Author Topic: We have to be patient  (Read 6165 times)

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We have to be patient
« on: May 19, 2015, 04:47:06 PM »

Offline Maurice98

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We need to be patient about our guys (Smart & Young) and our potential new rookies. I think it will be crucial and I bet DA knew that these guys would take time to develop even though Smart is more ready. These guys' upsides are huge and our future is bright.

Smart is s guy that showed me what's like to be a Celtic. He is huge for a guard(similar build to Dwade) He adapted to the system very quickly and he is one of the toughest players guards in the league. Defensively, just WOW! Gary Payton of this generation. This kid is so versatile and understands how to defend in different ways like a vet. He can defend from PGs to some SFs. Just ask Harden. The combination of quickness, strength, athleticism and long arms allows him to play defense amazingly. Also, he takes pride and works so hard on D.

Offensively, his role was to be a 3 & D player with some PG skills so his role was limited and ET was responsible for that. He improved his shot this season and I expect him to improve it. Same for his ball handling even though he's decent already. He is a very good passer and good at drive and kicks. But, next year I want him to drive more because he's too big to not go to the FT line often and he ain't that slow however he showed us during the end of the season and playoffs that he was attacking the paint more. He is good at posting up so I expect Stevens to have more plays for him in the post.

Young instead he's still a project. He's got excellent size, length and above average athleticism for a wing but the problem would be work ethic. If he works hard, the sky is the limit for him. His stroke is beautiful to watch and he's so crafty as well which reminds me of Harden with worse passing skills. In the D League, he played very good for the Maine Red Claws (22/5/2/1.5 with 46/44/76 statline) and he showed us that his too good for that league. I saw the playoffs matches in the D League and I saw that JY has improved in many areas like D, I saw him displaying decent ball handling skills involving Pick and Rolls and ISOs, he improved his passing skills and rebound skills. His defense definitively must improve to play in the NBA and he's got outstanding tools on that end so the problem would be more about focusing on D. Also, to play some minutes next season, he must bulk up so basically add 15-20 pounds more into training camp.

I really like his potential and I think he will be a very good player for us down the stretch. This kid has the "it" factor as he showed us in the NCAA Finals Tournament and I think he will be a a very good all-around in the NBA. Same for Smart. I am actually so excited for the Summer League as I expect both Jame and Marcus to be dominant.

Just want to say that if we are patient, we will see great players playing for us in the future and I don't want to see the same mistake in trading unproven players too early (Johnson and Billups) and see them blossom into All Stars with another team

Re: We have to be patient
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2015, 05:04:08 PM »

Offline Monkhouse

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Oh yeah, definitely of course, especially with young prospects. No one really expects Smart/Young to win ROY, but at least show some glimpse of talent. Smart did with his defense, and hustle on the court, while Young flashed smooth 3 point stroke in D-Leagues.

We need to give these two some time, and try to see what talent/picks come our way.
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Re: We have to be patient
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2015, 05:13:41 PM »

Offline Maurice98

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Oh yeah, definitely of course, especially with young prospects. No one really expects Smart/Young to win ROY, but at least show some glimpse of talent. Smart did with his defense, and hustle on the court, while Young flashed smooth 3 point stroke in D-Leagues.

We need to give these two some time, and try to see what talent/picks come our way.

True man. You actually one of the few that doesn't think that neither Young nor Smart is a bust

Re: We have to be patient
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2015, 05:22:24 PM »

Offline LGC88

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Actually plenty of fans have faith in Smart and Young. But I think most of them get tired to answer the haters, haha.
As for me, I will repeat again. Smart is the real deal. All star potential at the minimum, as I see it. I don't see any weakness (he hasn't get a scoring role yet, they will work on that this summer I'm sure). Young has a very high ceiling to me as a scorer. If he matures the right way, he will have a breakout year that might surprise most of us.
So as the OP said, we have to be patient... and enjoy to see how those 2 develop.
I haven't give up on Sully & KO either yet. They are both 1 issue away from having a breakout year.

Re: We have to be patient
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2015, 05:37:13 PM »

Offline cltc5

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Actually plenty of fans have faith in Smart and Young. But I think most of them get tired to answer the haters, haha.
As for me, I will repeat again. Smart is the real deal. All star potential at the minimum, as I see it. I don't see any weakness (he hasn't get a scoring role yet, they will work on that this summer I'm sure). Young has a very high ceiling to me as a scorer. If he matures the right way, he will have a breakout year that might surprise most of us.
So as the OP said, we have to be patient... and enjoy to see how those 2 develop.
I haven't give up on Sully & KO either yet. They are both 1 issue away from having a breakout year.

Agreed.  This year will be very telling.  We have a taste if thenplayoffs and are used to fighting games out.  We should be better all around.  Add some young hungry kids or some star caliber vets and we're looking at an easy middle of the conference year. And people that can't see what Marcus smart can be are either clueless or just hate for the sake of it????.

Re: We have to be patient
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2015, 06:09:42 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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Oh yeah, definitely of course, especially with young prospects. No one really expects Smart/Young to win ROY, but at least show some glimpse of talent. Smart did with his defense, and hustle on the court, while Young flashed smooth 3 point stroke in D-Leagues.

We need to give these two some time, and try to see what talent/picks come our way.

True man. You actually one of the few that doesn't think that neither Young nor Smart is a bust

I read here pretty regularly and really can't recall references to Smart as a bust, and I suspect there are very few who think James Young is a bust.   I actually think that most posters here are very willing to be patient with the development of Smart and Young.  There are some who have stated that Smart is the only Celtic who could return a star in a trade.  I think most would be upset if Young were traded for anything less than a top 10 in this year's draft.   

I agree, these two have by far the best upside of any Celtics.

Re: We have to be patient
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2015, 06:20:12 PM »

Offline Future Celtics Owner

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James Young is actually very athletic.

Anyways I love the rebuilding mode. And for me I want to trade Avery and Evan Turner to get a draft pick in the 10-whatever range that gets us Myles Turner and etc. Then I want to use the 16 on Upshaw.

Next years draft is filled with potential star sf's. My favorite is Brandan InGram. He's real quick, watch the vid, and has a smooth game. He has a 7'3'' wingspan, 9'1'5'' standing reach and he's 6'10'' w/ shoes. But biggest thing is he is still just 17 and does not turn 18 for 3-4 months.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0k46dtm_7Q


A young core of:
Marcus Smart
James Young
Brandon Ingram
Myles Turner
Robert Upshaw

plus any FA and other draft picks/trades

Re: We have to be patient
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2015, 06:56:22 PM »

Offline Rosco917

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Unfortunately patients is a foreign concept to many.

We want to win now!...we want stars now! We need to buy green shirts with players names on the back... now! I want a championship tattoo someplace on my body, now!

The fact is, some Celtic fans got spoiled by the championship of 08. We went from a team with no hope to a championship in a single year. What a freeking ride! I remember that incredible draft night very well.

Yeah, I may be a little impatient too.


Re: We have to be patient
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2015, 07:13:46 PM »

Offline Future Celtics Owner

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Unfortunately patients is a foreign concept to many.

We want to win now!...we want stars now! We need to buy green shirts with players names on the back... now! I want a championship tattoo someplace on my body, now!

The fact is, some Celtic fans got spoiled by the championship of 08. We went from a team with no hope to a championship in a single year. What a freeking ride! I remember that incredible draft night very well.

Yeah, I may be a little impatient too.
Back then we had more promising talent. We had the #5 pick, Gereald Green(many thought was next TMAC), and Big Al. We also benefited from a system that let high schoolers go straight to the pro's. Danny was able to capatilize on that particular system with Big Al and Gerald Green.

Re: We have to be patient
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2015, 08:03:11 PM »

Offline Rosco917

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Unfortunately patients is a foreign concept to many.

We want to win now!...we want stars now! We need to buy green shirts with players names on the back... now! I want a championship tattoo someplace on my body, now!

The fact is, some Celtic fans got spoiled by the championship of 08. We went from a team with no hope to a championship in a single year. What a freeking ride! I remember that incredible draft night very well.

Yeah, I may be a little impatient too.
Back then we had more promising talent. We had the #5 pick, Gereald Green(many thought was next TMAC), and Big Al. We also benefited from a system that let high schoolers go straight to the pro's. Danny was able to capatilize on that particular system with Big Al and Gerald Green.



The point is we weren't winning. No matter what you though of Big Al and Green, if we didn't make the KG move and stood pat, we most likely we're not going anywhere.
Then bang one move led to another and we had a team that turned out to take the league by storm.

Are we set up in exactly the same way? No, but we do have many draft choices, and some good young guys, and the possibility of serious cap space. This off season is going to very important. I'll be patient, but I'm also optimistic based on what we did this year winning 40 games.

Re: We have to be patient
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2015, 08:41:22 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
My favorite is Brandan InGram
  He looks promising but the video claims he has KD game which he does not.  More of a slasher than KD.

Re: We have to be patient
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2015, 08:41:54 PM »

Offline BornReady

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i have a ton of faith in smart

not so much in young as despite his above average size and length he is not good defensively and i dont think he will improve
i think young is a solid player but temper my expectations of him to arron affalo type player
he can start or come off the bench and score but wont be a one of the main offensive weapons

Re: We have to be patient
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2015, 09:24:24 PM »

Offline gpap

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Unfortunately patients is a foreign concept to many.

We want to win now!...we want stars now! We need to buy green shirts with players names on the back... now! I want a championship tattoo someplace on my body, now!

The fact is, some Celtic fans got spoiled by the championship of 08. We went from a team with no hope to a championship in a single year. What a freeking ride! I remember that incredible draft night very well.

Yeah, I may be a little impatient too.

And what's wrong with that?

I don't want my team to consist of a bunch of losers.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2015, 10:35:42 PM by gpap »

Re: We have to be patient
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2015, 09:48:39 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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To be honest, I have pretty low expectations of Young and Turner. 

Young
Young looks like he has nice size/length, but he seems to have fairly average athleticism and a significant lack of physical strength. 

Offensively I like his jump shot, but I'm not sure he has the ball handling skills or speed/strength to get to the basket and finish at the NBA level.  He passing skills seem par for the course too. 

Defensively so far he seems pretty limited as a result of so-so lateral quickness, lack of physical strength, and what appears to be pretty average defensive IQ.  His rebounding skills, again, haven't stood out.

I think he could develop into a solid rotation player one day, but I don't see the star potential that others are crying out about.  I think his one excellent skill is his jump shot, and he'll probably earn playing time late in his career on that alone.  I  might be proven wrong - I hope I am.

Turner
Turner I think is limited by his basketball IQ. 

The kid has talent - good size, very good ball handling skills, solid passer, good midrange game, improved defense and an ability to get to the basket.  But tries too hard to force things, rather than letting the game come to him, and he struggles badly under pressure.  Any trap / double team of Turner is an almost certain turnover.  Really, he causes it himself most the time - runs straight in to two defenders, then tries to get fancy, then loses the ball. 

For Turner to take that next step he needs become a consistent three point threat (at least a 35% shooter from three) and needs to learn to let the game come to him - but those have always been his limitations, and it's hard for a 'leopard to change it's spots'.  Unless he does those things he'll remain what he is now, which is a solid backup / role player who you can bring off the bench at multiple positions, as a bit of an offensive spark plug (if he is on that day).

I'm encouraged by his improvement this season (because most viewed him as a lost cause after his stint in Indiana) but any hope that he'd justify his high lottery selection (or even close to it) is I think long gone.  I doubt Turner will ever be "starter on a good playoff team" caliber player, but I think he could be a nice role / situational player.

Smart
Smart I think is in a different position.  He doesn't just have solid physical gifts, you can see he has solid basketball IQ and an elite motor / work ethic.  Those two things can take a player a long way.  As 20 year old rookie who isn't a natural PG, he's already putting up solid assist-to-turnover numbers mainly due to the fact that he doesn't try to be too fancy - he makes the simple play, and he rarely turns the ball over. He's also shown he has potential as a shooter (he was outstanding in stretches), that he can score under defensive pressure (he hit a TON of threes with a hand in his face) and that he can score under mental pressure (he hit a number of big clutch shots).  His defense is already elite, he can defend 3 positions, he can play two positions pretty comfortably, and he has a natural leadership ability that's pretty rare.

The best thing with smart is that aside from his defense, every other aspect of his game is in the 'room for improvement' category.  His jumper isn't bad enough to be a lost cause, but isn't good enough to be dangerous - that means potential for improvement.  Same with his ability to finish around the basket.  Same with his passing, his ball handling and his rebounding.  I think all those areas will improve with time, and that Smart will soon emerge as a Chauncey Billups type player - one of those guys who doesn't put up super-elite stats (albeit very good ones - maybe 17/6/5) but somehow creates winning atmosphere everywhere he goes. 

I think Sully and Olynyk both have the POTENTIAL to be very good players. 

Sully
Sully could be a 20/10 guy, but it's dependent on him losing the attitude issues and improving his professional work ethic.  He has a high motor when he's on the court, but seems completely disinterested off the court. 

His plus/minus stats and PER numbers are consistently solid, but he's held back defensively because of poor conditioning and offensively because he forces too many ill-advised jump shots rather than playing to his strengths (as a borderline elite inside finisher).  If he could improve his conditioning and improve his shot selection he could be a borderline all-star, and could be that easily. 

I'm actually not too concerned about his 3Pt percentages - he's got decent form on his shot, shoots a decent percentage from midrange and from the foul line - if he keeps shooting he will become a dependable 3PT shooter.  What concerns me is that almost 1/4 (23% and 28%) of all his FGA were three's over the past two seasons, and that's far too much for a guy who is as skilled down low (and even from midrange) as he is.  By comparison he has taken only 31% and 29% of his shots from inside 3 feet.  Those two figures combined are a big reason why he has shot 43.9% and 42.7% from the field in the past two seasons, which is horrendous for a PF.  The fact that so many of his shots (around 75%) have been jumpers is also a big reason why he had very poor free throw rates of 22% and 18% those two seasons...absolutely unacceptable for a 6'9" 260 lbs PF who thrives in the physical game (62% FG from inside 3 feet for his career).   

By comparison in his rookie year he took only 2% of his shots from three and 45% of his shots came from inside 3 feet (where he shot an NBA elite 67%).  The result?  He shot a nice 49% from the field and had an at least somewhat respectable Free Throw Rate of 28%.

For Sully it's all mental - his entire career success depends entirely on his discipline.

Olynyk
I think Olynyk is quite possibly the most skilled player on the entire Celtics roster, who is unfortunately limited by physical attributes that he has no real control over.

Olynyk has everything - passing skills, ball handling skills, a great jump shot, good rebounding instincts, incredible basketball IQ (on both ends of the floor), decent mobility, a coachable mentality.   He even has decent set of post moves, if his college career is anything to go off.

Unfortunately though, his combined lack of length (6'10" wingspan is vastly undersized for either the PF or C spot in the NBA), lack of physical strength (his frame seems to limit how much muscle he can add) and lack of explosive athleticism limits his ability to make the most of those skills.  If Olynyk has a 4" longer wingpan, or another 20 lbs of muscle he could could probably be a beast in the low post.  If he was more explosive, he could be an elite P&R finisher.  Unfortunately for him though, he lacks both. 

I love Olynyk as a player because I don't think there is a single guy on this team who makes the most of limited physical abilities the way KO does.  Yet despite his lack of physical gifts, I still think he has a good amount of potential on his skills alone.  If he continues to improve as a shooter and makes even small improvements to his physical abilities (added fitness / muscle) then he could be a dangerous support player. 

His per 36 minute stats have been very good in both of his initial seasons, and his Defensive RPM stat (+1.71) indicate that he's actually a far better defensive player then people give him credit for.  That number ranks him above Hassan Whiteside (+1.65), Dwight Howard (+1.58) and Bismack Biyombo (+1.59) and only a few slots below Robyn Lopez (+1.74), Al Horford (+1.74) Omer Asik (+1.85) and Marc Gasol (+1.92).  Some pretty nice company there.

Zeller
Zeller I actually see as a dark horse  - I think he has the potential to be a nice player one day.  Not a great one, but a nice one.

Zeller has decent physical traits.  He's 7'0", has passable (if not good) wingspan, has good speed and lateral quickness for a center, and seems to have good IQ.  He's got a very nice touch around the basket (where he rarely misses), is developing a nice midrange jumper, is a good free throw shooter (and gets to the line at a passable rate) and is (IMO) a better passer than his assist numbers would suggest.

The main issue I see with zeller is that he sometimes struggles to score against length, but I think he could (in a couple of years) become a starting calibre center. 
« Last Edit: May 19, 2015, 10:44:57 PM by crimson_stallion »

Re: We have to be patient
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2015, 10:23:22 PM »

Offline cb8883

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You need talent and quite frankly after the draft the team's in the top 5 of this draft will have a better chance at super star talent than the Boston Celtics. Lakers front court with Randle and the franchise center they draft will be amazing next year. That plus money equals playoffs and not a first round exit next year.