Sully and Isaiah Thomas are dissatisfied with All-Defensive teams.

[Rondo9]

John Wall is the best defensive PG in basketball. Disgrace that he wasn't All-Defensive First Team.

I'm beginning to believe that Chris Paul is an overrated defender.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

They come off as mentally weak cry babies to me.
The fact is all off those guys selected made their teams have substantially better records than the Celtics.
Granted the Celtics had a nice second half of the season, but those guys contributed to far greater success than either Bradley or Smart over the course of the WHOLE season.

We are talking individually, did all those guys have a bigger defensive impact for their teams than AB and Smart? All those players who are guards have good to excellent interior defenders to help them out. I keep saying, if our guards didn't have to defend as hard as they do they would have more energy to be even better. They waste energy by doing things at times that a big should step up and handle for them. They have much less room for error. You can do the right thing on defense but where are the stats that say your big or someone else was suppose to step up and stop the play?

AB wasn't great b/c KG was great, AB was allowed to just do his job b/c he knew he didn't have to/couldn't be perfect against some of the best players in the game (PG position is STACKED). He had someone behind him who could pick up when he was suppose to, someone who could help for the given "mistakes" the best defenders still make! 


If we are lucky to get a very good interior defender, people will not want to face Smart and AB, even less than they do now.


Heck, KG is broken down and old and I bet he could have still helped our defense.

[GC003332]

They come off as mentally weak cry babies to me.
The fact is all off those guys selected made their teams have substantially better records than the Celtics.
Granted the Celtics had a nice second half of the season, but those guys contributed to far greater success than either Bradley or Smart over the course of the WHOLE season.

We are talking individually, did all those guys have a bigger defensive impact for their teams than AB and Smart? All those players who are guards have good to excellent interior defenders to help them out. I keep saying, if our guards didn't have to defend as hard as they do they would have more energy to be even better. They waste energy by doing things at times that a big should step up and handle for them. They have much less room for error. You can do the right thing on defense but where are the stats that say your big or someone else was suppose to step up and stop the play?

AB wasn't great b/c KG was great, AB was allowed to just do his job b/c he knew he didn't have to/couldn't be perfect against some of the best players in the game (PG position is STACKED). He had someone behind him who could pick up when he was suppose to, someone who could help for the given "mistakes" the best defenders still make! 


If we are lucky to get a very good interior defender, people will not want to face Smart and AB, even less than they do now.


Heck, KG is broken down and old and I bet he could have still helped our defense.

I love how Avery and Marcus get after it, it was no fluke that the Celtics went on their run after Marcus was inserted into the starting lineup.24-11 with him starting at the end of the year.
But most of those guys have built up a reputation over a longer period of time.
Is it fair, of course not.
Hopefully the Celtics do pair up better defensive center with Avery and Marcus , the Celtics would be looking at a top 5 defensive unit in that case.
Once that is the case it will build a stronger case for the national media to give them more votes.

[mr. dee]

John Wall is the best defensive PG in basketball. Disgrace that he wasn't All-Defensive First Team.

I'm beginning to believe that Chris Paul is an overrated player.

Fixed. Can't get past 2nd round. I wish people would stop talking about him being the best PG in the league.

[Ilikesports17]

As others have touched on AB is a great on ball defender but our bigs dont offer much in terms of calling out the pick and roll, hedging, switching, or anything else regarding the pick and roll. they are also not rim protecters.

AB is a tremendous on ball defender but teams run pick after pick into him and  a lot of times it leads to an open shot. I think with a Deandre Jordan or a WCS, AB would appear to be a much better defender.

Also, these are based on reputation. AB had a bad year defensively from post all star break last year to the break this year. I wouldnt be surprised to see him on the team next year if he stays with us. As his defensive rep is growing.

[crimson_stallion]

If you haven't seen it yet, the All defense teams were announced today;
NBA All-Defensive First Team: Kawhi Leonard, Draymond Green, Tony Allen, DeAndre Jordan, Chris Paul
NBA All-Defensive Second Team: Anthony Davis, Jimmy Butler, Andrew Bogut, John Wall, Tim Duncan

It turns out that Sully and Isaiah were both disappointed as Avery didn't make either of the teams:
Isaiah

Isaiah Thomas: Avery Bradley Not 1st or 2nd team all defense? They gotta start letting the players choose these awards smh

Isaiah Thomas: At the end of the day PLAYERS know who deserves all the awards... We need to give players some type of chance to vote!

Sully

Jared Sullinger: Hahahahaha so Avery Bradley doesn't make 1st or 2nd team all defense!!!! What a joke man!!! Are you guys watching what I am watching?

Jared Sullinger: I need a analytical stat of Avery Bradley defense please

Marcus Smart didn't get many votes either;

Brian Robb: Avery Bradley did not make All-Defense team, but received 26 overall points with 5 first team votes. Marcus Smart got 2 second team votes. Twitter @CelticsHub

Do you guys think that Marcus or Avery should have been voted in?
In my personal opinion both Marcus and Avery are better defensively than John Wall and Chris Paul, but these "All-(Insert category here) teams" are often popularity contests, hence that our guys weren't included

John Wall is a fair pick - his Defensive Real Plus Minus of +1.73 ranked him third among all Point Guards, behind only Ricky Rubio (what?!?!) and Eric Bledsoe. 

Wow, I hadn't realised that Wall had come such a long way defensively!

Paul however was clearly a popularity choice.  I love Paul as a player and honestly consider him a top 3 or 4 PG to ever play the game, but his DRPM this year was +0.5 which only ranked him 13th among Point Guards.

Stephen Curry, Kyle Lowry, Marcus Smart, Jeff Teague, Cory Joseph, Efrid Payton and Michael-Carter Williams rounded out the top 10.

Avery Bradley technically only finished one spot above Paul (12th versus 13th) but if you look at the numbers there was a pretty big drop off from Bradley to CP3:

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM/position/1

Chris Paul's defense definitely used to be elite (he ranked 4th among PG's last year, with an excellent +1.95) but it clearly dropped off quite a bit this season.

Bradley actually dropped off a fair bit as well.  His +1.22 rating was good for 6th last year, but he dropped to +0.73 and 12th this year.

Could have something to do with the fact that Boston's defense as a team was much better (with Smart out there) and so they didn't lose as much when Bradley sat down.

[Rosco917]

Avery's defense is solid, though it hasn't been as good since he started taking more shots.

I don't see anybody on either All-Defensive team that deserved it less than Bradley or Smart.

I'm fine with 3 bigs on the second team, too.  Big men make a much larger impact on defense.  That's Bradley's biggest problem.  He's too small to make a big impact defensively, especially considering he plays SG but is best at defending point guards.

Most of the other players on those lists have the ability to cover multiple positions.

This^
plus the Celtics, at this point aren't really a star filled roster, they're really not considered a contender, they don't really have league "weight" yet.

[Beat LA]

I can't believe that no one has mentioned this, yet, so I'll say it.  This is clearly the most I've ever seen Sully or Thomas, but especially Sully, care about defense, lol .

[mgent]

In the NBA's defense, they are all really good defenders. It wasn't like last year where Patrick Beverley was chosen over Tony Allen.

This.  Completely this.

But I'm seriously thinking the same thing as the OP right now.  John Wall and Chris freakin' Paul?

At the same time I'm one of those guys who liked Smart's defense better than Avery's this year.  AB's pressure is bar none, but Smart's much better at fighting through screens, which in my opinion puts him closer to a TA-level stopper than AB.  I'm also willing to say I think MS is a smarter defender than Bradley, at least in terms of knowing when to apply the pressure (he's not caught overplaying nearly as often).

[mgent]

John Wall is the best defensive PG in basketball. Disgrace that he wasn't All-Defensive First Team.

I'm beginning to believe that Chris Paul is an overrated defender.

Thought this since his first year in the league.  Dude would rather camp in the passing lanes than play actual defense, simply because he knows the spg will fool people.

Just like Who said, he's voted in for no other reason than reputation.  Kind of like how Kobe kept winning 1st team in his later years.

CP3 is no where near George Hill as a defender the past few years.

[LilRip]

people (on this board) are sleeping on John Wall.

Anyway, I think AB deserves to be there, perhaps on the 2nd team. But then again, maybe so does Danny Green. And maybe so do a bunch of other people on teams I don't follow as closely (Horford maybe?)

I look forward to the day that Smart and AB are headlining these All-Defensive teams.

[Beat LA]

John Wall is the best defensive PG in basketball. Disgrace that he wasn't All-Defensive First Team.

I'm beginning to believe that Chris Paul is an overrated defender.

Thought this since his first year in the league.  Dude would rather camp in the passing lanes than play actual defense, simply because he knows the spg will fool people.

Just like Who said, he's voted in for no other reason than reputation.  Kind of like how Kobe kept winning 1st team in his later years.

CP3 is no where near George Hill as a defender the past few years.

George Hill?  Really?  While he obviously has the physical makeup to be an excellent defender with those long arms, he always seemed like the weak link, defensively, every time I saw him play.  There were games where he'd get torched by Mario Chalmers (who's an excellent player, but still - come on), lol , never mind Rose, Westbrook, Rondo, Parker, Wall, Curry, and Teague etc.  Have I just been watching the wrong games, haha ? It's not that he's a bad player, but he's really only suited to be a 3rd guard (and a great one, at that I might add) on a contender, imo, because he's not a point guard.  He's be an excellent fit for the triangle, though.  To me, Indiana's best point guard, especially defensively, over the last two years, was CJ Watson. 

[crimson_stallion]

It's interesting to look at some of these guys numbers and see who's improving / declining defensively.

John Wall in 2013-14 had a DRPM of -0.44 which was only good for 26th among all PG's.  This year he improved to +1.73 and jumped to 3rd spot.  That has got tone be among one of the greatest defensive improvements I've ever seen.  When you combine that with his offensive improvements (averaging 10+ APG) that immediately catapults him among the top 2 or 3 Point Guards in the NBA i think.

On the other hand Marc Gasol in 2013-14 ranked first among centers (and 4th in the entire league) with a DRPM of +5.23 - but then this season his DRPM of +1.92 ranks him only 19th among centers and only 4 spots above Kelly Olynyk.

Speaking of Olynyk, in 2013-14 he had a DRPM of -1.71 which ranked him 62nd (4th last) among all NBA Centers.  This year he's literally flipped that around with a +1.71 that ranks him 23rd in the league - that is an amazing improvement for a guy with such limited physical tools in only his second season.  Wow!

Some other results:
* Zeller has stayed the same essentially going form 1.49 (33rd) to +1.37 (32nd).
* Sully has gotten much worse, dropping from +1.58 (23rd) to +0.16 (53rd)
* Crowder has gotten worse, dropping from +1.81 (13th) to -1.07 (52nd) this season
* Turner has improved modestly, from -1.28 (46th) to -0.27 (32nd)
* Bass slightly improved, from -0.43 (55th) to -0.19 (60th)
* Phil Pressey stayed similar, from -1.17 (35th) to
* Bradley, as mentioned, has dropped from +1.22 (6th) to +0.73 (12th)
* Isaiah Thomas has droppd from -1.62 (42nd) to -2.67 (67th)

Just for fun, the 5 best at each position...

Point Guard
1st: Ricky Rubio (+2.33)
2nd: Eric Bledsoe (+1.86)
3rd: John Wall (+1.73)
4th: Stephen Curry (+1.69)
5th: Kyle Lowry (+1.25)
Honourable mention: Marcus Smart (+1.07, 6th - big contrast to Wiggins)

Shooting Guard
1st: Khris Middleton (+4.10) - wow!
2nd: Nick Calathes (+3.75)
3rd: Elijah Millsap (+3.42)
4th: Andre Roberson (+3.30)
5th: Wesley Matthews (+2.27)
Honourable mention: Kyle Korver (+1.38, 10th - totally unexpected)

Small Forward
1st: Draymond Green (+5.24)
2nd: Tony Allen (+4.94)
3rd: Kawhi Leonard (+4.60)
4th: Michael Kidd-Gilchrist (+3.63)
5th: Thabo Sefolosha (+2.92)
Honourable mention: Gordon Hayward (+1.20, 14th - didn't expect him to be this solid)

Power Forward
1st: Tim Duncan (+4.69)
2nd: Anthony Davis (+4.20)
3rd: Darrell Arthur (+3.92)
4th: Serge Ibaka (+3.52)
5th: Cody Zeller (+3.23)
Honourable mention: Kevin Garnett (+2.31, 10th - still gettin' it done!)

Center
1st: Andrew Bogut (+5.50)
2nd: DeMarcus Cousins (+4.71)
3rd: Jusaf Nurkic (+4.00)
4th: Rudy Gobert (+3.62)
5th: Tyson Chandler (+3.55)
Honourable mention: Nerlens Noel (+3.36, 7th - lot of upside here)


The 5 worst at each position:

Point Guard
80th: Alex Shved (-2.97)
81st: Jordan Clarkson (-3.01)
82nd: D.J. Augustin (-3.23)
83rd: Tony Parker (-3.32)
84th: Zach Levine (-4.35)
Dis-Honourable mention: James Young (-2.06, 80th)

Shooting Guard
97th: Joe Harris (-3.49)
98th: Tony Wroten (-3.85)
99th: Bojan Bogdanovic (-3.91)
100th: Jamal Crawford (-4.15)
101st: Jabari Brown (-4.23)
Dis-Honourable mention: James Young (-2.06, 80th)

Small Forward
82nd: Jabari Parker (-2.65)
83rd: Martell Webster (-2.89)
84th: Marco Belinelli (-3.12)
85th: James Jones (-3.36)
86th: Terrence Ross (-3.77)
Dis-Honourable Mention: Rudy Gay (-2.46, 80th)
[Wiggins, Jeff Green, Carmelo Anthony all -2.00 or worse)
 
Power Forward
91st: Adreian Payne (-3.09)
92nd: Anthony Bennett (-3.23)
93rd: Jason Smith (-3.36)
94th: Ryan Anderson (-3.78)
95th: Derrick Williams (-4.58)
Dis-Honourable mention: Dirk Nowitzki (-1.89, 85th)

Center
69th: Jordan Hill (-1.41)
70th: Marreese Spreights (-1.51)
71st: Matt Bonner (-2.51)
72nd: Andrea Bargnani (-3.56)
73rd: Enes Kanter (-3.88)
Dis-Honourable mention: Anderson Varejao (-0.57, 61st)

Sadly Isaiah Thomas is statistically the 34th worst defensive-impact player in the NBA with a rank of 441/474, and by far the worst defensive player on this Celtics roster.  Fortunately for him he's also statistically he 12th best offensive-impact player (+4.10) which means his net impact is still positive.

[crimson_stallion]

CP3 is no where near George Hill as a defender the past few years.

The stats would suggest otherwise, with CP3 ranking top 15 among PG's while Hill barely made the top 40.

[Denis998]

It's interesting to look at some of these guys numbers and see who's improving / declining defensively.

John Wall in 2013-14 had a DRPM of -0.44 which was only good for 26th among all PG's.  This year he improved to +1.73 and jumped to 3rd spot.  That has got tone be among one of the greatest defensive improvements I've ever seen.  When you combine that with his offensive improvements (averaging 10+ APG) that immediately catapults him among the top 2 or 3 Point Guards in the NBA i think.

On the other hand Marc Gasol in 2013-14 ranked first among centers (and 4th in the entire league) with a DRPM of +5.23 - but then this season his DRPM of +1.92 ranks him only 19th among centers and only 4 spots above Kelly Olynyk.

Speaking of Olynyk, in 2013-14 he had a DRPM of -1.71 which ranked him 62nd (4th last) among all NBA Centers.  This year he's literally flipped that around with a +1.71 that ranks him 23rd in the league - that is an amazing improvement for a guy with such limited physical tools in only his second season.  Wow!

Some other results:
* Zeller has stayed the same essentially going form 1.49 (33rd) to +1.37 (32nd).
* Sully has gotten much worse, dropping from +1.58 (23rd) to +0.16 (53rd)
* Crowder has gotten worse, dropping from +1.81 (13th) to -1.07 (52nd) this season
* Turner has improved modestly, from -1.28 (46th) to -0.27 (32nd)
* Bass slightly improved, from -0.43 (55th) to -0.19 (60th)
* Phil Pressey stayed similar, from -1.17 (35th) to
* Bradley, as mentioned, has dropped from +1.22 (6th) to +0.73 (12th)
* Isaiah Thomas has droppd from -1.62 (42nd) to -2.67 (67th)

Just for fun, the 5 best at each position...

Point Guard
1st: Ricky Rubio (+2.33)
2nd: Eric Bledsoe (+1.86)
3rd: John Wall (+1.73)
4th: Stephen Curry (+1.69)
5th: Kyle Lowry (+1.25)
Honourable mention: Marcus Smart (+1.07, 6th - big contrast to Wiggins)

Shooting Guard
1st: Khris Middleton (+4.10) - wow!
2nd: Nick Calathes (+3.75)
3rd: Elijah Millsap (+3.42)
4th: Andre Roberson (+3.30)
5th: Wesley Matthews (+2.27)
Honourable mention: Kyle Korver (+1.38, 10th - totally unexpected)

Small Forward
1st: Draymond Green (+5.24)
2nd: Tony Allen (+4.94)
3rd: Kawhi Leonard (+4.60)
4th: Michael Kidd-Gilchrist (+3.63)
5th: Thabo Sefolosha (+2.92)
Honourable mention: Gordon Hayward (+1.20, 14th - didn't expect him to be this solid)

Power Forward
1st: Tim Duncan (+4.69)
2nd: Anthony Davis (+4.20)
3rd: Darrell Arthur (+3.92)
4th: Serge Ibaka (+3.52)
5th: Cody Zeller (+3.23)
Honourable mention: Kevin Garnett (+2.31, 10th - still gettin' it done!)

Center
1st: Andrew Bogut (+5.50)
2nd: DeMarcus Cousins (+4.71)
3rd: Jusaf Nurkic (+4.00)
4th: Rudy Gobert (+3.62)
5th: Tyson Chandler (+3.55)
Honourable mention: Nerlens Noel (+3.36, 7th - lot of upside here)


The 5 worst at each position:

Point Guard
80th: Alex Shved (-2.97)
81st: Jordan Clarkson (-3.01)
82nd: D.J. Augustin (-3.23)
83rd: Tony Parker (-3.32)
84th: Zach Levine (-4.35)
Dis-Honourable mention: James Young (-2.06, 80th)

Shooting Guard
97th: Joe Harris (-3.49)
98th: Tony Wroten (-3.85)
99th: Bojan Bogdanovic (-3.91)
100th: Jamal Crawford (-4.15)
101st: Jabari Brown (-4.23)
Dis-Honourable mention: James Young (-2.06, 80th)

Small Forward
82nd: Jabari Parker (-2.65)
83rd: Martell Webster (-2.89)
84th: Marco Belinelli (-3.12)
85th: James Jones (-3.36)
86th: Terrence Ross (-3.77)
Dis-Honourable Mention: Rudy Gay (-2.46, 80th)
[Wiggins, Jeff Green, Carmelo Anthony all -2.00 or worse)
 
Power Forward
91st: Adreian Payne (-3.09)
92nd: Anthony Bennett (-3.23)
93rd: Jason Smith (-3.36)
94th: Ryan Anderson (-3.78)
95th: Derrick Williams (-4.58)
Dis-Honourable mention: Dirk Nowitzki (-1.89, 85th)

Center
69th: Jordan Hill (-1.41)
70th: Marreese Spreights (-1.51)
71st: Matt Bonner (-2.51)
72nd: Andrea Bargnani (-3.56)
73rd: Enes Kanter (-3.88)
Dis-Honourable mention: Anderson Varejao (-0.57, 61st)

Sadly Isaiah Thomas is statistically the 34th worst defensive-impact player in the NBA with a rank of 441/474, and by far the worst defensive player on this Celtics roster.  Fortunately for him he's also statistically he 12th best offensive-impact player (+4.10) which means his net impact is still positive.

intersting read, what site did you use to get those stats?