Robert Upshaw debut and contract

[Yoki_IsTheName]

I'm really upset. I'm seriously upset that I'd rather post here than leave for work.

Even if it's not for #16 (in which I stand firm that we should have picked him then), we had #28, #33 and #45 and we passed on this dude when WE NEEDED a rim protector. And now the stinking Lakers has him. Teams looked to the past without looking to the future. He's still fundamentally flawed and needs improvement on strength, but you can already see the potential. With work, he could turn into an excellent player, but no, we won't pick him because of his past, isn't it?

Now I'm really late for work. Might as well call in sick just so I can rant some more.

Picking guys like Upshaw at #16 is how bad teams stay bad for years and years and years.

Mike

Well-said. TP.

Let's think about some examples:
2012: #16 Houston Royce White
2011: #18 Washington Chris Singleton
2010: #15 Bucks Larry Sanders
2008: #14 Warriors Anthony Randolph
2008: #18 Washington Javale McGee
2007: #17 Nets Sean Williams
2006: #9 Warriors Patrick O'Bryant
2005: #6 Blazers Martell Webster
2005: #12 Sonics Robert Swift

I remember there being character questions with each of these players, and you could argue that the investment that these teams put into developing these players set the franchise back 1-2 years.

Eh...?

Royce White has anxiety disorder and afraid to fly, that's different. Singleton was just not good enough. McGee is still active, and while not playing got paid. And he's mostly just not good enough, BBIQ wise. Webster is still active. Randolph stayed for a while and was just not good enough, O'Bryant was just nor good enough. Sean Williams was just not good enough.

Robert Swift, Larry Sanders and White seems to be the only one who got hindered by character issues. And Sanders actually was on a path to redemption until he decided to quit.

There's always risk, but when there's potential, you take the risk and try to make it work.

[tankcity!]

Somebody needs to put up that Brad Stevens quote about culture. Yes, he could be an all star, but he doesn't fit on the Celtics. Stevens didn't want him because he felt the kid had issues and would be bad for the locker room. Steven's values that more than talent.

[BringToughnessBack]

As far as culture goes, I agree, Brad Stevens has created a strong culture on our team. At the same time, the true test of our culture would be to assist someone who is in need of the right environment to turn their life around. I feel, we might have had the perfect support team for that and I am not a fan of never giving others another chance. No matter the circumstances, using our last 2nd round pick on him and surrounding him with the right people is a no brainer to me. Having a closed culture that does not allow the ability to help people who need it is perhaps not the best culture to be creating. I will be watching his career from this point on and hope he turns his life around, even if it is in Los Angeles.

[elcotte]

"There's always risk, but when there's potential, you take the risk and try to make it work."

No. You don't. Not when there's this many red flags and when you have a young team where you are trying to establish a winning and high character culture. Think about the message you're sending to the rest of your team by bringing him in.
No way, not at #16, #28, #33 or #45.

[MBunge]

I'm really upset. I'm seriously upset that I'd rather post here than leave for work.

Even if it's not for #16 (in which I stand firm that we should have picked him then), we had #28, #33 and #45 and we passed on this dude when WE NEEDED a rim protector. And now the stinking Lakers has him. Teams looked to the past without looking to the future. He's still fundamentally flawed and needs improvement on strength, but you can already see the potential. With work, he could turn into an excellent player, but no, we won't pick him because of his past, isn't it?

Now I'm really late for work. Might as well call in sick just so I can rant some more.

Picking guys like Upshaw at #16 is how bad teams stay bad for years and years and years.

Mike

I stand by my word that I think he still has the most upside of who's available at #16, so I don't thing it's a horrible decision to pick him there (because unlike everyone else, I'm optimistic that he'ok turn his life around).

But just foe the sake of argument, that you're right, we still didn't pick him at #33 and #45. Those are non guaranteed contracts, and Upshaw would fill a need and still has the most upside of who's available at that spot. Passing on him because of his past, in the 2nd round when he clearly has lots of potential is insane. Granted, everyone passed on him too, but not everyone has a need for a rim protector like us, but instead we took an undersized PF (who's looking decent so I'd give us that) and a PG who may not sniff the Parque.

I can't argue with anyone who thinks we should have picked Upshaw in the 2nd round, especially with #45.  To pass on Upshaw with his second 2nd round pick to take yet another PG means Ainge didn't like anything about Upshaw at all.  It'll be fair to criticize Ainge if Upshaw turns out to even be a bench big in the NBA.  Probably need to wait a bit longer than one summer league game, though.

But you can't take a player with Upshaw's red flags at #16.

Mike

[Snakehead]

"There's always risk, but when there's potential, you take the risk and try to make it work."

No. You don't. Not when there's this many red flags and when you have a young team where you are trying to establish a winning and high character culture.

I totally agree with you but many on the other side won't so you're talking to a wall there.   There is more to basketball and player development than they think.

[elcotte]

"There's always risk, but when there's potential, you take the risk and try to make it work."

No. You don't. Not when there's this many red flags and when you have a young team where you are trying to establish a winning and high character culture.

I totally agree with you but many on the other side won't so you're talking to a wall there.   There is more to basketball and player development than they think.

Yes, you're right.

[LooseCannon]

I'm really upset. I'm seriously upset that I'd rather post here than leave for work.

Even if it's not for #16 (in which I stand firm that we should have picked him then), we had #28, #33 and #45 and we passed on this dude when WE NEEDED a rim protector. And now the stinking Lakers has him. Teams looked to the past without looking to the future. He's still fundamentally flawed and needs improvement on strength, but you can already see the potential. With work, he could turn into an excellent player, but no, we won't pick him because of his past, isn't it?

Now I'm really late for work. Might as well call in sick just so I can rant some more.

Picking guys like Upshaw at #16 is how bad teams stay bad for years and years and years.

Mike

Well-said. TP.

Let's think about some examples:
2012: #16 Houston Royce White
2011: #18 Washington Chris Singleton
2010: #15 Bucks Larry Sanders
2008: #14 Warriors Anthony Randolph
2008: #18 Washington Javale McGee
2007: #17 Nets Sean Williams
2006: #9 Warriors Patrick O'Bryant
2005: #6 Blazers Martell Webster
2005: #12 Sonics Robert Swift

I remember there being character questions with each of these players, and you could argue that the investment that these teams put into developing these players set the franchise back 1-2 years.

Eh...?

Royce White has anxiety disorder and afraid to fly, that's different. Singleton was just not good enough. McGee is still active, and while not playing got paid. And he's mostly just not good enough, BBIQ wise. Webster is still active. Randolph stayed for a while and was just not good enough, O'Bryant was just nor good enough. Sean Williams was just not good enough.

Robert Swift, Larry Sanders and White seems to be the only one who got hindered by character issues. And Sanders actually was on a path to redemption until he decided to quit.

There's always risk, but when there's potential, you take the risk and try to make it work.

I think Patrick O'Bryant is actually a good comparison for Upshaw.  They have similar height/length.  Upshaw is probably less athletic.  They are reported to have similar work ethics.  Their skill sets are similar, as they were both good shot blockers and rebounders with raw offensive skills.  O'Bryant was a better shooter.  Upshaw seems to be more in the DeAndre Jordan/Andre Drummond tier when it comes to free throw shooting.

Patrick O'Bryant had enough talent to play in the NBA, but he didn't have the right mentality.  I'd be comfortable in saying Upshaw probably has a lower ceiling than O'Bryant did as a prospect and I am not convinced that Upshaw has a better chance of realizing his potential than O'Bryant did.

[LooseCannon]

I'm really upset. I'm seriously upset that I'd rather post here than leave for work.

Even if it's not for #16, we had #28, #33 and #45 and we passed on this dude when WE NEEDED a rim protector. And now the stinking Lakers has him. Teams looked to the past without looking to the future. He's still fundamentally flawed and needs improvement on strength, but you can already see the potential. With work, he could turn into an excellent player, but no, we can't pick him because of his past, isn't it?

Now I'm really late for work. Might as well call in sick just so I can rant some more.

Every team passed on him in the draft including the Lakers.  They still have only given him a partial guarantee on 1st year money to get him to training camp.

My point is we could have not passed on him, still draft him in the 2nd round but we drafted another guard at #45, who may not even make the roster.

And why can't we offer the same deal to him when we needed a rim protector?

I think Thornton was drafted because he wouldn't make the roster.  Ainge wanted someone who could go on the Colton Iverson plan.  The Celtics wouldn't take Upshaw because there was no chance he would agree to go to Europe or spend a year in the D-League without signing an NBA contract.

[OhioGreen]

Is there anyone on CB that wouldv'e objected to signing Upshaw as our 15th man?  Doubt it, and from what he showed in his first SL game yesterday I think we've made a huge mistake not taking a chance on him!  Nice turnaround J right in Towns face, and later a nice block inside and the blocking another follup shot on Towns after the first block!  Wow! Haven't seen that on the C's for years---probably since the Steamer!
On a side note the Lakers SL team with Russell, Clarkson, ABrown, Randle, and Upshaw looked very scary at times!  Their future, with that current group, looks way superior to our rebuilding!  Brown, Russell, and Upshaw in ONE draft is crazy!  Throw in Randle, who's essentially a rookie and that's quite a coup! Actually LNance Jr looked pretty good too, before he got hurt!

[Tr1boy]

Danny had Upshaw and Richaun Holmes and Mickey in the day before the draft

Danny passed up on Upshaw still.    I'm guessing though physically he was impressive,  he was lost on the court. 

CBS and Danny are not going to draft or trade for players with mediocre iq

[Birdman]

Still don't know why they didn't pick Upshaw over Thorton

[Tr1boy]

Still don't know why they didn't pick Upshaw over Thorton

This I agree with.  Thornton was a bad pickup at 45. He is one small guard

we could of drafted Upshaw, Arturas Gudaitis, Normal Powell (who had a very good game 1 for the raptors).  Branden Dawson.  All better choices than Thornton

[slamtheking]

I'm really upset. I'm seriously upset that I'd rather post here than leave for work.

Even if it's not for #16 (in which I stand firm that we should have picked him then), we had #28, #33 and #45 and we passed on this dude when WE NEEDED a rim protector. And now the stinking Lakers has him. Teams looked to the past without looking to the future. He's still fundamentally flawed and needs improvement on strength, but you can already see the potential. With work, he could turn into an excellent player, but no, we won't pick him because of his past, isn't it?

Now I'm really late for work. Might as well call in sick just so I can rant some more.

Picking guys like Upshaw at #16 is how bad teams stay bad for years and years and years.

Mike

I stand by my word that I think he still has the most upside of who's available at #16, so I don't thing it's a horrible decision to pick him there (because unlike everyone else, I'm optimistic that he'ok turn his life around).

But just foe the sake of argument, that you're right, we still didn't pick him at #33 and #45. Those are non guaranteed contracts, and Upshaw would fill a need and still has the most upside of who's available at that spot. Passing on him because of his past, in the 2nd round when he clearly has lots of potential is insane. Granted, everyone passed on him too, but not everyone has a need for a rim protector like us, but instead we took an undersized PF (who's looking decent so I'd give us that) and a PG who may not sniff the Parque.

I can't argue with anyone who thinks we should have picked Upshaw in the 2nd round, especially with #45.  To pass on Upshaw with his second 2nd round pick to take yet another PG means Ainge didn't like anything about Upshaw at all.  It'll be fair to criticize Ainge every GM if Upshaw turns out to even be a bench big in the NBA.  Probably need to wait a bit longer than one summer league game, though.

But you can't take a player with Upshaw's red flags at #16.

Mike

fixed it for you.

completely agree.  taking Upshaw at 16 would have been stupid and reckless behavior by any GM.   Every GM passed on this kid.  that speaks volumes.  anyone ignoring that isn't paying attention and will just grasp at any straw. 

for anyone so desperate for Upshaw, don't worry he'll be available again next year when the Lakers don't guarantee the second year of his deal

[Birdman]

Still don't know why they didn't pick Upshaw over Thorton

This I agree with.  Thornton was a bad pickup at 45. He is one small guard

we could of drafted Upshaw, Arturas Gudaitis, Normal Powell (who had a very good game 1 for the raptors).  Branden Dawson.  All better choices than Thornton

Wouldn't hurt anything by taking a chance on him..send him to D-League for a year to develop