Ahh, whose "best season"...way to move the goalposts. You do, of course, however, remember a certain franchise player who averaged similar numbers for the team we root for not so long ago. Just weren't the best seasons of his career. Didn't matter, though, because KG was still the best player on a championship team.
Ok, a few things wrong with this comparison.
1) You are comparing Paul Milsap's top two statistical seasons of his career (at age 29 and 30) against 6 year span in KG's career (stretching from age 31 to 37) during which he essentially had one 'near-prime' year and then started to rapidly decline due to both age and injury.
2) If KG;s value was limited to his box score numbers, then I would struggle to label him a franchise player. His biggest impact on the Celtics during the big-3 era was on the defensive end of the floor. During his 6 year run in Boston KG won the DPOTY award once, made four ($) All-Defensive teams, and ranked top 8 in the in defensive rating in every one of those 6 seasons.
By comparison Paul Millsap has never won a DPOTY award, has never made an All-Defensive team, and has only ranked top 10 in defensive rating once (2014-15, 9th overall) in his entire 9 year career.
3) In his prime years, KG consistently averaged 22-24 PPG despite the fact that he was infamous for being too unselfish, and the fact that offense (after defense and rebounding) was essentially the weakest part of his game. When you can average 24 PPG on 50% shooting and say (with a straight face) that offense is the least impressive part of your game, then you are one hell of a player.
I'm trying to keep an open mind here, but I honestly cannot understand how you could view these two players / situations as comparable?
NO, the last two seasons.
Point taken, though it doesn't really change anything.
Dude's been averaging 3 minutes less. Looking at his per 36 stats is utterly reasonable. He would almost certainly play 36 minutes a game here.
To be honest, I don't understand why you think Milsap would play more minutes in Boston than he has over the past two seasons in Atlanta.
Over his entire career he's averaged 34+ MPG only once, and his career average is just under 29 MPG.
I would totally get where you are coming from if Milsap had spend most of his career playing on teams that were making deep playoff runs that were stacked with superstars (OKC, Clevleand this season, Miami last season, etc) but that couldn't be further from the truth because:
1) He has spent most of his career playing on mediocre playoff-teams (just like the current Celtics)
2) He has spent most of his career playing on teams that have not contained any superstar players (just like the current Celtics team)
Last season Atlanta won only 46% of their games, snuck in to the East as an 8th seed, and got knocked out early in the playoffs. That's almost an almost complete clone of the season the Celtics had this year.
On that team Milsap played 33 MPG and averaged 17.9 / 8.5 / 3.1 / 1.7 / 1.1 while shooting 46% from the field and 73% from the line.
Also that Hawks team (with Horford missing much of the season) was severely lacking in front court depth.
I cannot see any logical explanation possible reason why you would expect him to play any more minutes (or have any greater production) on a Celtics team that that has a very similar makeup (talent wise) but is already stacked 4 deep (Sully, Olynyk, Bass, Zeller) in the front-court. If anything I'd expect his minutes to go down because he would be sharing playing time with (at the very least) Sully and Bass.
The only way that makes any sense is if he played SF instead of PF, in which case I still don't see him playing more than 34 minutes, because I expect the combination of Wallace/Young/Crowder/Turner to play at least 14 minutes between them.
Also if he played most his time at SF I would expect his stats (especially his rebounding and shot-blocking, probably also his FG%) to drop off significantly.
BARELY. I gave him a single extra point and a single extra rebound and a extra half-assist, because his role and usage here would presumably be way more prominent. The thing I suspect is that some people irrationally perceive a critical gap in value between 19/9 and 20/10, liable to call the former a role player and the latter a franchise player, when it's basically the same player.
I understand it doesn't seem like much, but what you need to consider is that the combination of all three of those 'adjustments' (rounding up, plus adjusting for 36 minutes, plus basing off his best career season) will give you a very optimistic number that is really not an accurate reflection of Milsap has produced over the vast majority of his career.
For example, lets say we did the same with Avery Bradley.
In Bradley's best statistical seasons (2013-14 and 2014/15) he averaged best numbers have been 14.9 PPG (13-14), 3.8 RPG (13-14), 1.8 APG (14-15) , 1.1 SPG (13-14), 0.2 BPG (13-14).
Now adjust each of those to Per-36 minute stats and you get 17.3 PPG, 4.4 RPG, 2.0 APG, 1.2 SPG, 0.2 BPG.
Now add 1 / 1 / 0.5 to those numbers and you get 18.3 points, 5.4 rebounds, 2.5 assists, 1.2 steals, 0.2 blocks.
So just from those few adjustments, we have taken Bradley's stats from this years averages of:
14.9 / 3.8 / 1.4 / 1.1 / 0.2
To adjusted 'predictions' of:
18.3 / 5.4 / 2.5 / 1.2 / 0.2
If you took that last set of numbers on their own, would you say that they paint an accurate picture of Avery Bradley as a player? I wouldn't say so.
I can see you like Milsap and you're trying to be positive, but I think you can see that the numbers you're selling are certainly a wee bit on the optimistic side.
Not sure if that paragraph of irrelevant nonsense rises to the level of being reportable, but what I would like to say back to you surely does. So...moving on.
I have no clue in the world why.
There was absolutely nothing in that statement that was offensive, that contained cursing or inappropriate language, or was a personal attack.
My comment involved making use of strong exaggeration as a means to emphasis a point. It's a very common technique in written and spoken English and pretty widely used - I don't think I've ever seen any take offense by it.
Hell back in high school my English teachers would give me extra marks for it!!
Even more concerned by the fact that your reply suggests you were intending to write something offensive / aggressive (and potentially resort to personal attacks) in return. Again, I can't see why you would feel that need.
Uh, which numbers? The 20/10/4/2/1 line he might average here with 36+ minutes, or the 19/9/3.5/2/1 line he'd already be averaging if he played a mere 3 minutes more per game now? Would love to know how many players have averaged the former and not been named to an All Star game. Millsap has been an All Star the last two years, with slightly lesser numbers.
Please note that by referring to the stats as 'borderline All-star' numbers I'm not saying thazt they aren't All-Star numbers...I'm just saying that they aren't the kind of superstar numbers that guarantee you an All-Star place.
The NBA's All-Star Voting system is VERY heavily weighted based on public popularity (starters) and team success (reserves).
For example, Demarcus Cousins (24/13/3/1/1) did not get voted in to the All-Star game this season despite the fact that he is clearly the best center (and a top 10 player) in the NBA. Not until multiple players got injured, did cousins then get voted in as an injury replacement. This is largely due to the fact that the Kings did not have a great record.
By comparison Kyle Korver is not even close to being 1/2 of the player Demarcus Cousins is, yet he made the All-Star game as an IR just as Cousins did. This, I can assure you, is entirely due to the fact that the Hawks had the best record in the East. Had they won 46% of their games (like last season) there's no way Korver made that team.
What I'm saying here is that for a big man to make make an All-Star team convincingly while playing on a bad team, you generally need to put up some serious superstar numbers. I'm talking DCousins / ADavis / KLove / CBosh / KGarnett (i.e. 24/12/2 or better) type numbers. Any less than that and you still might make it, but it's ultimately going to be determined by:
a) How good your team's record is
b) How popular you are to the fans (e.g. if you're an exciting above-the-rim type)
c) How strong your competition is
If your team has a bad record, you aren't an especially popular player, and there is especially strong competition at the forward spot, then chances are a guy like Milsap (even with those numbers) doesn't make the team.
But the bigger concern here is that in his entire NBA Career, Milsap has never averaged 20 points per 36, he's never averaged 4 assists per 36, he's averaged 2 steals per 36 only once and he hasn't averaged 10 rebounds per 36 since he was 23 years old.
The odds of him putting up that full line of stats for an entire season, even if he did play 36 MPG, are unfortunately not very likely. Not impossible, mind you...but unlikely.
I'm thinking best case he might give you 19.2/9.2/3.5/1.8/1.0 and his field goal percentage (as a result of the added offensive responsible) would probably not go above 46%, much like in 2013/14. With those numbers, again, it's a 50/50 on whether you make the All-Star Team. Hence, you're a 'borderline All-Star'.
In response to your other question, there have been a lot of guys who have put up very impressive numbers, but didn't make the All-Star game:
* In 2010-11 Josh Smith averaged 18.8 / 9.6 / 3.9 / 1.4 / 1.7
* In 2014-15 Rudy Gay averaged 21 / 6 / 4 / 1.3 / 0.8
* In 2011-12 David Lee averaged 20.1 / 9.6 / 2.8
* In 2003-04 Elton Brand averaged 20 / 10.3 / 3.3 / 0.9 / 2.2
* In 2008-09 Al Jefferson averaged 19.2 / 9.6 / 2.2 / 0.8 / 1.7
* In 1997-98 Chris Webber averaged 21.9 / 9.5 / 3.8 / 1.6 / 1.7
None of those guys made the All-Star game in those seasons.
Two other examples...
From 2006-07 to 2008-09 Andre Iguodala averaged around 19 / 5 / 5 / 2.1 / 0.6 and was widely regarded as one of the best perimeter defenders in the league, but didn't make an All-Star team.
In 2012-13 (during Boston's least successful season of the Big 3 era) Paul Pierce averaged 19 / 6 / 5 and didn't make the all-star game. The previous year (when the Celtics were much more competitive) Pierce put up almost the same stats, and he was an All-Star.
Of course these aren't all identical stat lines to what you listed for Milsap, but I think these examples do help to illustrate the fact that a very good individual season often isn't enough to get you on an All-Star team. Unless you have absolutely dominant stats (like KG did in his prime, for example) you're often going to be at the mercy of team success, popularity, market size, level of competition.
When was the last time you checked KG's per-36 stats from his Celtics tenure?
Already responded to this in the first part of this post - please refer to elite defensive stats that very clearly separate KG's achievements (during that era) from Milsap's.
What?
What I'm trying to say in that response is that Milsap's publicly perceived value has changed very rapidly from last season to this season, directly as a result of the Hawks increased regular season success, despite the fact that his individual production hasn't really changed.
Milsap made the all-star team last year sure, but 90% of people out there still didn't care about him. Few people on this forum were begging for us to acquire him, and when he was a free agent the vast majority of people here were criticising Atlanta for overpaying for a guy who wasn't a star player.
Now Atlanta has one very successful season (mostly due to Horford playing more than 29 games, and the emergence of Schroeder) and suddenly everybody is begging to throw max money at Milsap, and trying to suggest that he has 'superstar' level of impact on a team.
People seem to think that Milsap is on the Hawks, and the Hawks are winning lots, so if Milsap comes to Boston then Boston will start winning lots. They seem to fail however to acknowledge the fact that Milsap was also on the Hawks last season, and last season the Hawks only won as many games as we (in all our rebuilding glory) did this season.
