Author Topic: "Speculation" Monroe to sign with either Boston or NY (update on 1st page)  (Read 42338 times)

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Offline Rondo9

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If Monroe cares about winning basketball games and titles, he should look at the team that's already a playoff contender with a great coach and a proven front office.


The team without any stars on it right now is certainly nowhere close to a title.  If Monroe wants to win 45 games and lose in the first round, by all means, the Celtics are a safer bet.

With such a threadbare supporting cast, the Knicks have a greater chance of struggling and missing the playoffs.  But if you want to talk about having a shot at going deep into the playoffs and perhaps making the Finals, hitching your wagon to Phil Jackson and Carmelo Anthony is a much better bet.

The Celtics are lot closer to a title than the Knicks who missed the playoffs with Carmelo. They have a proven track record with an front office willing to spend and make smart decisions. The Knicks have Phil Jackson who's on his first year running a team, a first year head coach (who was voted the worst coach, while heaps of praise was lumped on Brad Stevens.) and an unproven rookie.

Offline Celts Fan 508

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If Monroe cares about winning basketball games and titles, he should look at the team that's already a playoff contender with a great coach and a proven front office.


The team without any stars on it right now is certainly nowhere close to a title.  If Monroe wants to win 45 games and lose in the first round, by all means, the Celtics are a safer bet.

With such a threadbare supporting cast, the Knicks have a greater chance of struggling and missing the playoffs.  But if you want to talk about having a shot at going deep into the playoffs and perhaps making the Finals, hitching your wagon to Phil Jackson and Carmelo Anthony is a much better bet.

I agree, but if Celts acquire Tobias Harris then they would become more attractive to Monroe IMO as they have a better young core and would have money and assets to add the last piece or two. 
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Offline TheFlex

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If Monroe gets the max from NY, their team will essentially be Melo, Monroe, Calderon and scraps for $45.  That leaves them with about 22 million under the projected salary cap.

If Monroe gets the max from Boston, that will put the Celtics at about $55 million and about 12 million under the cap.

Is that $10 million difference going to be enough to fill the huge talent  hole remaining in NY?

Mike

Russell, Melo, and Monroe is already enough talent to compete in the East.



Russell - Hardaway - Melo - Acy - Monroe

That's already a far better starting lineup than any the Celts put out there last season, provided Russell comes close to living up to his draft status.

I would guess if they got Monroe and kept 4 then they'd try to nab a couple of superior role players. I think you're understating LeBron's greatness. Sure, if you have LBJ you could surround him with HS Varsity players and he'd make the Finals. That's not the case for most other stars, especially non-top-five stars like Melo. I love Melo, Monroe and Russell but that trio at this point in their respective careers would not make the ECFs with THJr and Acy starting, especially with hardly any depth on the bench. I think they'd be a little bit better than what Brooklyn was this year.

Let's say they do get Monroe and take Russell. They could add Mike Dunleavy and Pero Antic and trot out:

Galloway/Calderon
Russell/THJr
Dunleavy/C. Early/T. Antetokounmpo/[Melo]
Melo/[C. Early]/Quincy Acy/[T. Antetokounmpo]
Monroe/Antic

That team could probably get to the ECFs


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Cap space: $24 mil.

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Offline MBunge

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If Monroe cares about winning basketball games and titles, he should look at the team that's already a playoff contender with a great coach and a proven front office.


The team without any stars on it right now is certainly nowhere close to a title.  If Monroe wants to win 45 games and lose in the first round, by all means, the Celtics are a safer bet.

With such a threadbare supporting cast, the Knicks have a greater chance of struggling and missing the playoffs.  But if you want to talk about having a shot at going deep into the playoffs and perhaps making the Finals, hitching your wagon to Phil Jackson and Carmelo Anthony is a much better bet.

They're closer to a title than the Knicks, who will have to post one of the greatest season-to-season improvements in NBA history...JUST TO BE AS GOOD AS BOSTON WAS LAST SEASON.

And you do remember Phil isn't coaching the Knicks, right?

Oh, and if Boston staples a 1st to Wallace and trades him, Ainge will then have just as much cap space as New York.

And I'm forgetting, how many conference finals has Melo been in?

Mike

Offline MJohnnyboy

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If Monroe cares about winning basketball games and titles, he should look at the team that's already a playoff contender with a great coach and a proven front office.


The team without any stars on it right now is certainly nowhere close to a title.  If Monroe wants to win 45 games and lose in the first round, by all means, the Celtics are a safer bet.

With such a threadbare supporting cast, the Knicks have a greater chance of struggling and missing the playoffs.  But if you want to talk about having a shot at going deep into the playoffs and perhaps making the Finals, hitching your wagon to Phil Jackson and Carmelo Anthony is a much better bet.

They're closer to a title than the Knicks, who will have to post one of the greatest season-to-season improvements in NBA history...JUST TO BE AS GOOD AS BOSTON WAS LAST SEASON.

And you do remember Phil isn't coaching the Knicks, right?

Oh, and if Boston staples a 1st to Wallace and trades him, Ainge will then have just as much cap space as New York.

And I'm forgetting, how many conference finals has Melo been in?

Mike

He's been to ONE thank you very much and it was 6 years ago, so... yeah! Melo is solid when it comes to leading his team to victory!

Hey its better than Tracy McGrady ;)

Offline Rondo9

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If Monroe gets the max from NY, their team will essentially be Melo, Monroe, Calderon and scraps for $45.  That leaves them with about 22 million under the projected salary cap.

If Monroe gets the max from Boston, that will put the Celtics at about $55 million and about 12 million under the cap.

Is that $10 million difference going to be enough to fill the huge talent  hole remaining in NY?

Mike

Russell, Melo, and Monroe is already enough talent to compete in the East.



Russell - Hardaway - Melo - Acy - Monroe

That's already a far better starting lineup than any the Celts put out there last season, provided Russell comes close to living up to his draft status.

I would guess if they got Monroe and kept 4 then they'd try to nab a couple of superior role players. I think you're understating LeBron's greatness. Sure, if you have LBJ you could surround him with HS Varsity players and he'd make the Finals. That's not the case for most other stars, especially non-top-five stars like Melo. I love Melo, Monroe and Russell but that trio at this point in their respective careers would not make the ECFs with THJr and Acy starting, especially with hardly any depth on the bench. I think they'd be a little bit better than what Brooklyn was this year.

Let's say they do get Monroe and take Russell. They could add Mike Dunleavy and Pero Antic and trot out:

Galloway/Calderon
Russell/THJr
Dunleavy/C. Early/T. Antetokounmpo/[Melo]
Melo/[C. Early]/Quincy Acy/[T. Antetokounmpo]
Monroe/Antic

That team could probably get to the ECFs

Sounds like a first round out to me.

Offline PhoSita

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And I'm forgetting, how many conference finals has Melo been in?


He's been the main man on a conference finals team one time, which is one time more than anybody on the Celtics.


Come on now.  We can be positive about our scrappy Celtics team without resorting to grandiose hyperbole.  They made the playoffs.  Good for them.  There's a good chance the entire roster will be turned over before they contend for a title again.
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Offline Rondo9

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And I'm forgetting, how many conference finals has Melo been in?


He's been the main man on a conference finals team one time, which is one time more than anybody on the Celtics.


Come on now.  We can be positive about our scrappy Celtics team without resorting to grandiose hyperbole.  They made the playoffs.  Good for them.  There's a good chance the entire roster will be turned over before they contend for a title again.

Okay, but what has he done since then? I agree that the Celtics roster may radically different, but the point is just because the Knicks have Melo, doesn't really make them a much more attractive team than ragtag of role players who won 40 games this year.

Offline crimson_stallion

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Monroe is a big, skilled player who is legitimately difficult to handle inside, and who rarely gets hurt.

It's hilarious to me that anybody questions the idea of the Celtics signing him.  If they can find a way to acquire a player like that -- regardless of fit -- by all means they should do so.  He'd immediately be the clear-cut best player on the team.

I agree wholeheartedly.

The other good thing is that due to his age and number of years in the league, he'd be a pretty affordable signing.  Even on a max contract, Monroe would only be making about $13M a year.  Even if you look at the player is RIGHT NOW (his combined health, consistency and production) with the current cap, he's worth that money. 

Once you consider the fact that hes still improving as a player, plus the upcoming salary cap rise - that could end up being one of the leagues best contracts one or two years from now.

There are really only two free agents I can think of this year who are young (<26), who are unrestricted, and who seem reasonable likely to leave their current teams - they are Kevin Love and Greg Monroe.

I know many will disagree with me, but I feel that out of those two guys Monroe is the better fit. for us because:

* Health (self explanatory - key consideration when signing somebody to a long term max deal)
* Positional need (we only have one true center now and he isn't good enough to start)
* Roster fit (Monroe lives inside, fits well with the perimeter game of Sully/Bass/Olynyk)
* Size (big guys with skill create matchup problems, and the NBA is all about matchups)
* Upside (25 years old and just had his career-best season, Love is 26 and just had his worst)
* Chemistry (doesn't need lots of touches to be productive, so should fit well with other stars)
* Attitude (didn't make a big deal about not starting in Detroit, held his tongue and did his job)

« Last Edit: June 15, 2015, 01:12:38 AM by crimson_stallion »

Offline Csfan1984

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Monroe is a big, skilled player who is legitimately difficult to handle inside, and who rarely gets hurt.

It's hilarious to me that anybody questions the idea of the Celtics signing him.  If they can find a way to acquire a player like that -- regardless of fit -- by all means they should do so.  He'd immediately be the clear-cut best player on the team.

It amazes me that people are arguing that Zeller is just as good.  Monroe is one of the top 4 post players in transition, passes great, can dominate scoring in the post, and is a rebounding machine.
That wasn't my argument. I was saying he is not that big of an upgrade to get excited about. Not like he is Dwight Howard or Cousins. The fact that he will however be paid like it is what I find not very appealing. He is added talent without a doubt but he will be a costly one.

Offline crimson_stallion

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Monroe is a big, skilled player who is legitimately difficult to handle inside, and who rarely gets hurt.

It's hilarious to me that anybody questions the idea of the Celtics signing him.  If they can find a way to acquire a player like that -- regardless of fit -- by all means they should do so.  He'd immediately be the clear-cut best player on the team.

It amazes me that people are arguing that Zeller is just as good.  Monroe is one of the top 4 post players in transition, passes great, can dominate scoring in the post, and is a rebounding machine.
That wasn't my argument. I was saying he is not that big of an upgrade to get excited about. Not like he is Dwight Howard or Cousins. The fact that he will however be paid like it is what I find not very appealing. He is added talent without a doubt but he will be a costly one.

He's only been in the league for 5 years, so his max contract would only be $12M-13M per year.  When you consider that the new CBA is going to almost double the salary cap, a $12M-$13 contract 2 years from now becomes about the equivalent of what a $7-$8M contract is today. 

I don't consider that a high price to pay for a 25 year old 6'11" big man who gives you 17/10/3 in 32 minutes.

Look at what other big men in the NBA are being paid - even small taller (6'8"+) small forwards.  Tall guys with skill make a killing in this league. 

Monroe deserves that pay check more than 90% of bigs out there. He is not LaMarcus Aldridge / Dwight Howard good...but he's pretty darn close to being Marc Gasol / Zach Randolf good. 

Offline Denis998

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Monroe is a big, skilled player who is legitimately difficult to handle inside, and who rarely gets hurt.

It's hilarious to me that anybody questions the idea of the Celtics signing him.  If they can find a way to acquire a player like that -- regardless of fit -- by all means they should do so.  He'd immediately be the clear-cut best player on the team.

It amazes me that people are arguing that Zeller is just as good.  Monroe is one of the top 4 post players in transition, passes great, can dominate scoring in the post, and is a rebounding machine.
That wasn't my argument. I was saying he is not that big of an upgrade to get excited about. Not like he is Dwight Howard or Cousins. The fact that he will however be paid like it is what I find not very appealing. He is added talent without a doubt but he will be a costly one.

He's only been in the league for 5 years, so his max contract would only be $12M-13M per year.  When you consider that the new CBA is going to almost double the salary cap, a $12M-$13 contract 2 years from now becomes about the equivalent of what a $7-$8M contract is today. 

I don't consider that a high price to pay for a 25 year old 6'11" big man who gives you 17/10/3 in 32 minutes.

Look at what other big men in the NBA are being paid - even small taller (6'8"+) small forwards.  Tall guys with skill make a killing in this league. 

Monroe deserves that pay check more than 90% of bigs out there. He is not LaMarcus Aldridge / Dwight Howard good...but he's pretty darn close to being Marc Gasol / Zach Randolf good.
if the cap is 68 million next season, his max will be 17 million.

Offline Csfan1984

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Monroe is a big, skilled player who is legitimately difficult to handle inside, and who rarely gets hurt.

It's hilarious to me that anybody questions the idea of the Celtics signing him.  If they can find a way to acquire a player like that -- regardless of fit -- by all means they should do so.  He'd immediately be the clear-cut best player on the team.

It amazes me that people are arguing that Zeller is just as good.  Monroe is one of the top 4 post players in transition, passes great, can dominate scoring in the post, and is a rebounding machine.
That wasn't my argument. I was saying he is not that big of an upgrade to get excited about. Not like he is Dwight Howard or Cousins. The fact that he will however be paid like it is what I find not very appealing. He is added talent without a doubt but he will be a costly one.

He's only been in the league for 5 years, so his max contract would only be $12M-13M per year.  When you consider that the new CBA is going to almost double the salary cap, a $12M-$13 contract 2 years from now becomes about the equivalent of what a $7-$8M contract is today. 

I don't consider that a high price to pay for a 25 year old 6'11" big man who gives you 17/10/3 in 32 minutes.

Look at what other big men in the NBA are being paid - even small taller (6'8"+) small forwards.  Tall guys with skill make a killing in this league. 

Monroe deserves that pay check more than 90% of bigs out there. He is not LaMarcus Aldridge / Dwight Howard good...but he's pretty darn close to being Marc Gasol / Zach Randolf good.
if the cap is 68 million next season, his max will be 17 million.
^this is closer to what he will get. Basically same $ as Cousins is now and how LA, Gasol and Howard were being paid before new and coming contracts. Monroe has never been on their level either so it's a big over pay or NBA inflation is out of control.

Offline PhoSita

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And I'm forgetting, how many conference finals has Melo been in?


He's been the main man on a conference finals team one time, which is one time more than anybody on the Celtics.


Come on now.  We can be positive about our scrappy Celtics team without resorting to grandiose hyperbole.  They made the playoffs.  Good for them.  There's a good chance the entire roster will be turned over before they contend for a title again.

Okay, but what has he done since then? I agree that the Celtics roster may radically different, but the point is just because the Knicks have Melo, doesn't really make them a much more attractive team than ragtag of role players who won 40 games this year.


And I'm saying having that star in place, even if that one guy isn't enough to guarantee that a team is a contender, automatically makes a team like the Knicks more appealing to a free agent that has title aspirations than a team like the Celtics.

Now, if Monroe isn't looking to compete for titles right away, but wants a situation where he can grow and become one of the leaders of a young team on an upward trajectory, it's a different story. 

If we're talking winning in the short term, though, the team with the star already on board, not to mention a top pick in this year's draft, wins out every time over the roster full of plucky journeymen.
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Offline mmmmm

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Using Larry Coon's projection, the salary cap for 2015-16 will be about 66.7M.  The 'cap' number used to calculate max salaries would then be 61.36M.

That would put the max for Monroe (a 5th year player, eligible for 25% of the latter number) at about 15.3M.

Just a year later, the salary cap is expected to hit on the order of 89M, so the price for a similar player will jump to 20.5M.

If you can lock a player like Monroe (only 25 years old) for 4-year deal with a starting basis of 15.5M, he will look like a bargain in one year and a steal in three.

Danny obviously has to shop around.  And personally, I'd still give the edge to Aldridge as the preferred FA big out there.  At this point in time he is a better player overall than Monroe.   But one of the reason's he is better is because he is more experienced (almost 5 years older) and he will cost 18.8M per to start his contract this year.  So it's not a huge edge when you consider cost/value.  So I'll be glad if Danny can lock up either one of these guys.

It's all moot, of course, unless Danny actually convinces one of these guys to sign with us.

If I'm Monroe, one of my questions would be:  Who is going to be my point guard?

Because if we continue with the offensively-challenged three-guard combination of Bradley-Smart-Turner in the starting lineup, why should Monroe want to put up with that?

That trio were all terrible at running the pick-and-roll and at feeding _Zeller_, who like Monroe is a very good pick and roll offensive big man.

For whatever reason, Brad opted to not start Thomas, despite Thomas being a premier pick-and-roll guard who should have been combined with Zeller as much as possible.

When Zeller was on the floor _without_ Thomas, his efficiency was good:  53.1% eFG, 55.5% TS%.
When Zeller was on the floor _with_ Thomas, his efficiency jumped to 59.0% eFG and 62.7% TS!!!

But unfortunately, Thomas was only on the floor for 27% of Zeller's minutes (as of when IT joined the team).  And Zeller was only on the floor for 32% of IT's minutes.

Which also meant that 68% of the time IT was on the floor with other bigs not named Zeller who were not as good at pick & roll (Sully and IT played well together, but only for limited minutes until that last game of the playoffs).

This meant that, in a typical game, we were only putting one of our most potent offensive weapons (the IT+TZ p&r combo) on the floor for a handful of minutes.

I think one big benefit of bringing Monroe on board, putting Zeller on the bench, is that we would have 48 minutes of excellent P&R talent at the center position, so as long as IT got 30+ minutes, whether off the bench or starting, we would have that weapon working in our offense for at least 100% of those minutes.

If Smart can make a step up in his game as a playmaking PG this year, that would really help to improve that for the rest of the game, but can you sell that 'potential' to Monroe or Aldridge?

We also need to get better outside shooting than we got from AB+Smart+Turner+Bass last year, though, to really take advantage of Monroe.  Replacing Bass with Sully or KO or Jerebko would help there.   I think we need to also get a serious upgrade at SF.

What's Danny's sales pitch to these guys going to be about that?

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