Author Topic: Pacers want Payne? Swap for #11  (Read 4229 times)

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Pacers want Payne? Swap for #11
« on: May 15, 2015, 03:58:00 AM »

Offline byennie

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via Chad Ford:
Pacers very high on Cameron Payne. Very high. Won't be shocked if he goes to them at 11

At #11, one or two out of Turner / Stanley Johnson / Oubre should be available. Would #16 + #33  (or some other future pick) get it done if Payne is their man and will be around at #16?

Re: Pacers want Payne? Swap for #11
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2015, 04:30:07 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

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I think that's plausible.  #33 should have some value.  Giving it up to move 5 spots might be optimistic, but it just depends on who is on the board and how teams look at tiers.  If you think every player from 11 to 16 is comparable, you might as well trade #11 for 16+33

Re: Pacers want Payne? Swap for #11
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2015, 08:00:33 AM »

Offline CFAN38

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via Chad Ford:
Pacers very high on Cameron Payne. Very high. Won't be shocked if he goes to them at 11

At #11, one or two out of Turner / Stanley Johnson / Oubre should be available. Would #16 + #33  (or some other future pick) get it done if Payne is their man and will be around at #16?

Last draft the Bulls traded #16,#19 and a 2015 2nd for #11 and Anthony Randolph (was soon cut)

This sets a precedent for the cost to move up. This draft may be viewed differently but I would at least expect moving to #11 to cost the Cs #16 + #28 and #45. It is also plausible that a Indy trade could be expanded to include KO or Sully and Hibbert.
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Re: Pacers want Payne? Swap for #11
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2015, 09:14:22 AM »

Offline saltlover

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While I completely feel the Celtics should have little trouble moving up a few spots in the first round, for either of their picks, using just a few of the many second-rounders they have, I'm not sure it will be the Pacers if they have their heart set on Payne.   He very well could go before 16 if he's the first PG drafted after Mudaiy.  I could totally see OKC taking him, for instance, or another interested team trading with someone in the 13-15 range.

Re: Pacers want Payne? Swap for #11
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2015, 09:51:52 AM »

Offline Evantime34

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Or the Pacers could just pick Payne at 11, which would also be very good for us, since it could push a quality player back to us/to a pick slightly ahead of us that it would be much easier to trade for.

Either way, if this is true, it's great for us.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2015, 10:00:51 AM by Evantime34 »
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Re: Pacers want Payne? Swap for #11
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2015, 10:08:03 AM »

Offline loco_91

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While I completely feel the Celtics should have little trouble moving up a few spots in the first round, for either of their picks, using just a few of the many second-rounders they have, I'm not sure it will be the Pacers if they have their heart set on Payne.   He very well could go before 16 if he's the first PG drafted after Mudaiy.  I could totally see OKC taking him, for instance, or another interested team trading with someone in the 13-15 range.

I think Jerian Grant will (and should) go before Payne. They're fairly similar prospects, with similarly great PG skills and stats. Payne shoots it a little better but long arms are his only positive tool; he's skinny and unexplosive with average height and quicks. Grant has above-average tools across the board except for explosiveness. Grant's stats are also more impressive, as he played at a much higher level of competition.

Re: Pacers want Payne? Swap for #11
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2015, 10:20:28 AM »

Online jambr380

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via Chad Ford:
Pacers very high on Cameron Payne. Very high. Won't be shocked if he goes to them at 11

At #11, one or two out of Turner / Stanley Johnson / Oubre should be available. Would #16 + #33  (or some other future pick) get it done if Payne is their man and will be around at #16?

Last draft the Bulls traded #16,#19 and a 2015 2nd for #11 and Anthony Randolph (was soon cut)

This sets a precedent for the cost to move up. This draft may be viewed differently but I would at least expect moving to #11 to cost the Cs #16 + #28 and #45. It is also plausible that a Indy trade could be expanded to include KO or Sully and Hibbert.

I don't necessarily agree with your first statement that the precedent was set with the Bulls trade (they also took on Randolph), but I tend to agree with what you think the Cs cost will be. They may have no interest in the 45, but a 2nd first should get it done.

This will drive the tankers crazy, though. If we had just not made the playoffs, we would already be choosing at #11 and not have to trade anything. While I agree with this, I genuinely enjoyed watching this Cs team fight for a playoff spot and play hard all four games. They were never going to win, but they weren't pushovers either.

Re: Pacers want Payne? Swap for #11
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2015, 10:28:33 AM »

Offline Smartacus

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While I completely feel the Celtics should have little trouble moving up a few spots in the first round, for either of their picks, using just a few of the many second-rounders they have, I'm not sure it will be the Pacers if they have their heart set on Payne.   He very well could go before 16 if he's the first PG drafted after Mudaiy.  I could totally see OKC taking him, for instance, or another interested team trading with someone in the 13-15 range.

I think Jerian Grant will (and should) go before Payne. They're fairly similar prospects, with similarly great PG skills and stats. Payne shoots it a little better but long arms are his only positive tool; he's skinny and unexplosive with average height and quicks. Grant has above-average tools across the board except for explosiveness. Grant's stats are also more impressive, as he played at a much higher level of competition.


Cameron Payne is the possibly overlooked and undervalued prospect from a mid major school in the mold of Lilard and C. J. McCollum. Grant probably isn't going to move the needle to far for a team like The Pacers where Payne might develop into their Lou Williams.

Plus they probably need some new blood who can hit crazy shots to play HORSE against Bird in practice.

Re: Pacers want Payne? Swap for #11
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2015, 10:39:27 AM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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via Chad Ford:
Pacers very high on Cameron Payne. Very high. Won't be shocked if he goes to them at 11

At #11, one or two out of Turner / Stanley Johnson / Oubre should be available. Would #16 + #33  (or some other future pick) get it done if Payne is their man and will be around at #16?

Last draft the Bulls traded #16,#19 and a 2015 2nd for #11 and Anthony Randolph (was soon cut)

This sets a precedent for the cost to move up. This draft may be viewed differently but I would at least expect moving to #11 to cost the Cs #16 + #28 and #45. It is also plausible that a Indy trade could be expanded to include KO or Sully and Hibbert.

I don't necessarily agree with your first statement that the precedent was set with the Bulls trade (they also took on Randolph), but I tend to agree with what you think the Cs cost will be. They may have no interest in the 45, but a 2nd first should get it done.

This will drive the tankers crazy, though. If we had just not made the playoffs, we would already be choosing at #11 and not have to trade anything. While I agree with this, I genuinely enjoyed watching this Cs team fight for a playoff spot and play hard all four games. They were never going to win, but they weren't pushovers either.
The bulls trade can't quite be used as a precedent as the primary
Motivation was to cut cap to get melo by only paying 1 1st instead of 2. Also Anthony Randolph was completely non garunteed

That being said I think to get to 11 would cost more than 16 and 33

Re: Pacers want Payne? Swap for #11
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2015, 03:53:10 PM »

Offline mef730

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via Chad Ford:
Pacers very high on Cameron Payne. Very high. Won't be shocked if he goes to them at 11

At #11, one or two out of Turner / Stanley Johnson / Oubre should be available. Would #16 + #33  (or some other future pick) get it done if Payne is their man and will be around at #16?

Last draft the Bulls traded #16,#19 and a 2015 2nd for #11 and Anthony Randolph (was soon cut)

This sets a precedent for the cost to move up. This draft may be viewed differently but I would at least expect moving to #11 to cost the Cs #16 + #28 and #45. It is also plausible that a Indy trade could be expanded to include KO or Sully and Hibbert.

I don't necessarily agree with your first statement that the precedent was set with the Bulls trade (they also took on Randolph), but I tend to agree with what you think the Cs cost will be. They may have no interest in the 45, but a 2nd first should get it done.

This will drive the tankers crazy, though. If we had just not made the playoffs, we would already be choosing at #11 and not have to trade anything. While I agree with this, I genuinely enjoyed watching this Cs team fight for a playoff spot and play hard all four games. They were never going to win, but they weren't pushovers either.

I've gotta think it takes, at a minimum, #16 and #28.  Indiana's in a better position to bargain than we are, considering the dearth of talent outside of the top 10-12.  They're gonna get their guy whether they trade or not. 

As for the tankers, well, too bad.  It's a lot more fun to root for these guys to win.

Mike

Re: Pacers want Payne? Swap for #11
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2015, 04:23:05 PM »

Offline byennie

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If Indiana really wants Payne, they're not in a strong position. They either make a deal, or pick him 5-10 spots higher than necessary.

Do they want Payne, or Payne and another pick?

Obviously they can strong-arm us, but if they are the ones trying to move down we can talk to Utah at #12 and call their bluff.

Re: Pacers want Payne? Swap for #11
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2015, 05:21:00 PM »

Offline saltlover

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If Indiana really wants Payne, they're not in a strong position. They either make a deal, or pick him 5-10 spots higher than necessary.

Do they want Payne, or Payne and another pick?

Obviously they can strong-arm us, but if they are the ones trying to move down we can talk to Utah at #12 and call their bluff.

They'd only pick him about 3 spots higher than necessary.  He's really good -- definitely worthy of being the second PG taken in the draft.

Re: Pacers want Payne? Swap for #11
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2015, 06:14:43 PM »

Offline byennie

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If Indiana really wants Payne, they're not in a strong position. They either make a deal, or pick him 5-10 spots higher than necessary.

Do they want Payne, or Payne and another pick?

Obviously they can strong-arm us, but if they are the ones trying to move down we can talk to Utah at #12 and call their bluff.

They'd only pick him about 3 spots higher than necessary.  He's really good -- definitely worthy of being the second PG taken in the draft.

He's not getting drafted in the 12-15 range unless there is a trade. Utah (Burke + Exum), Phoenix (Knight + Bledsoe), OKC (Westbrook), Atlanta (Teague + Schroder) are not picking a PG. So #16 is exactly as good as #11 if they want him. He's only top 15 in theory if Indiana doesn't take him, unless one of those teams makes another move.

Re: Pacers want Payne? Swap for #11
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2015, 06:33:01 PM »

Offline saltlover

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If Indiana really wants Payne, they're not in a strong position. They either make a deal, or pick him 5-10 spots higher than necessary.

Do they want Payne, or Payne and another pick?

Obviously they can strong-arm us, but if they are the ones trying to move down we can talk to Utah at #12 and call their bluff.

They'd only pick him about 3 spots higher than necessary.  He's really good -- definitely worthy of being the second PG taken in the draft.

He's not getting drafted in the 12-15 range unless there is a trade. Utah (Burke + Exum), Phoenix (Knight + Bledsoe), OKC (Westbrook), Atlanta (Teague + Schroder) are not picking a PG. So #16 is exactly as good as #11 if they want him. He's only top 15 in theory if Indiana doesn't take him, unless one of those teams makes another move.

Do you know how deep OKC's team is?  They will absolutely go BPA.  I wouldnt be surprised if the Hawks did the same. Furthermore, in each of the last four drafts, there has been at least one draft night trade involving picks 12-15, so it's rather likely that the draft order for those slots will not hold this year as well.

If Indy traded back to us, I continue to voice my skepticism that they could acquire Payne at 16.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2015, 06:41:00 PM by saltlover »

Re: Pacers want Payne? Swap for #11
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2015, 06:50:26 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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Was thinking if they want a PG Payne not be only option maybe they like Paula as well. If C's have 16 and Paula(28) the Pacers would probably take that for 11 and 43.