Upshaw with the 16th pick. Yes or No?

[Who]

His defensive fundamentals are really bad. He is going to be a foul machine when he firsts start off in the NBA. A lot of work ahead of him before he is ready to be a good defender.

[Celtics4ever]

The other thing I worry about Upshaw outside of his outside basketball issue is his ability to box out on the defensive end

This is not grade school, how many pros do you see box out on a consistent basis?   Boxing out is for guys who lack height, can't jump and don't have long arms that is why it is almost non existent in the NBA or NCAA.   You might see it a few times a game.

[Rosco917]

This situation with Upshaw is difficult. Like others have said, if he had no personal problems, and had a trouble free college career, he would be a top ten pick. But also, if he had a trouble free college career, there would have been many more big games and big tests to base your opinion on about him.

IMO he will be there at 16, but not 28. So I guess it depends on who is left at 16. (If Turner or WCS are there at 16, I say grab one of them, but I doubt they will be.

The fact is, at #16, we're not talking a about a franchise changer in this draft. Plus, we have a ton of draft picks in the next 2,3 years, and money to spend in free agency this year.

One thing for sure, the number one need for the Celtics is a strong, long, defensive minded center. He could be that guy if his head were screwed on right.

Worst case scenario...he never plays an NBA game, and we loose him in a few years. Money wise it would be a small loss, he would be on a rookie contract.

...If he interviews well, and shows well in the 5 on 5 games,
go for it, his possible up side is just too high.
   
 

[Roy H.]

Worst case scenario...he never plays an NBA game, and we loose him in a few years. Money wise it would be a small loss, he would be on a rookie contract.
   

There's a part two to that worst case scenario, though:  The player we pass on for Upshaw becomes a rotation player, perhaps even a good starter, who we could have had locked up for four years at a very small salary.

[Rosco917]

His defensive fundamentals are really bad. He is going to be a foul machine when he firsts start off in the NBA. A lot of work ahead of him before he is ready to be a good defender.

Your correct, he's not a finished product. He needs work, his free throw shooting is bad, and some of his fundamentals aren't good, and his motor is suspect. (We're not talking a healthy Greg Oden here). But with NBA coaching, 100% dedication on both sides of the coin, he could become a more than solid NBA center in a few years.

[Roy H.]

By the way, where's the buzz about Upshaw being a lock for the top-20 coming from?

nbadraft.net has him at #50
draftexpress has him at #25

The three front office personnel that Sherrod Blakely allegedly said that he wasn't on their draft boards, and he speculated that Upshaw would be there at #28 or #33.

[Roy H.]

His defensive fundamentals are really bad. He is going to be a foul machine when he firsts start off in the NBA. A lot of work ahead of him before he is ready to be a good defender.

Your correct, he's not a finished product. He needs work, his free throw shooting is bad, and some of his fundamentals aren't good, and his motor is suspect. (We're not talking a healthy Greg Oden here). But with NBA coaching, 100% dedication on both sides of the coin, he could become a more than solid NBA center in a few years.

So:

1. Drug problems
2. Attitude problems (by his own admission, he wasn't "coachable")
3. Questionable motor
4. Poor fundamentals (rebounding, defensive instincts, FT shooting)

Why are we even having this discussion at #16?  How is this guy anything other than a bigger, less stable Sean Williams?

[CoachBo]

His defensive fundamentals are really bad. He is going to be a foul machine when he firsts start off in the NBA. A lot of work ahead of him before he is ready to be a good defender.

Your correct, he's not a finished product. He needs work, his free throw shooting is bad, and some of his fundamentals aren't good, and his motor is suspect. (We're not talking a healthy Greg Oden here). But with NBA coaching, 100% dedication on both sides of the coin, he could become a more than solid NBA center in a few years.

So:

1. Drug problems
2. Attitude problems (by his own admission, he wasn't "coachable")
3. Questionable motor
4. Poor fundamentals (rebounding, defensive instincts, FT shooting)

Why are we even having this discussion at #16?  How is this guy anything other than a bigger, less stable Sean Williams?

Good question. The answer to the OP is a resounding no.

But Danny's always been fascinated with "project" bigs.

[Rosco917]

Worst case scenario...he never plays an NBA game, and we loose him in a few years. Money wise it would be a small loss, he would be on a rookie contract.
   

There's a part two to that worst case scenario, though:  The player we pass on for Upshaw becomes a rotation player, perhaps even a good starter, who we could have had locked up for four years at a very small salary.

I know, I know, but we are full of rotation players. We have money to spend in free agency for a key player or two to add.
We also have a young bright coach and some good character guys on this team. When he see's Smart, Crowder and AB work, it hopefully will rub off.

It's not an easy decision to make, that old saying comes into play, "you can't teach 7 feet"

[Roy H.]

Worst case scenario...he never plays an NBA game, and we loose him in a few years. Money wise it would be a small loss, he would be on a rookie contract.
   

There's a part two to that worst case scenario, though:  The player we pass on for Upshaw becomes a rotation player, perhaps even a good starter, who we could have had locked up for four years at a very small salary.

I know, I know, but we are full of rotation players. We have money to spend in free agency for a key player or two to add.
We also have a young bright coach and some good character guys on this team. When he see's Smart, Crowder and AB work, it hopefully will rub off.

It's not an easy decision to make, that old saying comes into play, "you can't teach 7 feet"

True, and at #28 or #33 I'd take the risk, since the chances of hitting at that pick are very small.  We've seen some good players taken around #16, though, and I don't want to miss on a good player to take a project.

[Rosco917]

His defensive fundamentals are really bad. He is going to be a foul machine when he firsts start off in the NBA. A lot of work ahead of him before he is ready to be a good defender.

Your correct, he's not a finished product. He needs work, his free throw shooting is bad, and some of his fundamentals aren't good, and his motor is suspect. (We're not talking a healthy Greg Oden here). But with NBA coaching, 100% dedication on both sides of the coin, he could become a more than solid NBA center in a few years.

So:

1. Drug problems
2. Attitude problems (by his own admission, he wasn't "coachable")
3. Questionable motor
4. Poor fundamentals (rebounding, defensive instincts, FT shooting)

Why are we even having this discussion at #16?  How is this guy anything other than a bigger, less stable Sean Williams?

Good question. The answer to the OP is a resounding no.

But Danny's always been fascinated with "project" bigs.

This is not an easy decision. Sometimes it's a gut decision. 

But were talking drafting 16th in a draft that is OK at best. We have free agent money this year, and a ton of draft choices in the near future. We can afford to take a shot at 16. It's not like were drafting #5 or #8 or even 10. At 16 in this draft it starts to thin out.

[Rosco917]

Worst case scenario...he never plays an NBA game, and we loose him in a few years. Money wise it would be a small loss, he would be on a rookie contract.
   

There's a part two to that worst case scenario, though:  The player we pass on for Upshaw becomes a rotation player, perhaps even a good starter, who we could have had locked up for four years at a very small salary.

I know, I know, but we are full of rotation players. We have money to spend in free agency for a key player or two to add.
We also have a young bright coach and some good character guys on this team. When he see's Smart, Crowder and AB work, it hopefully will rub off.

It's not an easy decision to make, that old saying comes into play, "you can't teach 7 feet"

True, and at #28 or #33 I'd take the risk, since the chances of hitting at that pick are very small.  We've seen some good players taken around #16, though, and I don't want to miss on a good player to take a project.

I'd love to get him at 28th.
I just think if he shows well at the combine, and looks strong in the 5 on 5, he will be gone at 28.

It's not like we have a bunch of talent at the 5. Unfortunately Zeller is not the center of the future.
After Zeller, we have nothing.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

at 16  i think danny reaches for Upshaw. Its a risk you can take. You are not going to cry passing over a RJ Hunter

He might trade the 28 and 33rd to move up to 23,24 and still get Anderson, Wood ,Rhj as the safe pick.

no, too high to blow a pick on a head case.  can get a good player at that pick without the baggage.  if anything, I'd take him at 33 where he won't have a guaranteed contract.  if someone else grabs him, so be it.

So, take a safe role player potential player than take the kid with star potential...


I get the idea if it's a top 5 pick, as there could be a bust chance because of his baggage and there could be better or close to good talent in in the 6-8 spot. But this is #16 we are talking about, and a kid who's a projected lottery pick if he didn't have the res flags. It's absolutely good to take a chance on a projected lottery pick when he drops to the mid rounds. We are not investing a big asset in the kid and the reward could be a jackpot.

So why not work tirelessly to make sure the baggage doesn't hinder his career? Why pass on a clear good talent for apotential role player or bench guy just, in the mid first round, just because he's had drug issues when he was in college. Take the talent and work with him to make him on track, don't pass on him just because he made mistakes when he was a kid. Not in the mid rounds.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

His defensive fundamentals are really bad. He is going to be a foul machine when he firsts start off in the NBA. A lot of work ahead of him before he is ready to be a good defender.

Your correct, he's not a finished product. He needs work, his free throw shooting is bad, and some of his fundamentals aren't good, and his motor is suspect. (We're not talking a healthy Greg Oden here). But with NBA coaching, 100% dedication on both sides of the coin, he could become a more than solid NBA center in a few years.

So:

1. Drug problems
2. Attitude problems (by his own admission, he wasn't "coachable")
3. Questionable motor
4. Poor fundamentals (rebounding, defensive instincts, FT shooting)

Why are we even having this discussion at #16?  How is this guy anything other than a bigger, less stable Sean Williams?

Upside, legitimate size and a good basketball track record despite the baggage.

I get the red flags, so work with him and make sure he's on the right track. Everything you listed can be worked and improves, especially the basketball related. What you can't work on is legit size and potential. Who else from the #16 spot and lower have the same upside as he is?

Take the dude with the star potential and just work with him. He has already taken precautions to start working on his issues (he went and finished rehab), just add a support structure within the team to keep him grounded and make him realize how much potential he has if he just work for it. I'd rather do that than take a clean cut future 12 minutes per game guy at #16.

[Tr1boy]

The other thing I worry about Upshaw outside of his outside basketball issue is his ability to box out on the defensive end

This is not grade school, how many pros do you see box out on a consistent basis?   Boxing out is for guys who lack height, can't jump and don't have long arms that is why it is almost non existent in the NBA or NCAA.   You might see it a few times a game.

are you serious??

If you don't box out , then who is going to grab the rebound on the defensive end??

Say you have two Hassan Whiteside , both are just waiting to grab the rebound (no boxing out). Who is going to get it?  Its 50/50 isn't it?  That is why you need to box out to have an edge to grab the defensive rebound