The Golden Gate Moves to Boston

[D.o.s.]

Different team, different situation and different efficiency.
Looking at his defensive stats throughout his career, he suddenly had his best defensive stats (DBPM) at 2.0
He always tried to improve on defense according GS articles but the main reason I believe is that GS was suddenly a better team defensively thanks to Kerr this season. Lee benefit from that and I find it even more impressive knowing he got this stats off the bench (weaker defense).
As for Boston, knowing our back-court studs on defense and guys like Crowder and Johnson, I think Lee's defense won't damage the team much.
On the other hand, offensively, he will bring something huge. Not only he's a serious threat in the paint, but it will attract attention to him and make other players open.
Last season we were mostly a perimeter or deep 2 scoring team at the exception of IT of course. I bet that will change a lot next season if our roster remain the same as of today.
Ideally we make a trade for a nice 3pts shooter and that would be "ideal" for us fans.

Ideal is at least 55 wins and a legitimate shot to make the Finals for me. Whatever gets us to that initial benchmark the fastest.

I remain doubtful that David Lee is the player who will make that difference.

[JHTruth]

Personally, i'm praying to all that is holy that we don't resume the starting 1-2-3 trio of Bradley-Smart-Turner again.   That threesome was gawd-awful bad (especially on offense) last season and I don't see any reason to expect it to be much better.

Agreed.  I think we agreed on this elsewhere.

I'd like to see IT - Smart in the backcourt.  Lee and Amir in the frontcourt is our best pairing.

On the wing, I hope the team acquires a longer guy who either drives and gets to the line a lot, or somebody who is a good shooter.  Either way, somebody who can run the pick and roll at least a little.

High cost option -- Derozan

Low cost option -- W. Chandler

Either one of those would work well in that lineup, I think.


I've heard before that Amir is taller than he's listed.  That's cool. 

Still a little skeptical about his ability to totally anchor the defense, especially with a guy like Lee next to him.  Amir's not the shotblocker he once was, and he's not known as having a lot of heft in the paint.  More of a lanky / weakside guy.  Plus, the ankle issues he's had call into question whether he can do a great job defending against pick and rolls.

We'll just have to see how Amir's ankles hold up. If they do, he's a bargain as a very solid big man who can give you 10-7 with great hustle and defense. Amir was very popular in Toronto for his hustle and heart so we don't have to worry about him bumming it out there. I'd like to see us move Sully for a real scorer at the 3..

[LGC88]

Different team, different situation and different efficiency.
Looking at his defensive stats throughout his career, he suddenly had his best defensive stats (DBPM) at 2.0
He always tried to improve on defense according GS articles but the main reason I believe is that GS was suddenly a better team defensively thanks to Kerr this season. Lee benefit from that and I find it even more impressive knowing he got this stats off the bench (weaker defense).
As for Boston, knowing our back-court studs on defense and guys like Crowder and Johnson, I think Lee's defense won't damage the team much.
On the other hand, offensively, he will bring something huge. Not only he's a serious threat in the paint, but it will attract attention to him and make other players open.
Last season we were mostly a perimeter or deep 2 scoring team at the exception of IT of course. I bet that will change a lot next season if our roster remain the same as of today.
Ideally we make a trade for a nice 3pts shooter and that would be "ideal" for us fans.

Ideal is at least 55 wins and a legitimate shot to make the Finals for me. Whatever gets us to that initial benchmark the fastest.

I remain doubtful that David Lee is the player who will make that difference.

That's why I write "ideal" that way. This is an ideal given what we have. We all know our ideal is basically nobody in the current team as our starting 5, at the exception of Smart maybe.

[spikelovetheCelts]

I feel like most of CB is pretty stoked on the David Lee acquisition, anyway.

Right.  We're now hearing, "David Lee is the best player on our team!"  As if that's a good thing.

Which is, I think, what provokes the energetic response which amounts more or less to:




What does it say if the "best player on our team" was a DNP - CD most of the season for the best team in the league?

He turn the Finals around with his offense. The player that beat him out played lights out this year. I think Lee will do great in the weak east. Plus he has a contract that can get us a star if need be.  I am all in on lee.

[LooseCannon]

Different team, different situation and different efficiency.
Looking at his defensive stats throughout his career, he suddenly had his best defensive stats (DBPM) at 2.0
He always tried to improve on defense according GS articles but the main reason I believe is that GS was suddenly a better team defensively thanks to Kerr this season. Lee benefit from that and I find it even more impressive knowing he got this stats off the bench (weaker defense).
As for Boston, knowing our back-court studs on defense and guys like Crowder and Johnson, I think Lee's defense won't damage the team much.
On the other hand, offensively, he will bring something huge. Not only he's a serious threat in the paint, but it will attract attention to him and make other players open.
Last season we were mostly a perimeter or deep 2 scoring team at the exception of IT of course. I bet that will change a lot next season if our roster remain the same as of today.
Ideally we make a trade for a nice 3pts shooter and that would be "ideal" for us fans.

Ideal is at least 55 wins and a legitimate shot to make the Finals for me. Whatever gets us to that initial benchmark the fastest.

I remain doubtful that David Lee is the player who will make that difference.

How would you feel if the goal is to get halfway there next season, then improve enough to get to 55 wins in 2016-2017?  Or to get a third of the way next season and get to 55 wins in 2017-2018?

[D.o.s.]

Not particularly thrilled with three lost seasons, even if it's a rational process. Particularly with the knowledge that every team has more or less the same plan if they're not overtly tanking. I'm sure Ranadive is being convinced of a similar timeline to the one you just proposed.

I don't think there's a fan that exists who doesn't want the team to get back to the Finals/title contention as soon as possible.

[GratefulCs]

Man this board can be depressing



I'm pulling for these guys, and i REALLY like our team


We may be going to hell in a bucket, but at least i'm enjoying the ride




And major props to the other optimists of the board

[DefenseWinsChamps]

As if Lee's defense is any worse than Sullinger's.

In his last season as a full-time starter, Lee's defensive numbers were really good.

http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/101135/tracking/defense/?Season=2013-14&SeasonType=Regular%20Season

Players shot an average of 3.6 percentage points worse against Lee. He is a good defender inside 10 feet (4.5 percentage points worse against him).

Last year, he was about average. He struggled to defend outside of a 15 feet (+3.5%), but inside, he was still good (-2.5). I think it is likely that he struggled to get into a rhythm with so few minutes.

Both years, he held opponents to about 49% at the rim, which would immediately be the best on our team.

My point isn't that he is an all-defensive team defender. But just like there are stats that indicate he is a poor defender, there are also stats that indicate he is a solid defender.

The Warriors had the best defense in the NBA last season. They also only played David Lee for 900 minutes over ~50 games.

When he was getting more minutes, the Warriors defense was worse (although still top 5). Coincidence?
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/GSW/2015.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/leeda02.html

Of course, defensive analytics are notorious for being team-based (witness the inflated Drtg that we see from many sub-par defenders on good defensive teams), so it's right to be skeptical.

The reason that GS was worse with Lee on the court defensively was that he replaced Draymond Green, possibly the best and most versatile defender in the NBA.

That is why I like looking at a opponent fg%, which indicates that Lee is an above average to good defender, especially inside 10 feet.

[D.o.s.]

Opponent FG% is a good thing to examine but why not look within 6ft if you're looking at that?

Also, I think the biggest problem with Lee is not so much his post defense but his inability to cover the pick and roll, which you can see in this video (which is, incidentally, a couple years old and doesn't focus on Lee specifically).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCUmqb9L7_4

of note: getting taken off the dribble by renown dribble artist Omer Asik at the 20 second mark.

[mmmmm]

Opponent FG% is a good thing to examine but why not look within 6ft if you're looking at that?

Also, I think the biggest problem with Lee is not so much his post defense but his inability to cover the pick and roll, which you can see in this video (which is, incidentally, a couple years old and doesn't focus on Lee specifically).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCUmqb9L7_4

of note: getting taken off the dribble by renown dribble artist Omer Asik at the 20 second mark.

Do you really consider that sort of anecdotal video to be any more useful than all the anecdotal highlight reels one can always find that make "player X" look like a superstar?

Just as even the most clumsy D-Leaguer will occasionally have that perfectly timed play that has him exploding to the hoop, slamming it home like MJ, even the best defenders get caught leaning or out of position or whatever, resulting in a play that makes them look like a matador.

Aside from the anecdotal nature of it, how relevant is it if it is from a "couple of years old"?  I've already shown how the team around Lee changed and how his defensive numbers changed with that since that video was made.

I've given you numbers that indicate that, statistically, the teams and units that Lee played on for the Warriors more recently have posted very good defensive numbers.   If Lee were truly as easy to exploit as this video would suggest, don't you think that teams would have been all over that?