Celtics Free Agent Plan for 2015 off season

[Evantime34]

I think we need to lower our expectations. We will be lucky to get one of an Aldridge Love type free agent. It's unlikely we can add Aldridge and Jordan.

[Lucky17]

4) S&T using $12.9mm Rondo exception + future #2 for a scoring wing (M Ellis, Middleton)

You have to renounce that trade exception to create the cap space to do the free agent signings you mentioned.

Yep.

Which is why I maintain that the Celtics will not have big cap space this offseason. Ainge will use the TPEs, MLE, and keep cap holds from his UFAs in the event that he can use them in sign and trade.

You're basing this off on? You renounce the TPEs, trade/stretch Wallace, you'd have $29-$32+ million give or take in cap space.

See my edit above re: UFA cap holds.

Ainge would have to renounce a lot of potential assets to free up the cap space to lure a max free agent. It seems counter to his style.

Renouncing UFA cap holds is pointless to consider. If you're signing a free-agent you're after, you renounce them. It's really not worth giving thought to that.

The only one you wouldn't do is Crowder solely because his cap hold is very small, and you can sign him to a bigger contract after all our FAs signings, if any.

I think that's only if you a) are not bringing Bass or Jerebko back and b) not interested in signing and trading them to other teams for additional assets. I think both have value on the market.

I guess the question is whether Boston can land a franchise cornerstone in FA using cap space, or whether it's better to use the Rondo and Prince TPEs, sign and trade options, and the MLE to build a better roster. I think the second route is a more prudent use of assets.

[Lucky17]

I mean, does anyone really think that DeAndre Jordan or LaMarcus Aldridge will give up a 5th year of max money to sign with Boston? I don't. Not when both of their current franchises are much closer to a ring than Boston would be should either (not both, not enough cap space) come aboard.

[bcgenuis]

4) S&T using $12.9mm Rondo exception + future #2 for a scoring wing (M Ellis, Middleton)

You have to renounce that trade exception to create the cap space to do the free agent signings you mentioned.

Yep.

Which is why I maintain that the Celtics will not have big cap space this offseason. Ainge will use the TPEs, MLE, and keep cap holds from his UFAs in the event that he can use them in sign and trade.

You're basing this off on? You renounce the TPEs, trade/stretch Wallace, you'd have $29-$32+ million give or take in cap space.

See my edit above re: UFA cap holds.

Ainge would have to renounce a lot of potential assets to free up the cap space to lure a max free agent. It seems counter to his style.

You need to bite the bullet eventually.  Aldridge and Jordan is a pretty good bullet to bite. Celtics would still have most of their picks left (other than the one traded with Wallace).

[bcgenuis]

I mean, does anyone really think that DeAndre Jordan or LaMarcus Aldridge will give up a 5th year of max money to sign with Boston? I don't. Not when both of their current franchises are much closer to a ring than Boston would be should either (not both, not enough cap space) come aboard.

They won't sign long term deals anyway because they want to take advantage of next years projected cap increase.  You'll probably see 1+PO so that they are FA again next year.

[BudweiserCeltic]

4) S&T using $12.9mm Rondo exception + future #2 for a scoring wing (M Ellis, Middleton)

You have to renounce that trade exception to create the cap space to do the free agent signings you mentioned.

Yep.

Which is why I maintain that the Celtics will not have big cap space this offseason. Ainge will use the TPEs, MLE, and keep cap holds from his UFAs in the event that he can use them in sign and trade.

You're basing this off on? You renounce the TPEs, trade/stretch Wallace, you'd have $29-$32+ million give or take in cap space.

See my edit above re: UFA cap holds.

Ainge would have to renounce a lot of potential assets to free up the cap space to lure a max free agent. It seems counter to his style.

Renouncing UFA cap holds is pointless to consider. If you're signing a free-agent you're after, you renounce them. It's really not worth giving thought to that.

The only one you wouldn't do is Crowder solely because his cap hold is very small, and you can sign him to a bigger contract after all our FAs signings, if any.

I think that's only if you a) are not bringing Bass or Jerebko back and b) not interested in signing and trading them to other teams for additional assets. I think both have value on the market.

I guess the question is whether Boston can land a franchise cornerstone in FA using cap space, or whether it's better to use the Rondo and Prince TPEs, sign and trade options, and the MLE to build a better roster. I think the second route is a more prudent use of assets.

I don't think you have to favor any one route to consider potential cap space. If a free-agent you're actually interested in wants to sign, none of those issues should impede the signing... and more importantly, you still retain your future assets.

And yes, the interest in bringing Bass and/or Jerebko is very very small to us. That said, their cap hold is quite higher than whatever we'd be willing to retain them for, so renouncing their rights is not that important once is all said and done.

And if the interest is in keeping Bass or Jerebko, and have enough left over to do the moves you want, then you simply go and do it and reduce their cap hold they might have on us.

There's a lot of things you can do whatever way you want to go about it.

The important part is that these issues shouldn't impede our team of creating cap space if the opportunity to sign a player of interest is available.

[Lucky17]

I mean, does anyone really think that DeAndre Jordan or LaMarcus Aldridge will give up a 5th year of max money to sign with Boston? I don't. Not when both of their current franchises are much closer to a ring than Boston would be should either (not both, not enough cap space) come aboard.

They won't sign long term deals anyway because they want to take advantage of next years projected cap increase.  You'll probably see 1+PO so that they are FA again next year.

Even so, why would Aldridge or Jordan jump ship to a lesser team?

BTW, I believe max contracts for Jordan and Aldridge would be 30% of the cap, or roughly $20 million.

[Lucky17]

4) S&T using $12.9mm Rondo exception + future #2 for a scoring wing (M Ellis, Middleton)

You have to renounce that trade exception to create the cap space to do the free agent signings you mentioned.

Yep.

Which is why I maintain that the Celtics will not have big cap space this offseason. Ainge will use the TPEs, MLE, and keep cap holds from his UFAs in the event that he can use them in sign and trade.

You're basing this off on? You renounce the TPEs, trade/stretch Wallace, you'd have $29-$32+ million give or take in cap space.

See my edit above re: UFA cap holds.

Ainge would have to renounce a lot of potential assets to free up the cap space to lure a max free agent. It seems counter to his style.

Renouncing UFA cap holds is pointless to consider. If you're signing a free-agent you're after, you renounce them. It's really not worth giving thought to that.

The only one you wouldn't do is Crowder solely because his cap hold is very small, and you can sign him to a bigger contract after all our FAs signings, if any.

I think that's only if you a) are not bringing Bass or Jerebko back and b) not interested in signing and trading them to other teams for additional assets. I think both have value on the market.

I guess the question is whether Boston can land a franchise cornerstone in FA using cap space, or whether it's better to use the Rondo and Prince TPEs, sign and trade options, and the MLE to build a better roster. I think the second route is a more prudent use of assets.

I don't think you have to favor any one route to consider potential cap space. If a free-agent you're actually interested in wants to sign, none of those issues should impede the signing... and more importantly, you still retain your future assets.

And yes, the interest in bringing Bass and/or Jerebko is very very small to us. That said, their cap hold is quite higher than whatever we'd be willing to retain them for, so renouncing their rights is not that important once is all said and done.

And if the interest is in keeping Bass or Jerebko, and have enough left over to do the moves you want, then you simply go and do it and reduce their cap hold they might have on us.

There's a lot of things you can do whatever way you want to go about it.

The important part is that these issues shouldn't impede our team of creating cap space if the opportunity to sign a player of interest is available.

Well, yeah. There are a lot of options.

But if freeing up the maximum amount of cap space possible is the path to take, it involves burning a lot of assets that I believe a GM like Ainge could actually leverage into a greater return.

If Ainge does get signals from a free agent that Boston is high on the list, I'm sure we're see him clear that cap space. But that course of option seems counter to Ainge's MO.

I seem to remember Ainge commenting on how spending cap space yielded a comparatively poor return, because you have to overbid/outbid the competition. I'll see if I can find it.

[bcgenuis]

4) S&T using $12.9mm Rondo exception + future #2 for a scoring wing (M Ellis, Middleton)

You have to renounce that trade exception to create the cap space to do the free agent signings you mentioned.

Yep.

Which is why I maintain that the Celtics will not have big cap space this offseason. Ainge will use the TPEs, MLE, and keep cap holds from his UFAs in the event that he can use them in sign and trade.

You're basing this off on? You renounce the TPEs, trade/stretch Wallace, you'd have $29-$32+ million give or take in cap space.

See my edit above re: UFA cap holds.

Ainge would have to renounce a lot of potential assets to free up the cap space to lure a max free agent. It seems counter to his style.

Renouncing UFA cap holds is pointless to consider. If you're signing a free-agent you're after, you renounce them. It's really not worth giving thought to that.

The only one you wouldn't do is Crowder solely because his cap hold is very small, and you can sign him to a bigger contract after all our FAs signings, if any.

I think that's only if you a) are not bringing Bass or Jerebko back and b) not interested in signing and trading them to other teams for additional assets. I think both have value on the market.

I guess the question is whether Boston can land a franchise cornerstone in FA using cap space, or whether it's better to use the Rondo and Prince TPEs, sign and trade options, and the MLE to build a better roster. I think the second route is a more prudent use of assets.

I don't think you have to favor any one route to consider potential cap space. If a free-agent you're actually interested in wants to sign, none of those issues should impede the signing... and more importantly, you still retain your future assets.

And yes, the interest in bringing Bass and/or Jerebko is very very small to us. That said, their cap hold is quite higher than whatever we'd be willing to retain them for, so renouncing their rights is not that important once is all said and done.

And if the interest is in keeping Bass or Jerebko, and have enough left over to do the moves you want, then you simply go and do it and reduce their cap hold they might have on us.

There's a lot of things you can do whatever way you want to go about it.

The important part is that these issues shouldn't impede our team of creating cap space if the opportunity to sign a player of interest is available.

Well, yeah. There are a lot of options.

But if freeing up the maximum amount of cap space possible is the path to take, it involves burning a lot of assets that I believe a GM like Ainge could actually leverage into a greater return.

If Ainge does get signals from a free agent that Boston is high on the list, I'm sure we're see him clear that cap space. But that course of option seems counter to Ainge's MO.

I seem to remember Ainge commenting on how spending cap space yielded a comparatively poor return, because you have to overbid/outbid the competition. I'll see if I can find it.

That probably is true, but then what you are hoping for as a GM is the disgruntled player.  So that you can take the assets you have sitting around such as draft picks, TPEs (which cannot be combined), or potential young talent to trade for that disgruntled star. 

True it happened for us with KG.  And it does happen occasionally but not as often as you think. And then you are still bidding against other teams. 

So IMO if you can land an All-Star by spending your cap space you make that move.

[Lucky17]

This isn't quite the quote, but it's related. From Jan 22:

http://portlandtribune.com/pt/12-sports/247696-115577-for-celtics-chief-exec-ainge-only-thing-constant-is-change

“This is the first time in Celtic history we’ve ever had cap space,” Ainge says. “I’ve never been huge on cap space. I’ve liked to use it for trading as opposed to signing big-time free agents. I’m not sure how realistic that is, but we have a lot of flexibility and we could be very opportunistic.”

Does Ainge intend to use the cap space to acquire big-time players this summer, or will he wait until 2016, when the free-agent market is expected to be more expansive?

“It all depends on what opportunities are presented,” he says. “We’re going to be very active between now and the trade deadline, and we’ll be active this summer. What’s really important is to remain patient and smart and not just do something because we have cap space. We have to make the right decisions with what we have.”

[BleedGreen1989]

I think we need to lower our expectations. We will be lucky to get one of an Aldridge Love type free agent. It's unlikely we can add Aldridge and Jordan.

Agreed.

People are getting way ahead of themselves and turning their nose up at what will likely be the names in our shopping bin.

[Beat LA]

I wouldn't bother going after any of those guys, tbh, because they're not coming here, anyway, imo.  The only free agents which whom we should concern ourselves with are our own, and a more realistic target like KJ McDaniels, especially if Crowder leaves.  I'd still go after McDaniels anyway, though.

[bcgenuis]

Let's look at what type of roster, team, Ainge and Stevens want to build.
 
Primary roles

5- Defensive
4- Stretch with an Inside Game - combine Sully and Olynyk
3- Creator and Scorer
2- 3+D
1- Facilitator and Scorer

Who on the roster fits these descriptions and who can we trade for or sign that fits this model.

5 - we do not have a defensive center on the roster
4 - we do not have a complete player on the roster
3 - Turner is a poor mans version of this description
2 - the D is there the 3 not so much
1 - IT can score (sometimes), but can he facilitate and hold up against other starters?

[Msimonetta2]

Ok here is probably a dumb question, how can we operate over the salary cap of 66 million next year or any year for that matter?  Can we use the tpe's, and then go over the 66 by signing crowder, using mid level exception?

[Lucky17]

Let's look at what type of roster, team, Ainge and Stevens want to build.
 
Primary roles

5- Defensive
4- Stretch with an Inside Game - combine Sully and Olynyk
3- Creator and Scorer
2- 3+D
1- Facilitator and Scorer

Who on the roster fits these descriptions and who can we trade for or sign that fits this model.

5 - we do not have a defensive center on the roster
4 - we do not have a complete player on the roster
3 - Turner is a poor mans version of this description
2 - the D is there the 3 not so much
1 - IT can score (sometimes), but can he facilitate and hold up against other starters?

I certainly won't disagree that there's a ton of work to be done on the roster.

But I think that pigeonholing certain types of players into specific lineup spots forces Ainge's hand. For example, if a stretch five or a defensive-minded 4 became available on the market, would Ainge pass because he wanted those roles reversed? Or a distributing wing player who can score and create from the 2 or the 3, leaving Bradley or Smart to 3 and D roles from the PG position?

I don't envy Ainge's task. He's has so many options right now, it's got to be hard to choose just one.