Author Topic: 'what we lack in talent is made up by our depth and youth'  (Read 17887 times)

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Re: 'what we lack in talent is made up by our depth and youth'
« Reply #75 on: July 20, 2015, 11:47:31 AM »

Offline GzUP617

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Horford is like a poor man's Duncan. We don't even have a poor man's Horford on the roster now.

Umm

Al Horford is a poor man's Tim Duncan just like Even Turner is a poor man's Scottie Pippen...

Honestly not sure where you got that comparison from but Horford and Duncan are very different players, and are on entirely other levels. 

Actually he's right, but he probably should of said Horford is a Poor old man Tim Duncan,  let's not act like Duncan is in his prime. 
 

A more accurate comparison to Horford would be David Lee, David West or...Jared Sullinger.

I don't see these comparison, David Lee is more of a finesse player, David West and Sullinger can be somewhat compared to each other but neither of them to Horford.


Re: 'what we lack in talent is made up by our depth and youth'
« Reply #76 on: July 20, 2015, 11:48:49 AM »

Offline markb

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I would say false. The NBA is a star-driven league. Youth, depth, and effort can win you games in the regular season but it can't in the playoffs when opposing teams play their stars more minutes and know they can't take nights off.

exactly...

Re: 'what we lack in talent is made up by our depth and youth'
« Reply #77 on: July 20, 2015, 12:17:58 PM »

Offline clover

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Quote
A more accurate comparison to Horford would be David Lee, David West or...Jared Sullinger. 

I agree with a lot of your post but I do not agree with Sullinger being like Horford for this reason although he has a similar skill-set.   Players are at their best when they play to their strengths.   Horford, embraces what he is and his limitations.   Sullinger has spent a lot of his time, trying and failing to broaden his shooting from down town.  Whether this is up to the Celtics brass or not is a matter of conjecture but the time to practice your shot is now, in the summer time and not during the season so much.   I would like CBS to put him more in the mid range where he can shoot and in the low post where he is effective.   But Horford has a mind-set where he embraces who is and plays to his strengths.   Sully does not always do that. 

Pros have a good deal of leeway where they shoot in the offense.   They may be positioned on the floor by it but they choose when to shoot and where unless it is a drawn play or the shot-clock necessitates they shoot.  Good player take shots they have a chance that they can make and ones that they shoot a high percentage at.   Horford does this really well. It is often called playing within your game.

I agree completely, but the question here is:
'what we lack in talent is made up by our depth and youth'

Key word there being 'talent'.

In terms of pure talent, skill and even basketball IQ...Sully is right up there with Horford.  Any disadvantages Sully has compared to Horford are a direct or indirect result of his questionable attitude and decision making - all cerebral.

If Sully ever gets his head where it's supposed to be, there's absolutely nothing stopping him from becoming every bit as good as (if not even better than) Horford.

They are however clutch and play as a team as well as anyone.

Also correct, but again we're talking about pure talent level here, as that was the subject of the thread to begin with.

My argument basically is that the main thing separating the 13/14 Spurs from the current day Celtics are:

a) Experience / vet savvy
b) Team chemistry (those guys have been together a LONG time)
c) Coaching

Boston will develop more of both as they develop together as a team, so their levels of experience and chemistry will only get better...especially under Brad Stevens and with the addition of a couple of nice extra veterans (Lee, Johnson). 

Also Boston has some clutch players of their own in Smart, Thomas.

To be fair, Horford is taller, in far better shape, and has a career .571 TS% to Sully's .504.

He also blocks shots at a higher rate. Sully has a slightly higher rebounds/100 possessions average, at 14.8 to 14.3, but Horford had a higher rebounding rate than Sully when he was Sully's age.


Re: 'what we lack in talent is made up by our depth and youth'
« Reply #78 on: July 20, 2015, 12:49:28 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
In terms of pure talent, skill and even basketball IQ...Sully is right up there with Horford.  Any disadvantages Sully has compared to Horford are a direct or indirect result of his questionable attitude and decision making - all cerebral.

If Sully ever gets his head where it's supposed to be, there's absolutely nothing stopping him from becoming every bit as good as (if not even better than) Horford.

I agree with most of this except that Horford is a better athlete.   It is not all mental.   Some of it is physical.   Sully has a similar height and body but Horford has a better athletic base. 

He has a 35.5" vertical.  His 3/4 court sprint time was 3.37 and his lane agility was 12.15. He benched 185 20 times.  Sullinger is shorter has slightly less vertical reach(1.5") but he is a worse athlete.   His max vertical was 31" and Horford's standing vertical was equal to Sully's max vertical.  Sully lane agility was 12.77 and tenths of seconds win races and we are talking about a sixth tenths of a second difference, or first steps to the rim.  His 3/4 sprint time was  3.81 a full half a second slower than Horford.   Sully also only benched 185 a measly 9 times but he is not even in the small ball park physically.

We don't see Sully do things like this, his game is much more earth bound.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIGHiWmeu1s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Go9gcIcU6oI

http://www.nbadraft.net/2007-predraft-camp-combine-analysis

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jared-Sullinger-5029/

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Al-Horford-415/

Sullinger got the  second worst 3.4 sprint in his draft Class

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?action=post;topic=79972.75;last_msg=1934384

He is not even remotely a good athlete whereas  Horford is above  most the position averages for PF testing for his position in terms of athletic ability

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?page=avepos&year=All

Jared is not.  That being said he still has talent.  He is a terrific rebounder and has great hands.

Re: 'what we lack in talent is made up by our depth and youth'
« Reply #79 on: July 20, 2015, 01:29:36 PM »

Offline ahonui06

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Horford is definitely a better athlete and overall better basketball player than Sullinger.

Re: 'what we lack in talent is made up by our depth and youth'
« Reply #80 on: July 20, 2015, 05:32:18 PM »

Offline GreenWarrior

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The Hawks are a bad example. They will never win a title as currently constructed and if they were in the West, they'd be a borderline playoff team at best.

I think this is going too far.  We forget how good Atlanta was at times last year because of how things ended for them.

I don't think it's outlandish to say Atlanta might be a borderline playoff team. the East sucks hard.