pistons in my eyes is either similar or alot better. Only thing NEts got goin for them is so veteran experience. They got no Guards and bigs that cant defend. I will calll top 3 pick. Actuallly, I call pick #2

[oldtype]

Can someone please name me 5-7 teams (Excluding Philly) who you think are  worst then the Nets?? Because all I came up with was Philly, Portland, and "possibly" Minnesota.   

To me Magic and Pistons in my eyes is either similar or alot better. Only thing NEts got goin for them is so veteran experience. They got no Guards and bigs that cant defend. I will calll top 3 pick. Actuallly, I call pick #2

I don't think it'll be a top 3 pick because we've gotten to the point where tanking is so prevalent that to get in the top 3 you have to be actively trying to lose. (ex. Philly every year, Knicks last year, Lakers last year)

I think it's significantly more likely than not it will be in the top 10 though. Like you said, there just aren't many teams that are worse than the Nets are.

[jpotter33]

The nets squeak into the playoffs next year.

Any reasoning behind this?

Yes.  First, the East is terrible.  Second, some have suggested that removing Darren Williams could be a plus.  Third, they were a playoff team last year.  Fourth, they will go all out to win since they do not have their draft pick (from the coached to the players).  They DO NOT want to hand the Celts a lottery.  And finally, don't like to get my hopes up because we all know luck has never been on our side when it comes to the draft.  With our luck, they will all stay healthy and overachieve.

And did I mention the East is terrible?

I agree with Droop.   They look capable of winning at least 35 games.  I actually see them being on a par with the Celtics.  Both teams should win between 35-45.

They finished 13-6.  They are as likely as the Celtics to finish with less than 30 wins.

You realize they lost alan anderson, Deron Williams, Teletovic, and Plumlee who were 4 rotation players for them?

C'mon...

Teletovic - didn't play during the second half of the season
Plumlee - Was down to 13 minutes over the final month and 8 minutes in the playoffs
Anderson - I mean... ok?

Losing Deron might hurt a bit?  Jarrett Jack is a serviceable PG.  Joe Johnson still has game.  Brook Lopez was sensational over the final couple months (20/10/2),  Thad Young provided a major upgrade over Garnett... adding Bargnani might help a bit...

People expecting that team to finish bottom 6 must expect injuries.   That's likely a fringe playoff team in the East.

So to recap LarBrd33 logic: Losing Teletovic, Plumlee, Anderson, + Deron while adding Bargnani, RHJ, and the bust/injured Robinson = still a playoff-caliber team in the East when a) they barely squeaked into the playoffs last year, and b) the teams they beat out last year (Miami, Indiana, Charlotte, New York, Orlando, Detroit) all significantly improved their roster through additions, health, or anticipated internal developments.

This is just another example of you constantly being over-optimistic about other teams and over-pessimistic about our own team, because, hey, Brooklyn is going to win 50 games this year, right? 

Other than Miami, I don't think any of the teams listed significantly improved their roster.  Miami should be better but there are significant health concerns.

Charlotte: lost Vonleh, Stephenson, and Henderson and got Batum, Kaminsky, Hawes, Lamb, and Lin. I'd say that's an upgrade since Henderson is the only one that really played significant minutes for them by the end of the year.

Indiana: Lost Hibbert, West, and Miles (I think) and got George back to health, Ellis, Turner, and Hill. Getting a healthy George back alone improves them dramatically, but with how old West was looking and crappy Hibbert was playing, the additions look to be even more of an improvement.

Miami: I agree that a lot will depend on health, but they're definitely much better just by getting Bosh back. Also, adding Stoudemire, Green, and Winslow to their bench is big, too.

New York: They were horrible last year, so adding Lopez, Afflalo, and getting Melo back healthy is definitely significant improvement.

Detroit: Lost Monroe (not sure about who else) but gained Jennings back from health, Johnson, Ilyasova, Morris, and Blake, Granger, and Baynes for their bench. That's definitely an upgrade given how poor of a fit Monroe was on that roster.

Orlando: Orlando is definitely the most questionable of the group, but they didn't really lose anything of value and they gained Mario. Also, you have to figure in that Vuc, Oladipo, Payton, Harris, and Gordon should all theoretically make internal improvements, so they're definitely going to be better than last year.

Sure, it can be argued that none of these are San Antonio-level roster improvements, but that's not the point. The point is it enough to catch up to Brooklyn in the standings. Thus, the following:

Indiana: 0 games behind (lost tiebreaker)
Miami: 1 game behind
Charlotte: 5 games behind
Detroit: 6 games behind
Orlando: 13 games behind
New York: 21 games behind

Between record improvements of these teams and a decrease in wins from Brooklyn, it's definitely not inconceivable to see them finishing behind each one of these teams. In my opinion, Orlando and Detroit are the only ones who would be questionable on if they could catch Brooklyn in the standings. I definitely predict Indiana, Miami, Charlotte, and New York to all finish with the same record or a better record than Brooklyn this year due to Brooklyn being worse and those teams being better.

[CelticsFanFromNYC]

Can someone please name me 5-7 teams (Excluding Philly) who you think are  worst then the Nets?? Because all I came up with was Philly, Portland, and "possibly" Minnesota.   

To me Magic and Pistons in my eyes is either similar or alot better. Only thing NEts got goin for them is so veteran experience. They got no Guards and bigs that cant defend. I will calll top 3 pick. Actuallly, I call pick #2

I don't think it'll be a top 3 pick because we've gotten to the point where tanking is so prevalent that to get in the top 3 you have to be actively trying to lose. (ex. Philly every year, Knicks last year, Lakers last year)

I think it's significantly more likely than not it will be in the top 10 though. Like you said, there just aren't many teams that are worse than the Nets are.

I agree with the tanking perspective but really feel this years different.  If Knicks bottom out again then Melo is deff gone and think Melo may be able to drag them into a 8-11 spot in the east. Also no way Kobe's bottoms out and his team is not that bad after their pickups (not  a playoff team either) Just seems like no team this year other then Portland and Philly have any desire to tank. IMO of course. Knowing how stuff doesn't go as statistically shown, you probably be right

[CelticsFanFromNYC]

Web page timed out. Sorry for repost