We still love you Rondo!

[bballdog384]

I love Rondo's game, but he's the guy at the gym who yells at you for not making the right cut or missing a bullet pass. Just not fun to play with unless you fit his vision of the perfect teammate. Not a good leader for a young team.

That being said, I could see him playing really well on a team like the Clippers. Lobs to Blake and Jordan, and surrounded by good shooters. Imagine if they traded Chris Paul for Carmelo and signed Rondo with the MLE. Rondo, Reddick, Anthony, Griffin, Jordan. Just sayin'

[P stoff]

wow...did i just hear you suggest that Rondo and Melo would be an upgrade over Chris Paul?  Other than lobs..which Paul does well already, in what universe would the Clips be better with guy who is a WAY worse  defender, shooter, scorer and overall player.... let alone a potential cancer.

And for Pete's sake will people quit trying to find a place where he can rack up empty stats.... its about a TEAM winning and getting BETTER.  He got 11 assists a game for us and it did jack squat for us in the w/L column due to the shortcomings that offset those numbers. 

Please lets move on.

[tazzmaniac]

A few points:

1. The Rondo hate is pretty nuts. He won us a lot of games. A simple, "I don't think he will come back" I can understand but some of these comments make me a little sad as a fan.

2. WAs he hurt this year in Dallas? I would like to know the full story of why he wasn't playing at the end.

3. Its all about money. I think if Ainge had said, "**** it, i'll just give him the max" he would still be here. Ainge was right not to. But if someone gets him for under 10 mil a year and he bounces back he will be on a good deal. I just have this bad feeling that next year or the year after he could again be a top pg and on a really friendly deal somewhere.

4. Its hard to say that our improvement after RR left was due to rondo sucking. I mean, we wee sucking as a team and when Rondo was traded it was kind of a rallying call for the rest of the team to step up. It reminds me of when Pitino left and we played better. Although I guess I'm making the opposite of the point I want because I really like Rondo and really don't like Pitino.

5. A lot of things would have to happen to make a Rondo return make sense. But I do hope Ainge reaches out to him. Even though he hasn't played amazing lately I still think he has a super competitive mentality and he's not someone I would ever bet against. He was getting like 13 dimes a game for us. Say what ever you want but almost no one else could do that.

on your first point, as i read this thread i dont see a unified, monolithic "hate" being leveled at rondo. i see lots of viewpoints, including appreciation for what he DID before as a celtic. let's not set up a strawfigure.

next point, maybe you could check back on the not playing in dallas stories on the web. it is complex story and no one here would know the full story. but from what i read, carlisle and rondo did not see eye to eye (quite the understatement.) rondo wants to run a team his way, which i can understand. but carlisle also wants to run a team, and do it his way as the coach. in this setting, rondo loses. rondo competed against his coach, and he lost since he is not a superstar.

plus, let's face it, rondo's stats and dallas' w/l record were not as good as before rondo's arrival. something was happening that was not good in the world of dallas basketball.

injury? i see no reason to doubt that was a factor. have you heard anything else on this? if so, please share it.

third point, you mention rondo might become a top pg next year. maybe. but NOT on any and all teams. a point made in this thread, and it is a good point, is that rondo's strengths and style do NOT PLAY OUT EQUALLY WELL ON ALL NBA TEAMS. rondo MUST have the ball in his hand to do well since he cant shoot reliably. such a player will not fit equally well on every nba team. simple enough.

for the CBS run celtics, rondo's style is NOT what is needed or appropriate. so i hope rondo bounces back. but it will have to be with a team whose offense and plays are not like those of the celtics. meaning, rondo cant bounce back with the celtics. this is the wrong place for his talents now. he was a good fit before with doc and the big 3, but a bad fit now.

point four, right. no one can prove the departure of rondo = more celtics wins. we can only make the observation that the celtics won more games after he left. to be honest, i thought the celtics passed the ball as a team far better without rondo. did this lead to wins? dont know. would the celtics have won more games if rondo had stayed? dont know that either. but we can all guess.

point five, here i disagree with you, though i acknowledge your point and intentions. rondo is not a good fit for this celtics team. ainge should not reach out to him. ainge should thank him and move on to build a different sort of team.

finally point, or question to you, by me. given that rondo plays one sort of basketball game as a ball dominant pg who doesnt shoot well, which teams today in the nba do you think would benefit from having him on board? those are the teams rondo should seek out to revive his career, which is honestly suffering right now.

/agree with all your points.

But I think the last one is the most important - everything else is just a sidebar. The real question is "can Rondo make this team better?". I think the answer to that is most likely no and that was shown by the dramatic increase in the winning percentage once he and Green were traded.

Rondo, even at his best, is a talent who requires a particular scenario to be effective. Simply put, he needs shooters. He needs guys like PP and Ray Allen who can pour in the points in half court sets. He needs vets like KG who can work off the pick and roll. He needs an enforcer in the paint like Perk who will give him the freedom and protection to drive to the hoop.

That is NOT this team. This Celtics crew is lacking in good outside half court shooting. There is no enforcer inside. There's not even a great pick-and-roll specialist. So even if Rondo wanted to come back, he doesn't fit anymore. It's quite likely he would be a negative asset to this team simply based on the system that the rest of the team needs to execute to succeed. That's the crux of the matter. Strictly from a basketball standpoint Rondo doesn't make any sense.

NOW add in the cost of his salary, the opportunity cost of not getting another player for that salary amount, the fact that our single best young asset plays the same position and the risk of similar locker room problems that transpired in Dallas. That's not hate, those are simply facts. In short, there's almost zero chance of a Rondo return being a net positive impact for the Celtics and a major chance of it having a negative impact in multiple ways.

The dramatic increase in winning percentage happened long after the Rondo trade when we were playing mostly weaker East teams at the end of season.   We had an absolutely brutal November schedule.  When Rondo was traded, we were 9-14 but 13 of those games were against eventual playoff teams. 

Bringing Rondo back doesn't make much sense with the team as currently constituted.  That's why I'd love for it to happen.  It would mean that Ainge had made some major moves to acquire star talent and was ready to compete for championships.

Bringing Rondo back makes NO SENSE regardless of how the team is constituted.  Rondo WAS a great passer in the day but he's NOT now.   He has more weaknesses than strengths now and would do nothing but be a pain in the a$$ for Stevens.  No thanks.

Rondo averaged 10.8 asts and 7.5 rebs in the 22 games before he was traded.  He is still a great passer and still has great court vision.  What problems did Rondo cause for Stevens when he was here?  Rondo tried to fit into Stevens' system and Stevens gave Rondo enough leeway running the offense.     

Unfortunately, he has no offensive ability other than being able to pass the ball.  You think his inability to shoot the ball or hit a free throw or his unwillingness to play defense was helpful to Stevens?!?!  He was a problem in Dallas, a problem for Doc, but not a problem for Stevens?!!  Come on now...reality is calling.

We had Bradley and Smart to be the primary guard defenders.  There were times Rondo was stuck guarding SFs that were several inches taller and 20 or 30 pounds heavier.  In Dallas, Rondo primary guard defender and did pretty well at times.  His shooting improved too.  The problems occurred because Carlisle didn't give Rondo much leeway to run the offense.  Rondo should have handled it better but Carlisle should have too.  I expect Rondo to go to a team and coach that fits him better and bounce back. 

[Jonny CC]

A few points:

1. The Rondo hate is pretty nuts. He won us a lot of games. A simple, "I don't think he will come back" I can understand but some of these comments make me a little sad as a fan.

2. WAs he hurt this year in Dallas? I would like to know the full story of why he wasn't playing at the end.

3. Its all about money. I think if Ainge had said, "**** it, i'll just give him the max" he would still be here. Ainge was right not to. But if someone gets him for under 10 mil a year and he bounces back he will be on a good deal. I just have this bad feeling that next year or the year after he could again be a top pg and on a really friendly deal somewhere.

4. Its hard to say that our improvement after RR left was due to rondo sucking. I mean, we wee sucking as a team and when Rondo was traded it was kind of a rallying call for the rest of the team to step up. It reminds me of when Pitino left and we played better. Although I guess I'm making the opposite of the point I want because I really like Rondo and really don't like Pitino.

5. A lot of things would have to happen to make a Rondo return make sense. But I do hope Ainge reaches out to him. Even though he hasn't played amazing lately I still think he has a super competitive mentality and he's not someone I would ever bet against. He was getting like 13 dimes a game for us. Say what ever you want but almost no one else could do that.

on your first point, as i read this thread i dont see a unified, monolithic "hate" being leveled at rondo. i see lots of viewpoints, including appreciation for what he DID before as a celtic. let's not set up a strawfigure.

next point, maybe you could check back on the not playing in dallas stories on the web. it is complex story and no one here would know the full story. but from what i read, carlisle and rondo did not see eye to eye (quite the understatement.) rondo wants to run a team his way, which i can understand. but carlisle also wants to run a team, and do it his way as the coach. in this setting, rondo loses. rondo competed against his coach, and he lost since he is not a superstar.

plus, let's face it, rondo's stats and dallas' w/l record were not as good as before rondo's arrival. something was happening that was not good in the world of dallas basketball.

injury? i see no reason to doubt that was a factor. have you heard anything else on this? if so, please share it.

third point, you mention rondo might become a top pg next year. maybe. but NOT on any and all teams. a point made in this thread, and it is a good point, is that rondo's strengths and style do NOT PLAY OUT EQUALLY WELL ON ALL NBA TEAMS. rondo MUST have the ball in his hand to do well since he cant shoot reliably. such a player will not fit equally well on every nba team. simple enough.

for the CBS run celtics, rondo's style is NOT what is needed or appropriate. so i hope rondo bounces back. but it will have to be with a team whose offense and plays are not like those of the celtics. meaning, rondo cant bounce back with the celtics. this is the wrong place for his talents now. he was a good fit before with doc and the big 3, but a bad fit now.

point four, right. no one can prove the departure of rondo = more celtics wins. we can only make the observation that the celtics won more games after he left. to be honest, i thought the celtics passed the ball as a team far better without rondo. did this lead to wins? dont know. would the celtics have won more games if rondo had stayed? dont know that either. but we can all guess.

point five, here i disagree with you, though i acknowledge your point and intentions. rondo is not a good fit for this celtics team. ainge should not reach out to him. ainge should thank him and move on to build a different sort of team.

finally point, or question to you, by me. given that rondo plays one sort of basketball game as a ball dominant pg who doesnt shoot well, which teams today in the nba do you think would benefit from having him on board? those are the teams rondo should seek out to revive his career, which is honestly suffering right now.

/agree with all your points.

But I think the last one is the most important - everything else is just a sidebar. The real question is "can Rondo make this team better?". I think the answer to that is most likely no and that was shown by the dramatic increase in the winning percentage once he and Green were traded.

Rondo, even at his best, is a talent who requires a particular scenario to be effective. Simply put, he needs shooters. He needs guys like PP and Ray Allen who can pour in the points in half court sets. He needs vets like KG who can work off the pick and roll. He needs an enforcer in the paint like Perk who will give him the freedom and protection to drive to the hoop.

That is NOT this team. This Celtics crew is lacking in good outside half court shooting. There is no enforcer inside. There's not even a great pick-and-roll specialist. So even if Rondo wanted to come back, he doesn't fit anymore. It's quite likely he would be a negative asset to this team simply based on the system that the rest of the team needs to execute to succeed. That's the crux of the matter. Strictly from a basketball standpoint Rondo doesn't make any sense.

NOW add in the cost of his salary, the opportunity cost of not getting another player for that salary amount, the fact that our single best young asset plays the same position and the risk of similar locker room problems that transpired in Dallas. That's not hate, those are simply facts. In short, there's almost zero chance of a Rondo return being a net positive impact for the Celtics and a major chance of it having a negative impact in multiple ways.

The dramatic increase in winning percentage happened long after the Rondo trade when we were playing mostly weaker East teams at the end of season.   We had an absolutely brutal November schedule.  When Rondo was traded, we were 9-14 but 13 of those games were against eventual playoff teams. 

Bringing Rondo back doesn't make much sense with the team as currently constituted.  That's why I'd love for it to happen.  It would mean that Ainge had made some major moves to acquire star talent and was ready to compete for championships.

Bringing Rondo back makes NO SENSE regardless of how the team is constituted.  Rondo WAS a great passer in the day but he's NOT now.   He has more weaknesses than strengths now and would do nothing but be a pain in the a$$ for Stevens.  No thanks.

Rondo averaged 10.8 asts and 7.5 rebs in the 22 games before he was traded.  He is still a great passer and still has great court vision.  What problems did Rondo cause for Stevens when he was here?  Rondo tried to fit into Stevens' system and Stevens gave Rondo enough leeway running the offense.     

Unfortunately, he has no offensive ability other than being able to pass the ball.  You think his inability to shoot the ball or hit a free throw or his unwillingness to play defense was helpful to Stevens?!?!  He was a problem in Dallas, a problem for Doc, but not a problem for Stevens?!!  Come on now...reality is calling.

We had Bradley and Smart to be the primary guard defenders.  There were times Rondo was stuck guarding SFs that were several inches taller and 20 or 30 pounds heavier.  In Dallas, Rondo primary guard defender and did pretty well at times.  His shooting improved too.  The problems occurred because Carlisle didn't give Rondo much leeway to run the offense.  Rondo should have handled it better but Carlisle should have too.  I expect Rondo to go to a team and coach that fits him better and bounce back.

I'm not buying your Rondo excuses but I honestly hope he has a bounce back season even though I think there's a better chance of Fab Melo joining Dancing with the Stars.

[LilRip]

Rondo averaged 10.8 asts and 7.5 rebs in the 22 games before he was traded.  He is still a great passer and still has great court vision.  What problems did Rondo cause for Stevens when he was here?  Rondo tried to fit into Stevens' system and Stevens gave Rondo enough leeway running the offense.     

With 8.3 points per game, 3.4 turnovers per game, a horrific eFG of .429, a laughable .333 FT percentage, a -6 difference between his ORtg and DRtg, by his own admission wasn't playing defense hard and was barely better than a replacement level player. By every single measurement the team has played better with him off the court than on and that's been true of the last two or three years, not just in 22 games last year. Are there any other cherry-picked statistics you want to throw out? Because for every positive one you can toss out there, there are about 3 negative ones.

This. TP

[tazzmaniac]

A few points:

1. The Rondo hate is pretty nuts. He won us a lot of games. A simple, "I don't think he will come back" I can understand but some of these comments make me a little sad as a fan.

2. WAs he hurt this year in Dallas? I would like to know the full story of why he wasn't playing at the end.

3. Its all about money. I think if Ainge had said, "**** it, i'll just give him the max" he would still be here. Ainge was right not to. But if someone gets him for under 10 mil a year and he bounces back he will be on a good deal. I just have this bad feeling that next year or the year after he could again be a top pg and on a really friendly deal somewhere.

4. Its hard to say that our improvement after RR left was due to rondo sucking. I mean, we wee sucking as a team and when Rondo was traded it was kind of a rallying call for the rest of the team to step up. It reminds me of when Pitino left and we played better. Although I guess I'm making the opposite of the point I want because I really like Rondo and really don't like Pitino.

5. A lot of things would have to happen to make a Rondo return make sense. But I do hope Ainge reaches out to him. Even though he hasn't played amazing lately I still think he has a super competitive mentality and he's not someone I would ever bet against. He was getting like 13 dimes a game for us. Say what ever you want but almost no one else could do that.

on your first point, as i read this thread i dont see a unified, monolithic "hate" being leveled at rondo. i see lots of viewpoints, including appreciation for what he DID before as a celtic. let's not set up a strawfigure.

next point, maybe you could check back on the not playing in dallas stories on the web. it is complex story and no one here would know the full story. but from what i read, carlisle and rondo did not see eye to eye (quite the understatement.) rondo wants to run a team his way, which i can understand. but carlisle also wants to run a team, and do it his way as the coach. in this setting, rondo loses. rondo competed against his coach, and he lost since he is not a superstar.

plus, let's face it, rondo's stats and dallas' w/l record were not as good as before rondo's arrival. something was happening that was not good in the world of dallas basketball.

injury? i see no reason to doubt that was a factor. have you heard anything else on this? if so, please share it.

third point, you mention rondo might become a top pg next year. maybe. but NOT on any and all teams. a point made in this thread, and it is a good point, is that rondo's strengths and style do NOT PLAY OUT EQUALLY WELL ON ALL NBA TEAMS. rondo MUST have the ball in his hand to do well since he cant shoot reliably. such a player will not fit equally well on every nba team. simple enough.

for the CBS run celtics, rondo's style is NOT what is needed or appropriate. so i hope rondo bounces back. but it will have to be with a team whose offense and plays are not like those of the celtics. meaning, rondo cant bounce back with the celtics. this is the wrong place for his talents now. he was a good fit before with doc and the big 3, but a bad fit now.

point four, right. no one can prove the departure of rondo = more celtics wins. we can only make the observation that the celtics won more games after he left. to be honest, i thought the celtics passed the ball as a team far better without rondo. did this lead to wins? dont know. would the celtics have won more games if rondo had stayed? dont know that either. but we can all guess.

point five, here i disagree with you, though i acknowledge your point and intentions. rondo is not a good fit for this celtics team. ainge should not reach out to him. ainge should thank him and move on to build a different sort of team.

finally point, or question to you, by me. given that rondo plays one sort of basketball game as a ball dominant pg who doesnt shoot well, which teams today in the nba do you think would benefit from having him on board? those are the teams rondo should seek out to revive his career, which is honestly suffering right now.

/agree with all your points.

But I think the last one is the most important - everything else is just a sidebar. The real question is "can Rondo make this team better?". I think the answer to that is most likely no and that was shown by the dramatic increase in the winning percentage once he and Green were traded.

Rondo, even at his best, is a talent who requires a particular scenario to be effective. Simply put, he needs shooters. He needs guys like PP and Ray Allen who can pour in the points in half court sets. He needs vets like KG who can work off the pick and roll. He needs an enforcer in the paint like Perk who will give him the freedom and protection to drive to the hoop.

That is NOT this team. This Celtics crew is lacking in good outside half court shooting. There is no enforcer inside. There's not even a great pick-and-roll specialist. So even if Rondo wanted to come back, he doesn't fit anymore. It's quite likely he would be a negative asset to this team simply based on the system that the rest of the team needs to execute to succeed. That's the crux of the matter. Strictly from a basketball standpoint Rondo doesn't make any sense.

NOW add in the cost of his salary, the opportunity cost of not getting another player for that salary amount, the fact that our single best young asset plays the same position and the risk of similar locker room problems that transpired in Dallas. That's not hate, those are simply facts. In short, there's almost zero chance of a Rondo return being a net positive impact for the Celtics and a major chance of it having a negative impact in multiple ways.

The dramatic increase in winning percentage happened long after the Rondo trade when we were playing mostly weaker East teams at the end of season.   We had an absolutely brutal November schedule.  When Rondo was traded, we were 9-14 but 13 of those games were against eventual playoff teams. 

Bringing Rondo back doesn't make much sense with the team as currently constituted.  That's why I'd love for it to happen.  It would mean that Ainge had made some major moves to acquire star talent and was ready to compete for championships.

Bringing Rondo back makes NO SENSE regardless of how the team is constituted.  Rondo WAS a great passer in the day but he's NOT now.   He has more weaknesses than strengths now and would do nothing but be a pain in the a$$ for Stevens.  No thanks.

Rondo averaged 10.8 asts and 7.5 rebs in the 22 games before he was traded.  He is still a great passer and still has great court vision.  What problems did Rondo cause for Stevens when he was here?  Rondo tried to fit into Stevens' system and Stevens gave Rondo enough leeway running the offense.     

Unfortunately, he has no offensive ability other than being able to pass the ball.  You think his inability to shoot the ball or hit a free throw or his unwillingness to play defense was helpful to Stevens?!?!  He was a problem in Dallas, a problem for Doc, but not a problem for Stevens?!!  Come on now...reality is calling.

We had Bradley and Smart to be the primary guard defenders.  There were times Rondo was stuck guarding SFs that were several inches taller and 20 or 30 pounds heavier.  In Dallas, Rondo primary guard defender and did pretty well at times.  His shooting improved too.  The problems occurred because Carlisle didn't give Rondo much leeway to run the offense.  Rondo should have handled it better but Carlisle should have too.  I expect Rondo to go to a team and coach that fits him better and bounce back.

I'm not buying your Rondo excuses but I honestly hope he has a bounce back season even though I think there's a better chance of Fab Melo joining Dancing with the Stars.

Fab Melo on Dancing with the Stars really ought to happen.  He could be in a musical chairs number with inevitable results.   

[makaveli]

There's a better chance he plays in China next season than for either Boston or Dallas.

[SHAQATTACK]

There's a better chance he plays in China next season than for either Boston or Dallas.

Rondo get used to eating fried lice

[GreenFaith1819]

There's a better chance he plays in China next season than for either Boston or Dallas.

Rondo get used to eating fried lice

I think the hardest thing for me is seeing a Celtics Great disrespected like this.

Rajon Rondo was - at times - our best player from 2009-2012.

He deserves better, regardless of his mistakes/shortcomings.

The supposed best PG in the game let his team lose THREE games in a row vs HOU - and he gets a free pass.

Because he can shoot?

Some folks' mentality on here is warped.

[Celtics4ever]

Nope, no chance.

[saynomore]

Respect the past?  Personally I have said that Rondo was one of the best passers I have ever seen and he was an important piece of Banner 17.  Unfortunately, for whatever reason (injury, age, etc), he is not the same player on the court.  However, based on what happened in Dallas, he is still a stubborn hammerhead.  Even if he had the same skills he had in 2008, I still think he would be a bad fit for this team. 
In any event, saying he's toast is just an opinion.  I'm not going to say he's great and would love to bring him back if I don't feel that way.

I said what it's totally fine if you or anyone else here don't want him back anymore for whatever reason. BUT saying what he's a garbage/team cancer and something like what is rude and disrespectful when it comes about a player who used to play solid years in this organization and especially, when you guys rooting and loved him in the past while he was playing hard (or even if you didn't liked him). He didn't anything wrong here, what happened in Dallas stays in Dallas.

[Rosco917]

Can't believe we're at this again....

We're not talking the Rondo of 2011 or 2012. 

The Rondo of today is an easy player to make adjustments for during the regular season and the playoffs. The league knows he can't hit the outside shot consistently, they also know he can't hit free throws at any rate that is consistent with a professional basketball player, of late, he avoids going to the rim. Once known as a good defender, he now feels defense is for others.

He has a caustic, acidic personality, that will not allow him to play well with others...including coaches.
No we don't want the Rondo of 2015 causing trouble, confusion, and resentment on this young team.

Thanks for the memories, but no thanks.

 

[CoachBo]

Can't believe we're at this again....

We're not talking the Rondo of 2011 or 2012. 

The Rondo of today is an easy player to make adjustments for during the regular season and the playoffs. The league knows he can't hit the outside shot consistently, they also know he can't hit free throws at any rate that is consistent with a professional basketball player, of late, he avoids going to the rim. Once known as a good defender, he now feels defense is for others.

He has a caustic, acidic personality, that will not allow him to play well with others...including coaches.
No we don't want the Rondo of 2015 causing trouble, confusion, and resentment on this young team.

Thanks for the memories, but no thanks.

Exactly. That ship has sailed - thank God - and those who obsess endlessly over a player with a limited skill set need to move on. It's over, and the Celtics are better for it.

[34truth]

There's a better chance he plays in China next season than for either Boston or Dallas.

Rondo get used to eating fried lice

I think the hardest thing for me is seeing a Celtics Great disrespected like this.

Rajon Rondo was - at times - our best player from 2009-2012.

He deserves better, regardless of his mistakes/shortcomings.

The supposed best PG in the game let his team lose THREE games in a row vs HOU - and he gets a free pass.

Because he can shoot?

Some folks' mentality on here is warped.

supposed best pg in the league is in the nba finals. Youre talking about that paul guy who still is way better than rondo btw

[34truth]

Rondo is limited as hell man. Needs the EXACT right scheme in order to succeed. Can't flourish whithin the flow of the offense anymore.. he used to be a different player when he came out, would pace the game and stuff, then the bad habits completely took over