Robert Upshaw debut and contract

[BudweiserCeltic]

They didn't want to deal with his off-basketball issues at all, that's it. We can argue about what would make sense basketball-wise, but you have to understand their desire  to keep that negative cloud outside of the organization, for good or ill.

[LooseCannon]

Still don't know why they didn't pick Upshaw over Thorton

This I agree with.  Thornton was a bad pickup at 45. He is one small guard

we could of drafted Upshaw, Arturas Gudaitis, Normal Powell (who had a very good game 1 for the raptors).  Branden Dawson.  All better choices than Thornton

Wouldn't hurt anything by taking a chance on him..send him to D-League for a year to develop

Thornton might be willing to spend a year in the D-League without signing an NBA contract so he doesn't take up a spot on the 15-man roster as a draft-and-stash player.  I don't think Upshaw would accept that deal.

[oldtype]

Given that the 45th pick is basically worthless anyway I to wouldnt have minded taking a chance on Upshaw.

That said, it's hard to make a credible argument that we know better than every single GM in the NBA, many of whom had the opportunity to actually talk to the kid. One can only imagine that his issues are far worse than what any of us know of.

[Celtics4ever]

No one drafted him LA signed him as a free agent.

[GreenCoffeeBean]

The Lakers...makes sense. I mean, what could go wrong for him personally in a place like Los Angeles?

Too bad Josh Hamilton isn't in LA to mentor him.  He could use a sponsor. /sarcasm.

Seriously, LA is about the last city a drug addict should be playing in.

Eh, it could go either way really. At least the cost of living is high enough in a city like LA where maybe he can't blow all his money. It would be easier for him to get into drug trouble if he played in Milwaukee, Indiana, Cleveland or Charlotte in my opinion.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

I'm really upset. I'm seriously upset that I'd rather post here than leave for work.

Even if it's not for #16 (in which I stand firm that we should have picked him then), we had #28, #33 and #45 and we passed on this dude when WE NEEDED a rim protector. And now the stinking Lakers has him. Teams looked to the past without looking to the future. He's still fundamentally flawed and needs improvement on strength, but you can already see the potential. With work, he could turn into an excellent player, but no, we won't pick him because of his past, isn't it?

Now I'm really late for work. Might as well call in sick just so I can rant some more.

Picking guys like Upshaw at #16 is how bad teams stay bad for years and years and years.

Mike

I stand by my word that I think he still has the most upside of who's available at #16, so I don't thing it's a horrible decision to pick him there (because unlike everyone else, I'm optimistic that he'ok turn his life around).

But just foe the sake of argument, that you're right, we still didn't pick him at #33 and #45. Those are non guaranteed contracts, and Upshaw would fill a need and still has the most upside of who's available at that spot. Passing on him because of his past, in the 2nd round when he clearly has lots of potential is insane. Granted, everyone passed on him too, but not everyone has a need for a rim protector like us, but instead we took an undersized PF (who's looking decent so I'd give us that) and a PG who may not sniff the Parque.

I can't argue with anyone who thinks we should have picked Upshaw in the 2nd round, especially with #45.  To pass on Upshaw with his second 2nd round pick to take yet another PG means Ainge didn't like anything about Upshaw at all.  It'll be fair to criticize Ainge every GM if Upshaw turns out to even be a bench big in the NBA.  Probably need to wait a bit longer than one summer league game, though.

But you can't take a player with Upshaw's red flags at #16.

Mike

fixed it for you.

completely agree.  taking Upshaw at 16 would have been stupid and reckless behavior by any GM.   Every GM passed on this kid.  that speaks volumes.  anyone ignoring that isn't paying attention and will just grasp at any straw. 

for anyone so desperate for Upshaw, don't worry he'll be available again next year when the Lakers don't guarantee the second year of his deal

I'd take that bet.

I bet TP's that Robert Upshaw would have a better season than any of our picks this year.

[GreenCoffeeBean]

Looking at the stat lines for blocked shots and rebounds, if there were ever a team in dire need of a Center with attitude and drug problems it is most definitely the Celtics.

[Roy H.]

His most recent game:  0 points, 6 fouls, 1 block in 22+ minutes.

So, he's up to 2 points, 7 rebounds, 0 assists, 4 turnovers, 0 steals, 4 blocks, 12 fouls in 35+ minutes in summer league.  He sounds like he's a long way off.

[Roy H.]

The Lakers...makes sense. I mean, what could go wrong for him personally in a place like Los Angeles?

Too bad Josh Hamilton isn't in LA to mentor him.  He could use a sponsor. /sarcasm.

Seriously, LA is about the last city a drug addict should be playing in.

Eh, it could go either way really. At least the cost of living is high enough in a city like LA where maybe he can't blow all his money. It would be easier for him to get into drug trouble if he played in Milwaukee, Indiana, Cleveland or Charlotte in my opinion.

If he makes the team and has his rookie contract guaranteed, he'll still make $500k.  If he could afford drugs as a college kid in Fresno and Seattle, he'll be able to find them anywhere, unfortunately.

[Neurotic Guy]

Managing emotions and controlling impulses are SKILLS. They are learned skills.  Not everyone is equal with regard to the mastery of these skills.  People in every walk of life have variability in a variety of skillsets that may SEEM to have nothing to do with the skills entailed in the specific occupational task. But they do.

Assessing potential has to take into account non-ball factors.  Same goes for everything.  Let's say you have a salesperson in your organization with great sales skills (e.g., knowledge of the product;likeable/personable; engenders trust; knows how to close a deal),  but she has social anxiety that often throws her off her game.  Her sales are impacted by the anxiety. You have to take that into account when deterimining her value to the organization.  It's part of her package.   

30 GMs thought that the Upshaw package had low chance of success. Obviously, Danny thought Thornton, all things considered, had better upside.

[moiso]

I think teams sees him as another Larry Sanders. Good player waiting for that big contract to buy lifetime supply of weed.   

Good comparison but half of this blog is still in Love with Sanders.

Great post, Neurotic Guy.  You put it into words perfectly.  TP.

[moiso]

I'm really upset. I'm seriously upset that I'd rather post here than leave for work.

Even if it's not for #16 (in which I stand firm that we should have picked him then), we had #28, #33 and #45 and we passed on this dude when WE NEEDED a rim protector. And now the stinking Lakers has him. Teams looked to the past without looking to the future. He's still fundamentally flawed and needs improvement on strength, but you can already see the potential. With work, he could turn into an excellent player, but no, we won't pick him because of his past, isn't it?

Now I'm really late for work. Might as well call in sick just so I can rant some more.

Picking guys like Upshaw at #16 is how bad teams stay bad for years and years and years.

Mike

I stand by my word that I think he still has the most upside of who's available at #16, so I don't thing it's a horrible decision to pick him there (because unlike everyone else, I'm optimistic that he'ok turn his life around).

But just foe the sake of argument, that you're right, we still didn't pick him at #33 and #45. Those are non guaranteed contracts, and Upshaw would fill a need and still has the most upside of who's available at that spot. Passing on him because of his past, in the 2nd round when he clearly has lots of potential is insane. Granted, everyone passed on him too, but not everyone has a need for a rim protector like us, but instead we took an undersized PF (who's looking decent so I'd give us that) and a PG who may not sniff the Parque.

I can't argue with anyone who thinks we should have picked Upshaw in the 2nd round, especially with #45.  To pass on Upshaw with his second 2nd round pick to take yet another PG means Ainge didn't like anything about Upshaw at all.  It'll be fair to criticize Ainge every GM if Upshaw turns out to even be a bench big in the NBA.  Probably need to wait a bit longer than one summer league game, though.

But you can't take a player with Upshaw's red flags at #16.

Mike

fixed it for you.

completely agree.  taking Upshaw at 16 would have been stupid and reckless behavior by any GM.   Every GM passed on this kid.  that speaks volumes.  anyone ignoring that isn't paying attention and will just grasp at any straw. 

for anyone so desperate for Upshaw, don't worry he'll be available again next year when the Lakers don't guarantee the second year of his deal

I'd take that bet.

I bet TP's that Robert Upshaw would have a better season than any of our picks this year.

You'd be willing to take that great of a risk?  There is a lot at stake with a bet like that. 

[Who]

Upshaw's defensive fundamentals are terrible. He isn't going to help anyone his rookie year.

He is going to be a foul machine in the NBA. He needs to learn to stop defending with his hands and move his feet. He was able to bail himself out a lot in college with his superior size / length to make up for his bad positioning but that won't fly against NBA caliber athletes / talents. It's going to be one foul after another. Sloppy, lazy defending.

It'll be his 2nd or 3rd year before (if) he is of value to anyone.

[knuckleballer]

His most recent game:  0 points, 6 fouls, 1 block in 22+ minutes.

So, he's up to 2 points, 7 rebounds, 0 assists, 4 turnovers, 0 steals, 4 blocks, 12 fouls in 35+ minutes in summer league.  He sounds like he's a long way off.

Long way off? 

[apc]

people need to move from Upshaw, no question he has the talent, but DA and BS felt that with the young team we have the risk is not worth it. if we had a team of veterans it would be a different story.