Marc Stein on C's (Cousins, Love, etc.)

[Lucky17]

Edit: double post.

[Vermont Green]

I don't get why Love would accept his player option stay in Cle.  In fact, I suspect that he has already promised LeBron that he would stay (unless of course LeBron leaves which it does not appear is likely).  Why would a guy in a good situation, coming off of surgery, want to test the FA market?  I don't see it.

And Cousins?  Not sure even Sac is dumb enough to trade him.

[Gainesville Celtic]

here's my back-o-the-napkin musings that i posted in the font page story comments... curious what folks think...


This is all predicated on SAC getting to the point that they want or need to trade Cousins? (i.e. Cousins makes it clear he won?t resign so they sell a year early to maximize his trade value). I don't think SAC would or should move him --- UNLESS Cousins says "get me outta here", which plenty of players have done in their careers (doesn't make him bad).


SAC trades
DeMarcus Cousins
Jason Thompson*
Carl Landry*
* Thompson and Landry are absorbed via TPE (T. Prince?s $7.7M, part of Rondo?s $12.9M)

BOS trades
Kelly Olynyk
Jared Sullinger
James Young
Gerald Wallace
2015 BOS #1 pick
2016 BKN #1 pick
2017 BOS #1 pick


In this deal they get three good-not-great picks (likely in the 12-18 range ? though that BKN pick could end up being a very good lottery pick if Brook Lopez leaves); two productive NBA players (Sullinger & KO), one of whom (JS) could still develop into a borderline all-star IMO (i?m much higher on Sullinger than KO), and a guy in James Young who many in the NBA still believe (and I agree) can-or-will develop into a starting level swingman.

Perhaps as importantly they clean up their cap sheet by getting rid of their worst 2 contracts (I don?t see Gay?s contract as bad since he?s so relatively productive vs. Thompson and Landry).

It?s 75 cents on the dollar, but if SAC has to trade Cousins will they get more?

(IMO, PHI would be moronic to deal for Cousins as there would be ZERO chance he?d stay in that dysfunctional environment).


 I should also point out that I?d love to hold onto James Young, but I?m not one who believes we can get a player of Cousins? caliber without giving up a boatload of our desirable players and picks. Wallace is just included to make the $$ work.
I think Ainge would prefer to keep Smart and Zeller and that SAC would have little interest in Turner, Bradley (overloaded already at SG) and Thomas (i think G. Karl would prefer they go after Lawson).
Along those lines, I think they coudl prob. package one of the picks they get from us and a guy like Stauskas and get Lawson from DEN ? further increasing the haul they get for Cousins w/o cutting into their future picks?
 
 Smart / Thomas / Pressey
 Bradley / FA / FA or 2nd rounder
 Turner / Jerebko* / Datome*
 Crowder*  / J. Thompson / Landry
 Cousins / Zeller / LAC #1 pick


* Crowder resigned for ~ 3yr/$24M
* Jerebko resigned for ~ 2yr/ $8M
* Datome resigned for ~2yr/$4M
 

[BDeCosta26]

I hope the c's go after paul George.. his value is down and possibly they can match salaries using one of there larger TPE's a few players and 3 firsts.. We'll see......

Me too, Indiana isn't trading him though. No way.

On a Simmons pod-cast I listened to last week, Zach Lowe said that the "Cousins wants out" rumors were starting up, and that even though Simmons (who is no where near as smart and well connected) doesn't think so, he thinks the C's are right in the mix. I'd give up a LOT for DMC, but what's a deal they would take?

BOS: Jared Sullinger, Tyler Zeller, James Young, #16, #28, 2016 BOS 1st, 2016 BRK 1st, 2017 better of BOS/BRK 1sts, 2016 PHI 2nd, 2018 BOS 1st
SAC: DeMarcus Cousins

Too much? Too little? Do we pay less if we can take on one of their bad contracts? Is that what the trading Wallace rumors were about?

Lots of people think that we could be outbid by a team like the Knicks who have nothing except that Top 5 pick. Well, what if Cousins doesn't wanna go there. What if Sacto would rather have the multiple assets we can give them, including unprotected Brooklyn picks that look lottery bound? What helps your rebuild effort more? If he becomes available well definitely be in the mix.

And Ainge is right. We're not as far off as some people think.

[slamtheking]

I hope the c's go after paul George.. his value is down and possibly they can match salaries using one of there larger TPE's a few players and 3 firsts.. We'll see......

Me too, Indiana isn't trading him though. No way.

On a Simmons pod-cast I listened to last week, Zach Lowe said that the "Cousins wants out" rumors were starting up, and that even though Simmons (who is no where near as smart and well connected) doesn't think so, he thinks the C's are right in the mix. I'd give up a LOT for DMC, but what's a deal they would take?

BOS: Jared Sullinger, Tyler Zeller, James Young, #16, #28, 2016 BOS 1st, 2016 BRK 1st, 2017 better of BOS/BRK 1sts, 2016 PHI 2nd, 2018 BOS 1st
SAC: DeMarcus Cousins

Too much? Too little? Do we pay less if we can take on one of their bad contracts? Is that what the trading Wallace rumors were about?

Lots of people think that we could be outbid by a team like the Knicks who have nothing except that Top 5 pick. Well, what if Cousins doesn't wanna go there. What if Sacto would rather have the multiple assets we can give them, including unprotected Brooklyn picks that look lottery bound? What helps your rebuild effort more? If he becomes available well definitely be in the mix.

And Ainge is right. We're not as far off as some people think.

WAAAAAYYY too much.  2 good young players in Sully and Zeller.  a decent prospect in Young.  6!!! first rounders and a second rounder  for 1 player?  Cousins is good but that's slitting your own throat by not only grossly overpaying but also emptying out the stockpile of picks we have leaving us without the ability to add cheap, decent prospects via the draft or to have those picks available for other deals for decent players.

[LooseCannon]

If I am Sacramento, I'm asking for Smart, Young, both Brooklyn picks, both Sullinger and Olynyk (while expecting to get only one), plus more picks.

I'm not sure what the Kings would be willing to settle for, but they are almost certain to insist upon the young player with the most star potential (Smart) and the pick with the most lottery potential (one of the Brooklyn picks?) as part of the deal. 

[JohnBoy65]

Way too much I agree. Let's face it Ray Allen was traded to Boston for 1 1st round pick and some players. Granted it was the #5 pick, and granted DMC is better than Ray Allen, but he's not worth 5 more 1st round picks!

[BudweiserCeltic]

Way too much I agree. Let's face it Ray Allen was traded to Boston for 1 1st round pick and some players. Granted it was the #5 pick, and granted DMC is better than Ray Allen, but he's not worth 5 more 1st round picks!

Ray Allen was also injured and had some injury plagued seasons... that can't be discounted.

[Gainesville Celtic]

BOS: Jared Sullinger, Tyler Zeller, James Young, #16, #28, 2016 BOS 1st, 2016 BRK 1st, 2017 better of BOS/BRK 1sts, 2016 PHI 2nd, 2018 BOS 1st
SAC: DeMarcus Cousins

Too much? Too little? Do we pay less if we can take on one of their bad contracts? Is that what the trading Wallace rumors were about?

I think Ainge would overpay for Cousins (which i'm fine with) but I doubt very much that (a) he'd trade Sully, Young, SIX #1s and a Philly 2nd (almost a #1)  or that (b) he'd have to go that high.

Lots of people think that we could be outbid by a team like the Knicks who have nothing except that Top 5 pick. Well, what if Cousins doesn't wanna go there. What if Sacto would rather have the multiple assets we can give them, including unprotected Brooklyn picks that look lottery bound? What helps your rebuild effort more? If he becomes available well definitely be in the mix.

And Ainge is right. We're not as far off as some people think.

NYK has a top 5 pick, Tim Hardaway Jr. and a 2018 #1 pick .... that's about it. If I'm the Kings I'd rather have a lot of picks + a good young player or 2 (from a team like DEN or BOS) than 1 shot at a good player (even if it is a top 5 pick...)

[Vox_Populi]

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q60

Rookie scale contract extensions:

Rookie scale contracts may be extended for up to four seasons beyond the last option season in the contract, bringing the total contract length to five seasons. Teams can also select one player (called their "Designated Player") who can receive a five-year extension, bringing the total contract length to six seasons. A team can have at most one player on its roster whom they have designated for a longer extension, plus at most one player designated by another team whom they acquired in trade.

Lillard would be in the 0-6 year camp, but gets a fifth year as a designated player. I don't know the exact year-by-year breakdowns, but assuming a first year of around $15 mil, I suspect it's five years, $90 mil with yearly increases.

Oh, okay then. These things always confuse me.

[LarBrd33]

We will go after anyone who is made available.  We are hearing familiar names, because those are the players believed to be available.  All any of this means is that if a player like Carmelo Anthony is put on the trade market, Boston will throw everything they have at landing him.  We are a bit desperate to land real talent here before the cap jumps 40 mil.   We need to become an attractive destination immediately and you can't attract talent without having talent.

[Snakehead]

I know it's hard to hold players out of a trade for Cousins, but if I could save someone besides Smart, it'd be Olynyk.  Olynyk would be a perfect fit next to Cousins.  He'd pass to him and space the floor for him and benefit if Cousins is doubled.

I'm willing to give up a lot of these firsts.  We already have young players and we are doing well with the cap.  I'd hope we could get away with giving them Sullinger, Young, and Zeller or something plus picks.

[LarBrd33]

I know it's hard to hold players out of a trade for Cousins, but if I could save someone besides Smart, it'd be Olynyk.  Olynyk would be a perfect fit next to Cousins.  He'd pass to him and space the floor for him and benefit if Cousins is doubled.

I'm willing to give up a lot of these firsts.  We already have young players and we are doing well with the cap.  I'd hope we could get away with giving them Sullinger, Young, and Zeller or something plus picks.

Nobody on this team is talented enough to be a dealbreaker in a trade for a star.  That includes Marcus smart.  I like smart and hope he can develop into a rich man's tony Allen, but I can't imagine any team sending Boston a star without getting Marcus smart in the package... And I can't imagine Ainge blowing a chance on an allstar by refusing to deal smart.    Marcus is our Al Jefferson this year. Clearly our most valuable asset.  Sadly the one most likely to be moved.

[jpotter33]

I know it's hard to hold players out of a trade for Cousins, but if I could save someone besides Smart, it'd be Olynyk.  Olynyk would be a perfect fit next to Cousins.  He'd pass to him and space the floor for him and benefit if Cousins is doubled.

I'm willing to give up a lot of these firsts.  We already have young players and we are doing well with the cap.  I'd hope we could get away with giving them Sullinger, Young, and Zeller or something plus picks.

I agree. I'd love to put KO next to Cousins, but if they demanded him I'd have no problem giving him up. Smart, on the other hand, would be extremely difficult to give up. Cousins is clearly the better player, but I think those two would work well together.

[LarBrd33]

A single top 5 is definitely more valuable than #16, #28, Brooklyn's 2016 (prob 12-18).

Top 5 picks offer a reasonable chance at the next star of the league.  Those late 1sts more often than not result in players who never make it in the league.  Top 5 pick would be far more valuable.  That puts teams like LA, NY and Philly ahead of us in any trade race.   

Trading for a star is unlikely. Marcus smart, Sully, 16, 28, nets 2016 is prob an intriguing package though.