Upshaw with the 16th pick. Yes or No?

[Tr1boy]

His defensive fundamentals are really bad. He is going to be a foul machine when he firsts start off in the NBA. A lot of work ahead of him before he is ready to be a good defender.

Your correct, he's not a finished product. He needs work, his free throw shooting is bad, and some of his fundamentals aren't good, and his motor is suspect. (We're not talking a healthy Greg Oden here). But with NBA coaching, 100% dedication on both sides of the coin, he could become a more than solid NBA center in a few years.

So:

1. Drug problems
2. Attitude problems (by his own admission, he wasn't "coachable")
3. Questionable motor
4. Poor fundamentals (rebounding, defensive instincts, FT shooting)

Why are we even having this discussion at #16?  How is this guy anything other than a bigger, less stable Sean Williams?

Those are the same questions that surrounded Drummond (except drug problems). Same thing with Whiteside.

Maybe college was a little too easy for him and now he is going to have to work.

The difference between Upshaw and Williams, is that Upshaw has a NBA center frame/length/weight and some good looking skills.  Williams was not very strong and brought little to nothing to the table other than ability to sky over people.

[Tr1boy]

Also if he didn't have some of those questions you mentioned, Upshaw would be a top 5 pick

Not everyday you come across a center prospect with the body, length, athleticism, mobility, promising looking skills as Upshaw

This said , I trust Danny . He did mess up with Melo, so he is going to be extra careful I'm sure with the next center he drafts.  Melo also had similar qualities to Upshaw, big body, athletic, excellent shot blocker.  But ended up as a bust

Danny is going to workout Rakeem Christmas later this month, and prob some other pf/c also.
If they impress and Upshaw does not as much,  I can see Danny taking the safe choice at 16 (booker, RHJ, Anderson)  and grabbing Christmas instead at 28 or 33 (vs taking Upshaw at 16 and picking a so so sf prospect at 28, 33)

[kne]

He said "Anything is possible". That's bonus points, right?

http://youtu.be/iKdLTtEmAAA

[max215]

Yes, he could still be a steal at #16 in the long run. Personally, I'd much rather have Upshaw than WCS.

[MSceltic]

I wouldn't draft him with our 16th but obviously would draft him with the clippers pick. I think Boston would be a good fit for him because it is all the way across the country from where he had the majority of his problems.

[Granath]

No. Nope. No thank you.

Roy H. has been spot on in this thread. Not only are there the downsides to his game that he mentioned (and I'll repost, thanks Roy):

1. Drug problems
2. Attitude problems
3. Questionable motor
4. Poor fundamentals

I'll also add in:

5. Exceptionally raw (guess this goes with poor fundamentals)
6. Limited scouting tape

Those who say he would be a top 5 pick are out of their minds. There's simply not enough on tape to make that happen given the other guys in this draft. I think some people at CB only look at height and reach and then make their decisions on who to draft by who is the biggest guy out there.

You can't just consider the upside. You also have to consider the downside and that isn't just on the court, it's in the locker room. Do you want a drug using, lazy malcontent in the locker room with a bunch of younger, impressionable kids? I'm not saying that's what he'll be, but there is a reasonable chance that's what he'll be. So not only could he fail, he could influence others to fail and that's can't be discounted. If it can happen on an experienced Dallas team with Rondo, imagine what could happen with these young Celtics!

I'm not saying he's not talented. And I'm not saying don't grab him. But you have to be extremely cautious and factor in everything. That drops his stock past other guys who may not have quite the same physical skills but bring a much more professional mentality to the team.

People here still **** about Fab Melo even though he was drafted at 22 and there was virtually no decent players selected after him in that draft (there's only 3 decent players after Melo not on the Celtics - Middleton, Green and Wroten). It was a thin draft and a crapshoot at that position. But oh God the complaints about how the Celtics "wasted" a draft choice keep on coming even 3 years later.  Imagine Celtics Blog if Danny selected this guy at 16 and not only did he bust but he turned out to be a locker room cancer. Lynch mob. So you select him at a position where the risk outweighs the reward - and that's late in the first or in the 2nd.

PS - I'm not suggesting that Danny base his decision on what Celtics Blog might think about his draft choice. But he [dang] well better think about what his owners think about his draft choice. Picking a lazy druggie for a young impressionable team...that'll get you fired if it doesn't work out.

[BadNewsBarnes]

I wouldn't draft him with our 16th but obviously would draft him with the clippers pick. I think Boston would be a good fit for him because it is all the way across the country from where he had the majority of his problems.

This is where I am.  #16 is too soon, #28 is about the right time to take a flyer on him.

[Csfan1984]

No. Nope. No thank you.

Roy H. has been spot on in this thread. Not only are there the downsides to his game that he mentioned (and I'll repost, thanks Roy):

1. Drug problems
2. Attitude problems
3. Questionable motor
4. Poor fundamentals

I'll also add in:

5. Exceptionally raw (guess this goes with poor fundamentals)
6. Limited scouting tape

Those who say he would be a top 5 pick are out of their minds. There's simply not enough on tape to make that happen given the other guys in this draft. I think some people at CB only look at height and reach and then make their decisions on who to draft by who is the biggest guy out there.

You can't just consider the upside. You also have to consider the downside and that isn't just on the court, it's in the locker room. Do you want a drug using, lazy malcontent in the locker room with a bunch of younger, impressionable kids? I'm not saying that's what he'll be, but there is a reasonable chance that's what he'll be. So not only could he fail, he could influence others to fail and that's can't be discounted. If it can happen on an experienced Dallas team with Rondo, imagine what could happen with these young Celtics!

I'm not saying he's not talented. And I'm not saying don't grab him. But you have to be extremely cautious and factor in everything. That drops his stock past other guys who may not have quite the same physical skills but bring a much more professional mentality to the team.

People here still **** about Fab Melo even though he was drafted at 22 and there was virtually no decent players selected after him in that draft (there's only 3 decent players after Melo not on the Celtics - Middleton, Green and Wroten). It was a thin draft and a crapshoot at that position. But oh God the complaints about how the Celtics "wasted" a draft choice keep on coming even 3 years later.  Imagine Celtics Blog if Danny selected this guy at 16 and not only did he bust but he turned out to be a locker room cancer. Lynch mob. So you select him at a position where the risk outweighs the reward - and that's late in the first or in the 2nd.

PS - I'm not suggesting that Danny base his decision on what Celtics Blog might think about his draft choice. But he [dang] well better think about what his owners think about his draft choice. Picking a lazy druggie for a young impressionable team...that'll get you fired if it doesn't work out.

Tp

[Roy H.]

Also if he didn't have some of those questions you mentioned, Upshaw would be a top 5 pick

Make a case for him being drafted over:

Towns
Okafor
Russell
Mudiay
Winslow
Porzingis
Hezonia
Johnson
WCS

I can't see any scenario, even without the drug use, where Upshaw would go before those nine guys.

[hwangjini_1]

take this post with whatever level of salt you wish. i played the video above of upshaw to my friend, who was trained in clinical psychology and analyses people's faces very, very well.

she watched upshaw and said the following:

1. he is not a bad guy at all. no darkness or evil inside him.

2. he could not make prolonged eye contact and looked away frequently, which she read here as signaling a severe lack of self-confidence. such a lack often plays out with poor behavioral decisions.

3. he doesnt believe that people trust him, which feeds on his lack of self-confidence.

there you go. a quick and dirty, but professional, personality reading based upon a single interview. 

my take away is that this kid is NOT some dark and evil soul. he has made bad choices, but he can learn. he needs structure and guidance, not unusual at all there.

heck, i wouldnt mind ainge rolling the dice on him. CBS may be perfect for him.

[Mass_1081]

Yes, he could still be a steal at #16 in the long run. Personally, I'd much rather have Upshaw than WCS.

Wow, I think people are highly overrating Upshaw at this point. Yeah, he's shown elite shot blocking in his time with Washington, but he also has a lot of work to do on the defensive end. Has anyone watched his game. Poelt(who would have been perfect for the C's if he declared) gave him big problems posting up.  Upshaw doesn't have the best lateral movement or court vision, he is somewhat still raw playing on the block. I'm not even going to get into his offensive game, but there is no way he gets taken in the teens.Looney is a better rebounder at the moment. Taking Upshaw at 28 is a gamble, there is a good chance he'll be there at 33. If you're really worried then use 33 to move up from  28 to say 22 at the most.

[byennie]

Also if he didn't have some of those questions you mentioned, Upshaw would be a top 5 pick

Make a case for him being drafted over:

Towns
Okafor
Russell
Mudiay
Winslow
Porzingis
Hezonia
Johnson
WCS

I can't see any scenario, even without the drug use, where Upshaw would go before those nine guys.

He's the biggest, tallest player in the draft, and his numbers are virtually identical to Towns except with poor free throw shooting and more blocked shots. Top-5 is not unreasonable if he had great intangibles instead of lousy ones. Just the idea that he's not a total bum is getting him considered for middle first round. I think Towns would still be the better prospect because of his shooting, but Upshaw could be right in the mix with Okafor, Porzingis and WCS.

[Mass_1081]

Too much risk picking him at 16. Even if Ainge is a risk taker, he would be a fool not to mitigate the risk by moving down from 16 to pick up an extra asset and still get Upshaw.

What makes the most sense is packaging a second and 28 to move up to get Upshaw. If that isn't enough to get him then I say stay away.

And what  if he has cleaned up his act and becomes the next Drummond?

Its a 2 year risk. If he messes up, you don't offer him the next part of his rookie contract. He is done from NBA for life then

  He is nowhere near the rebounder Drummond was in college. Even if you threw out his year at Fresno state and compared him to other freshman, he wouldn't even be one of the best three rebounders in the Pac twelve last year. Ups haw wouldn't have been a lottery pick if he was a saint, I'm not sure where people are getting this from.

[Beat LA]

take this post with whatever level of salt you wish. i played the video above of upshaw to my friend, who was trained in clinical psychology and analyses people's faces very, very well.

she watched upshaw and said the following:

1. he is not a bad guy at all. no darkness or evil inside him.

2. he could not make prolonged eye contact and looked away frequently, which she read here as signaling a severe lack of self-confidence. such a lack often plays out with poor behavioral decisions.

3. he doesnt believe that people trust him, which feeds on his lack of self-confidence.

there you go. a quick and dirty, but professional, personality reading based upon a single interview. 

my take away is that this kid is NOT some dark and evil soul. he has made bad choices, but he can learn. he needs structure and guidance, not unusual at all there.

heck, i wouldnt mind ainge rolling the dice on him. CBS may be perfect for him.

I know that we've disagreed on Ainge, but thank you for this unique, if still unofficial, lol , insight - TP .  Hopefully Danny's brain guy sees things the same way.

[Beat LA]

Also if he didn't have some of those questions you mentioned, Upshaw would be a top 5 pick

Make a case for him being drafted over:

Towns
Okafor
Russell
Mudiay
Winslow
Porzingis
Hezonia
Johnson
WCS

I can't see any scenario, even without the drug use, where Upshaw would go before those nine guys.

While I'm certainly not familiar with the international prospects listed here, I would absolutely take him over WCS, and he might even be better than Okafor, long term.  Upshaw is certainly better than him defensively and in terms of rebounding, and don't sleep on his offense, either.  He might not be as advanced as Okafor is right now, but he has a number of good moves, keeps the ball high on dunks and put-backs, and can score with either hand on the block.  He's raw, sure, but he certainly has the tools to become a very good player.  Remind me, again, of Okafor's 'defense' , smh ?

Btw, why do you keep comparing every shot-blocker to Sean Williams, lol ?  Iirc, you did so with Whiteside, and now you're doing it with Upshaw.  I also think that comparing him with Fab freakin' Melo is rather insulting to Upshaw's abilities.  I went back and looked at Melo's numbers, and Upshaw completely dwarfs all of them, particularly in bpg, which he also happened to do in fewer minutes. 

However, as we both know, numbers never tell the whole story, and this is what separates Upshaw from Melo.  Look at the highlight video again.  3 of Robert's 7 blocks came with his left hand, and he kept all but 1 of his rejections in play.  For a comparison, I went back and watched Fab's record-setting performance in the d-league, and he only blocked 1-2 with his left hand, and on most occasions he opted to channel his inner Javale McGee by spiking his swats into the seats as if he was playing volleyball . He has neither Upshaw's technique nor timing, never mind potential, so I really don't see how anyone could, or would, ever compare the two.

Btw, what are these poor fundamentals, specifically?  I'm not saying that he's fundamentally sound, but I think you're drastically underrating him, here, as usual, lol .