"Speculation" Monroe to sign with either Boston or NY (update on 1st page)

[SparzWizard]

Hmm, well if Monroe wants to win championships then he know better to join Boston.

He don't wanna play next to a ballhogger and a joke of a coach who was obviously pro-tanking!

[MBunge]

If Monroe gets the max from NY, their team will essentially be Melo, Monroe, Calderon and scraps for $45.  That leaves them with about 22 million under the projected salary cap.

If Monroe gets the max from Boston, that will put the Celtics at about $55 million and about 12 million under the cap.

Is that $10 million difference going to be enough to fill the huge talent  hole remaining in NY?

Mike

Russell, Melo, and Monroe is already enough talent to compete in the East.



Russell - Hardaway - Melo - Acy - Monroe

That's already a far better starting lineup than any the Celts put out there last season, provided Russell comes close to living up to his draft status.

1.  Have you ever seen Acy and Hardaway play?

2.  Russell is nowhere close to Wiggins as a prospect and Wiggins did what for Minny last season?

I have never seen a fan message board so consistently overrate other team's players like this one.

Mike

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

If Monroe gets the max from NY, their team will essentially be Melo, Monroe, Calderon and scraps for $45.  That leaves them with about 22 million under the projected salary cap.

If Monroe gets the max from Boston, that will put the Celtics at about $55 million and about 12 million under the cap.

Is that $10 million difference going to be enough to fill the huge talent  hole remaining in NY?

Mike

Russell, Melo, and Monroe is already enough talent to compete in the East.



Russell - Hardaway - Melo - Acy - Monroe

That's already a far better starting lineup than any the Celts put out there last season, provided Russell comes close to living up to his draft status.

1.  Have you ever seen Acy and Hardaway play?

2.  Russell is nowhere close to Wiggins as a prospect and Wiggins did what for Minny last season?

I have never seen a fan message board so consistently overrate other team's players like this one.

Mike

Yep. That's what I have been saying.

[PhoSita]

I have never seen a fan message board so consistently overrate other team's players like this one.

Mike

We're watching a Finals where castoffs and scrubs are doing everything needed to buoy a team that is otherwise entirely and completely reliant on a star player.

This is a star's league.  I will take the team with a top tier star, a second tier star, and a potential star prospect over the team with a bunch of role players, any day.

Hardaway, Calderon, Acy, Aldrich -- players that will look completely overmatched if they're asked to do much.   But they can each do a couple of things well, and that's enough if there are two to three guys on the team doing all of the heavy lifting.  And that's leaving out the veteran minimum and MLE types they could also bring in if they were in win-now mode.



The Celtics are a team without anything resembling a star -- not even a second or third tier star like half the guys in the Hawks' starting lineup -- in a league that belongs to star players.

If fans on this site "overrate" stars on other teams, or prospects that look like they could turn into stars, it is because they are acutely, painfully aware of that predicament.

[crimson_stallion]

ugghh....

so greg Monroe is so great and going to bring us to the promised land. how come he couldn't do that in Detroit?

this is aiming low at it's best imo.

The reason for this is because Detroit never used Monroe the right way.

Many people don't realise this, but Monroe is a natural Center - he's not a Power Forward.  There are many reasons why this is true:

1) He lacks the mobility to be an effective defender at the PF spot
2) He doesn't stretch the floor (92% of his offense came from within 10 feet this season)

If you look at Monroe's advanced stats (PER vs opponent PER) you'll see that Monroe consistently dominated his opponents when he was playing at the Center spot.  However when he was playing at the Power Forward spot, he PER and his opponents PER were essentially equal. 

Detroit has played Monroe at PF ever since Drummond has been there, yet almost every statistic you look at will tell you that Monroe MUST be a center if you want to make the most of his talents.  He can still play some PF and can hold his own there, but if you're playing him at the PF spot as his primary position, you're wasting his talent. 

Detroit's roster has been an absolute mess the last few seasons.  Not only have they played Monroe at PF, but they also had Josh Smith at SF - an equally poor rotation decision.  Smith is not a great outside shooter, but is a pretty good rebounder, a good shot-blocker, and a VERY efficient scorer around the basket.  There is absolutely no reason to play Smith at PF except that he's a high profile player, he was on a big contract, and the PF / C spots were already filled. 

So Detroit had Drummond at Center, Monroe at PF and Josh Smith at SF.  That's three guys who don't spare the floor, all on the court at the same time.  Terrible. 

Then you add Brandon Jennings (possibly THE most inefficient scorer among all starting point guards) as your starter at the PG spot. 

Put that all together, thrown in poor coaching and horrible management, and you have a situation that could never possibly have a hope of achieving any success at all. 

Right now, Monroe is:

* A skilled inside scorer
* An excellent offensive and defensive rebounder
* Very good at drawing fouls, and a good free throw shooter
* An excellent passer for a big man

Another nice thing about Monroe is that he doesn't need to be the center of attention in order to be effective/productive.  He averaged 18 points per 36 minutes this season despite a pretty modest usage rate, and even came off the bench for a good portion of the season (because the Drummond/Monroe/Smith trio fit so poorly together).

The biggest thing holding Monroe back right now is his lack of offense outside 10 feet - he took only 8% of his shots from out there.  But his career stats indicate that he by no means incapable of making those shots.  He's shown he can hit the midrange jumper (43% from 16 - 3PT in 2011/12, 41% from 10 - 16 feet in 2013/14) but he just hasn't done it with any consistency.  Not surprising given that only 13% of his shots have come from midrange over his career.  It's hard to shoot consistently if you're taking the shot so infrequently.

This is why I feel Boston could really be a good fit for Monroe.  Brad Stevens has been pushing every player who's come here to take more outside shots and to develop their jump shots from distance.  I have no doubt he'd encourage Monroe to take more midrange jumpers if he came here, and if there's anybody in the league to could develop Monroe into a consistent midrange shooter, I think Stevens is the guy.

Monroe with a jumper would be a very tough cover offensively.  I mean he's ALREADY a tough cover, but add a jump shot to his game and I think he'd be a legit 20/10 guy.

In a nutshell Greg Monroe's upside offensively is Al Jefferson, although Monroe is a more efficient scorer (due to his ability to get to the line at a high rate - which Jefferson does not). 

The big difference is that statistically, Monroe is actually a plus defender at the center spot (he has a positive Defensive RPM) whereas Jefferson is statistically one of the worst defenders in the NBA.

So If you imagine an Al Jefferson clone who can hold his own on defense and who gets to the line more, then that's Monroe's upside in a nutshell.

[PhoSita]

Monroe is a big, skilled player who is legitimately difficult to handle inside, and who rarely gets hurt.

It's hilarious to me that anybody questions the idea of the Celtics signing him.  If they can find a way to acquire a player like that -- regardless of fit -- by all means they should do so.  He'd immediately be the clear-cut best player on the team.

[Celtics4ever]

I have never seen a fan message board so consistently overrate other team's players like this one.

Mike

They over rate our own too, much worse.

[Celts Fan 508]

Monroe is a big, skilled player who is legitimately difficult to handle inside, and who rarely gets hurt.

It's hilarious to me that anybody questions the idea of the Celtics signing him.  If they can find a way to acquire a player like that -- regardless of fit -- by all means they should do so.  He'd immediately be the clear-cut best player on the team.

It amazes me that people are arguing that Zeller is just as good.  Monroe is one of the top 4 post players in transition, passes great, can dominate scoring in the post, and is a rebounding machine.   

[Rondo9]

I have never seen a fan message board so consistently overrate other team's players like this one.

Mike

We're watching a Finals where castoffs and scrubs are doing everything needed to buoy a team that is otherwise entirely and completely reliant on a star player.

This is a star's league.  I will take the team with a top tier star, a second tier star, and a potential star prospect over the team with a bunch of role players, any day.

Hardaway, Calderon, Acy, Aldrich -- players that will look completely overmatched if they're asked to do much.   But they can each do a couple of things well, and that's enough if there are two to three guys on the team doing all of the heavy lifting.  And that's leaving out the veteran minimum and MLE types they could also bring in if they were in win-now mode.



The Celtics are a team without anything resembling a star -- not even a second or third tier star like half the guys in the Hawks' starting lineup -- in a league that belongs to star players.

If fans on this site "overrate" stars on other teams, or prospects that look like they could turn into stars, it is because they are acutely, painfully aware of that predicament.

Melo is not lebron two years ago when he was healthy they missed th playoffs the celtics on the other hand were starless and managed to make the playoffs

[BASS_THUMPER]

lol yall see tequlade..lol

[MBunge]

I have never seen a fan message board so consistently overrate other team's players like this one.

Mike

We're watching a Finals where castoffs and scrubs are doing everything needed to buoy a team that is otherwise entirely and completely reliant on a star player.

This is a star's league.  I will take the team with a top tier star, a second tier star, and a potential star prospect over the team with a bunch of role players, any day.

Hardaway, Calderon, Acy, Aldrich -- players that will look completely overmatched if they're asked to do much.   But they can each do a couple of things well, and that's enough if there are two to three guys on the team doing all of the heavy lifting.  And that's leaving out the veteran minimum and MLE types they could also bring in if they were in win-now mode.

The Knicks sucked last year when Melo was playing.

Boston won 40 games without any kind of post game for much of last season.  How much better would the team be with a legitimate 15/10 threat at center?

If you want to argue for Melo, #4 and cap space, that's legitimate.  But don't throw up Acy and Hardaway, two guys who aren't even as good as Shumpert.

Mike

[MBunge]

I have never seen a fan message board so consistently overrate other team's players like this one.

Mike

They over rate our own too, much worse.

I'll give you that.

Mike

[PhoSita]

If you want to argue for Melo, #4 and cap space, that's legitimate.  But don't throw up Acy and Hardaway, two guys who aren't even as good as Shumpert.

Mike

Mentioning those guys was to underscore the point that Melo, #4, and cap space is all you need.  Sure, nearly everybody in the Celtics' playoff rotation was better than Acy and Hardaway.  Doesn't matter.  Having two or three really good players at the top of your roster is always preferable.

So, to connect the dots, if Monroe cares about growing his brand as a player and enjoying more team success, he should join the team in the larger market with a star already in place and a potential young star coming in the draft.

Touting the supporting cast before stars are in place is like talking about the merits of a cart with no horses to pull it.

[MBunge]

If you want to argue for Melo, #4 and cap space, that's legitimate.  But don't throw up Acy and Hardaway, two guys who aren't even as good as Shumpert.

Mike

Mentioning those guys was to underscore the point that Melo, #4, and cap space is all you need.  Sure, nearly everybody in the Celtics' playoff rotation was better than Acy and Hardaway.  Doesn't matter.  Having two or three really good players at the top of your roster is always preferable.

So, to connect the dots, if Monroe cares about growing his brand as a player and enjoying more team success, he should join the team in the larger market with a star already in place and a potential young star coming in the draft.

Touting the supporting cast before stars are in place is like talking about the merits of a cart with no horses to pull it.

If Monroe cares about winning basketball games and titles, he should look at the team that's already a playoff contender with a great coach and a proven front office.

Mike

[PhoSita]

If Monroe cares about winning basketball games and titles, he should look at the team that's already a playoff contender with a great coach and a proven front office.

The team without any stars on it right now is certainly nowhere close to a title.  If Monroe wants to win 45 games and lose in the first round, by all means, the Celtics are a safer bet.

With such a threadbare supporting cast, the Knicks have a greater chance of struggling and missing the playoffs.  But if you want to talk about having a shot at going deep into the playoffs and perhaps making the Finals, hitching your wagon to Phil Jackson and Carmelo Anthony is a much better bet.