Stringing Fans Along

[Scintan]

Fair enough.  I'll agree that what the Knicks and Lakers have done is worse, though I will say that those teams, like the Sixers, have gotten high picks out of it, and there's always the chance that they get bailed out by those picks turning into stars.  No such bail out is coming for the Celtics.

I don't think the Knicks or Lakers really have a strategy or process.  They are really just waiting for their location and name to pull them out of the doldrums. 


That's why I really would like to focus on the Hinkie vs Ainge distinction.  Both guys have a process, as far as we can tell.  One is a lot more controversial than the other.  Nobody has accused Ainge of running a Ponzi scam.

I guess I just don't put much stock in the "results" we've gotten so far.  A 40 win team of role players who will probably all bounce around the league their whole careers?  That's not so much a result as a side effect of Ainge's strategy.  Yes, they were more fun to watch last year than a tank job, but that alone doesn't make Ainge's strategy so much different than Hinkie's.

The Lakers are hamstrung by a combination of being a bad team and having a declining Prima Donna as the alpha player.  On the other hand, they'll be putting Randle and Russell on the floor this season, and that could change the fortunes of that franchise.

[PhoSita]

Throw this into the discussion:

Half-full Celtics fan: It’s only been a couple years, give this rebuild some time! We’ll have plenty of cap room to chase Big Names next summer!

Half-empty Celtics fan: Everyone will have cap room next year. And if this summer has been any indication, almost all of the highest-impact names stayed put (so far) – Love, Dragic, Jimmy Butler, Kawhi Leonard, Anthony Davis, etc – as players chase security. Are we going to have to settle for the likes of DeMarre Carroll (a rich man’s Crowder)?

What if the Morey playbook is looking luckier and luckier by the year, and the Thunder just made a catastrophic error in trading Harden? With the cap going up significantly, nobody is going to let a Top 5 pick slip through the cracks again. At what point do the 76ers and Celtics look themselves in the mirror and say, how the hell did we end up in Kings/Timberwolves territory?

http://thebiglead.com/2015/07/02/what-the-hell-are-the-boston-celtics-doing/

[hwangjini_1]

Fair enough.  I'll agree that what the Knicks and Lakers have done is worse, though I will say that those teams, like the Sixers, have gotten high picks out of it, and there's always the chance that they get bailed out by those picks turning into stars.  No such bail out is coming for the Celtics.

I don't think the Knicks or Lakers really have a strategy or process.  They are really just waiting for their location and name to pull them out of the doldrums. 


That's why I really would like to focus on the Hinkie vs Ainge distinction.  Both guys have a process, as far as we can tell.  One is a lot more controversial than the other.  Nobody has accused Ainge of running a Ponzi scam.

I guess I just don't put much stock in the "results" we've gotten so far.  A 40 win team of role players who will probably all bounce around the league their whole careers?  That's not so much a result as a side effect of Ainge's strategy.  Yes, they were more fun to watch last year than a tank job, but that alone doesn't make Ainge's strategy so much different than Hinkie's.

The Lakers are hamstrung by a combination of being a bad team and having a declining Prima Donna as the alpha player.  On the other hand, they'll be putting Randle and Russell on the floor this season, and that could change the fortunes of that franchise.

i understand that the rookies may make a difference, but history indicates that most rookies do not make a difference most of the time, mostly. besides, as good as randle maybe on offense, his defence is just as bad. plus he hasnt played in a year.

so, i think the lakers will continue to dwell in suck-land for a while. yes, i am happy. 

[Celtics18]

I think an element of cheering for a team yet to reach "consistent contender" status is this anticipatory feeling you describe.

I feel the difference between us and the Sixers is that we are not apologists of losing. The Celtics try every season to improve, and put out a product that is enjoyable for fans to watch. We may be constructing the equivalent of an NBA mid-major, as a few posters have suggested. However, I feel we can at least take pride in the fact that we try to win.

To me, that's a big difference.

TP.  Right now, I feel like what Ainge and Stevens and the Celtics are trying to accomplish is very transparent. 

Of course, they'd love to make the big deal that puts us over the top and vaults us into contender status.  However, those deals are rare and they aren't guaranteed.  In the meantime, they are trying to build a team that plays hard, plays smart, competes without having big superstars, and makes the fan base proud of them. 

I'll gladly take that for now.  I'm lucky that I've never felt that every year that we aren't a legitimate title contender is simply a wasted one.  I get excited for every Celtics season and am looking forward to next year's where we enter as a scrappy, young, up and coming, team oriented squad that will have a good chance to win at least half our games and be among the top eight in the East yet again. 

[celticsfan8591]

I agree with everything you said.  I think I'm in the minority, but I have no issue with what Hinkie is doing.  It's pretty clear that you can't win in this league without at least one superstar, so I don't fault Hinkie for trying to maximize his chances at getting one.  It's a risky strategy because he's basically betting everything on a few players developing well (and staying healthy), and if any of these blue chippers don't pan out they're screwed.  But I like their chances of winning a championship with their current core a lot better than ours.

[Scintan]

Fair enough.  I'll agree that what the Knicks and Lakers have done is worse, though I will say that those teams, like the Sixers, have gotten high picks out of it, and there's always the chance that they get bailed out by those picks turning into stars.  No such bail out is coming for the Celtics.

I don't think the Knicks or Lakers really have a strategy or process.  They are really just waiting for their location and name to pull them out of the doldrums. 


That's why I really would like to focus on the Hinkie vs Ainge distinction.  Both guys have a process, as far as we can tell.  One is a lot more controversial than the other.  Nobody has accused Ainge of running a Ponzi scam.

I guess I just don't put much stock in the "results" we've gotten so far.  A 40 win team of role players who will probably all bounce around the league their whole careers?  That's not so much a result as a side effect of Ainge's strategy.  Yes, they were more fun to watch last year than a tank job, but that alone doesn't make Ainge's strategy so much different than Hinkie's.

The Lakers are hamstrung by a combination of being a bad team and having a declining Prima Donna as the alpha player.  On the other hand, they'll be putting Randle and Russell on the floor this season, and that could change the fortunes of that franchise.

i understand that the rookies may make a difference, but history indicates that most rookies do not make a difference most of the time, mostly. besides, as good as randle maybe on offense, his defence is just as bad. plus he hasnt played in a year.

so, i think the lakers will continue to dwell in suck-land for a while. yes, i am happy. 

It's not about the Lakers rookies taking them to 60 wins, especially given the conference they are in.  It's going to be about the Lakers rookies showing real signs of being high end players.  That's what L.A. needs to turn things around.

Will Russell/Randle show more/less/same in comparison to Smart's rookie season?  That's what I'm talking about.

[Snakehead]

Sad to see Celtics fans with the impatience, unrealistic expectations, whining attitudes of Lakers fans.  Don't this as an attack OP or on everyone with a different viewpoint, but I've seen a lot of it the last few days and it's just disappointing.

I think an element of cheering for a team yet to reach "consistent contender" status is this anticipatory feeling you describe.

I feel the difference between us and the Sixers is that we are not apologists of losing. The Celtics try every season to improve, and put out a product that is enjoyable for fans to watch. We may be constructing the equivalent of an NBA mid-major, as a few posters have suggested. However, I feel we can at least take pride in the fact that we try to win.

To me, that's a big difference.

TP.  Right now, I feel like what Ainge and Stevens and the Celtics are trying to accomplish is very transparent. 

Of course, they'd love to make the big deal that puts us over the top and vaults us into contender status.  However, those deals are rare and they aren't guaranteed.  In the meantime, they are trying to build a team that plays hard, plays smart, competes without having big superstars, and makes the fan base proud of them. 

I'll gladly take that for now.  I'm lucky that I've never felt that every year that we aren't a legitimate title contender is simply a wasted one.  I get excited for every Celtics season and am looking forward to next year's where we enter as a scrappy, young, up and coming, team oriented squad that will have a good chance to win at least half our games and be among the top eight in the East yet again. 

Good posts.

[SHAQATTACK]

Danny blew it big time.

He didn't put the Celtics into position to get a big man .

Yet he has the team set up with Low talent with no chance of winning the EAST , small player who can't compete with the other teams in the league .

If you can't beat the Cavs ......put a team on the floor that's competitive , you screwing the fans .

Danny why are you screwing the fans with D league talent , but won't coach them into a lottery pickup of a big man to build around.or star.......without elite talent you can't compete in the NBA

How about ......stopping with the lip service and using the picks to put a REAL center on the team ...or start over ....

Better yet .....leave so somebody else can do something

[D.o.s.]

I think an element of cheering for a team yet to reach "consistent contender" status is this anticipatory feeling you describe.

I feel the difference between us and the Sixers is that we are not apologists of losing. The Celtics try every season to improve, and put out a product that is enjoyable for fans to watch. We may be constructing the equivalent of an NBA mid-major, as a few posters have suggested. However, I feel we can at least take pride in the fact that we try to win.

To me, that's a big difference.

I think it's largely semantics.

[Who]

There was a lot of ugliness in Philly in second half of the season two years ago and early last season but I thought their team started to take some shape late last year. A couple of those young role players are panning out as NBA caliber talents (Jerian Grant, Jakarr Sampson, Hollis Thompson, Robert Covington). Nerlens Noel is terrific. They just added Jahill Okafor who is a very talented young player.

I think they have the makeup of an interesting team now. Not a good team. A bad team. But there is enough pieces there that you could actually watch without feeling the need to throw something at the television (nevermind how angry you'd be if you were paying money to go to the game).

I don't think Philly is that bad a situation anymore. No longer that catastrophically bad team they were previously.

Just your typical bad team in the early stages of a rebuilding process.

[Snakehead]

Also hilarious is people saying no stars will ever get moved again since the cap is going up.  Stars always move.  Not all the time (obviously) but the cap going up doesn't matter.  Every player's salary will go up too, so why won't the same money squeezes occur?  Aren't we watching All Star caliber players move this very year?   So illogical.

I think an element of cheering for a team yet to reach "consistent contender" status is this anticipatory feeling you describe.

I feel the difference between us and the Sixers is that we are not apologists of losing. The Celtics try every season to improve, and put out a product that is enjoyable for fans to watch. We may be constructing the equivalent of an NBA mid-major, as a few posters have suggested. However, I feel we can at least take pride in the fact that we try to win.

To me, that's a big difference.

I think it's largely semantics.

Not to fans who enjoy watching competitive basketball.

[Eddie20]

Danny blew it big time.

He didn't put the Celtics into position to get a big man .

Yet he has the team set up with Low talent with no chance of winning the EAST , small player who can't compete with the other teams in the league .

If you can't beat the Cavs ......put a team on the floor that's competitive , you screwing the fans .

Danny why are you screwing the fans

How about ......stopping with the lip service and using the picks to put a REAL center on the team ...or start over ....

Better yet .....leave so somebody else can do something

Can you please provide an example of what center(s) we'd have if he were willing to deal picks?

[Who]

Also hilarious is people saying no stars will ever get moved again since the cap is going up.  Stars always move.

I think LESS stars will move (be traded, I mean).

I think teams will feel less boxed in because the added cap space gives them opportunities to enhance their team and move forward again. So I think less teams will feel forced into rebuilding and thus less stars be moved (for picks, youngsters, cap space type trade packages).

There will still be opportunities. Just fewer of them.

[D.o.s.]

Fewer*

[Snakehead]

Also hilarious is people saying no stars will ever get moved again since the cap is going up.  Stars always move.

I think LESS stars will move (be traded, I mean).

I think teams will feel less boxed in because the added cap space gives them opportunities to enhance their team and move forward again. So I think less teams will feel forced into rebuilding and thus less stars be moved (for picks, youngsters, cap space type trade packages).

There will still be opportunities. Just fewer of them.

Why though?  You think every player's salary won't go up accordingly?  You think the players and their reps will allow that?

What you're suggesting will only occur in the immediate future when there are still guys getting underpaid (like Isaiah Thomas for example).  But as soon as those guys are up for new contracts things will be the same.

We already see some players taking very short deals to get more money with the cap going up and we see players salaries going up already.