The ABC announcers and the Refs

[Kuberski33]

What I think happened was the refs realized at half time that they were blowing the whistle too often.

On the one hand, it's good that NBA refs often try and "fix" things when they realize their calls are a little out of line.  How many times do you see huge free throw disparities in a first half even out in the 2nd?

On the other hand, it's pretty ridiculous that NBA refs commonly need to "fix" things like that.  The infamous "make up call" doesn't really seem to exist in other sports like it does in the NBA.

Mike

I remember at one point Van Gundy & co where talking about constantly fouling a bad FT shooter and one of them (correctly in my mind) made the point that people forget the NBA is in the entertainment business.  To me this is a telling comment on the approach that refs take.  No one wants a foul fest in a nationally televised game - and no one wants superstars fouled out of games. 

I do think the refs had pretty much decided out of the gate that they wouldn't let the Celtics develop any sort of defensive advantage based upon letting their guys try to get physical with LeBron, Irving and Love.  Things went a little too far and they corrected. 

I would assume that this pattern continues for the rest of the series.  LeBron will get lots of calls and will be able to get away with much more defensively than the average player -  and Smart, Crowder & co will have really dig in to focus on playing solid man to man D without fouling.  This is all part of that real small 'margin for error' that the Celtics have to deal with.

[PhoSita]

Van Gundy basically said that fans want to see the stars play, and on 50/50 calls, the best players should get the benefit of the doubt.

Breen disagreed.  I agree with Breen, but at the same time, I'm sure that I'd be taking JVG's side if KG had picked up his 6th foul on a moving screen in the 4th quarter of a close game, you know?

Yeah, I recall feeling that way back when the Celtics were the contender bully roughing up the younger playoff wannabes.  Of course, back then, the Celtics played great defense (and offense) in part by fouling all game long and forcing the refs to pick and choose.

Some of the calls in the game were pretty bad -- especially the missed goaltend.

As for the foul calls, I think it's important to remember the other side.  How many times did the refs give the Celtics leeway when they were bumping and hacking and getting up close on LeBron, Kyrie, or whomever?

I think what sometimes looks like a ridiculous ticky tack call, or the lack of a call on the other end, can be alternatively seen as a concession by the refs because they've already looked the other one too many times in a row.

[rondohondo]

Van Gundy basically said that fans want to see the stars play, and on 50/50 calls, the best players should get the benefit of the doubt.

Breen disagreed.  I agree with Breen, but at the same time, I'm sure that I'd be taking JVG's side if KG had picked up his 6th foul on a moving screen in the 4th quarter of a close game, you know?

If the NBA doesn't want their star players fouling out , they should just take away fouling out of the game . Maybe after foul # 6 (if the team isn't over the limit) you get a free throw and the ball back . Or if you are over the limit get 3 ft's instead of 2 .

That would be much more fair than just not calling fouls on stars because the NBA doesn't want their stars fouling out

[D Dub]

Here’s some arithmetic for the analytics guru’s here.  Let’s just look at the three obvious ones that the announcers talked about in the first half.

There were two non-calls LBJ strips, both leading to Cav buckets(2+2) while the C’s were in the bonus (1+1+1+1).  The LBJ goal-tend (+2), and finally the inexplicable decision to reset the shot clock when Lebron gets trapped & bounces it off Jae’s leg (+3).  Here’s what happens when you add up the point differential from those three plays:

(2+2)+(1+1+1+1)+(2+3)= 13

Anyone remember the final score?  Cavs 113  C’s 100

Couldn’t one could make the case that these three terrible first half calls --calls so bad they couldn’t even be ignored by the telecast crew-- were the difference between a really competitive game going down to the wire and the Cavs essentially blowing us out?

[fairweatherfan]

Here’s some arithmetic for the analytics guru’s here.  Let’s just look at the three obvious ones that the announcers talked about in the first half.

There were two non-calls LBJ strips, both leading to Cav buckets(2+2) while the C’s were in the bonus (1+1+1+1).  The LBJ goal-tend (+2), and finally the inexplicable decision to reset the shot clock when Lebron gets trapped & bounces it off Jae’s leg (+3).  Here’s what happens when you add up the point differential from those three plays:

(2+2)+(1+1+1+1)+(2+3)= 13

Anyone remember the final score?  Cavs 113  C’s 100

Couldn’t one could make the case that these three terrible first half calls --calls so bad they couldn’t even be ignored by the telecast crew-- were the difference between a really competitive game going down to the wire and the Cavs essentially blowing us out?

Not unless you also tally up all the points we received from bad calls/no-calls in our favor, as well as accounting for points we wouldn't have gotten if not for the calls you name (for example IT got a basket immediately after the goaltending no-call, so it didn't affect the margin).  You also can't assume we'd make every free throw you're awarding us.

[D Dub]

Not unless you also tally up all the points we received from bad calls/no-calls in our favor

Can you think of any examples? 

Here’s some arithmetic for the analytics guru’s here.  Let’s just look at the three obvious ones that the announcers talked about in the first half.

There were two non-calls LBJ strips, both leading to Cav buckets(2+2) while the C’s were in the bonus (1+1+1+1).  The LBJ goal-tend (+2), and finally the inexplicable decision to reset the shot clock when Lebron gets trapped & bounces it off Jae’s leg (+3).  Here’s what happens when you add up the point differential from those three plays:

(2+2)+(1+1+1+1)+(2+3)= 13

Anyone remember the final score?  Cavs 113  C’s 100

Couldn’t one could make the case that these three terrible first half calls --calls so bad they couldn’t even be ignored by the telecast crew-- were the difference between a really competitive game going down to the wire and the Cavs essentially blowing us out?

accounting for points we wouldn't have gotten if not for the calls you name (for example IT got a basket immediately after the goaltending no-call, so it didn't affect the margin).  You also can't assume we'd make every free throw you're awarding us.

Good points, not that they exonerate the officiating, but correct none the less.

[fairweatherfan]

Not unless you also tally up all the points we received from bad calls/no-calls in our favor

Can you think of any examples?

Don't need to, you asked for an evaluation, and if you're trying to make an honest, objective assessment, then that's what you'd have to do to get there.  If you just want to make a one-sided argument that we were cheated, then you're probably good as-is.

I didn't like the officiating either, for what it's worth, but your analysis is probably more biased than anything the refs did.

[Finkelskyhook]

The saddest commentary was said by Jeff VanGundy in the first quarter when the messiah committed and obvious hack on an entry pass..."They already called one foul on Lebron James....Do they expect a second one? In Cleveland?"  As an NBA sock puppet...VanGundy may have said it in jest....But it's been going on for years.

The C's are overmatched...It'd be nice if they actually got to compete 5-on-5.

[Vermont Green]

If the NBA/individual refs are not calling fouls on LeBron because of ratings, I think that is a bad idea.  Just call things as straight as you can.  I appreciate that there are 10-20 calls (or non-calls) in an NBA game that could go either way so I don't expect every game to end up exactly even on calls.

In terms of ratings, imaging if they had made the calls on LeBron and somehow we stole a win.  Think the ratings would be good for games 3 and 4 in Boston?  Plus wouldn't that lead to at least one more playoff game to televise?

Now if it is a close game in the 4th quarter, I don't like to see a top player foul out on a tic-tac play so it is a very fine line these refs are trying to navigate.  I just think that the NBA has it wrong if they think protecting these top players the whole game is actually making their product better.

[D Dub]

Not unless you also tally up all the points we received from bad calls/no-calls in our favor

Can you think of any examples?

Don't need to, you asked for an evaluation, and if you're trying to make an honest, objective assessment, then that's what you'd have to do to get there.  If you just want to make a one-sided argument that we were cheated, then you're probably good as-is.

I didn't like the officiating either, for what it's worth, but your analysis is probably more biased than anything the refs did.

Hahaha!  Nice dodge, TP

[ddb]

incredibly frustrating.  LeBron gets the superstar treatment.  Naturally.  he should have had 2 quick fouls and been out of the game..  the Kyrie 3 was a 2...  and the Jonas "2" was a 3.    all just little things that change momentum and effect the game,

Celts don't stand a chance... but that's okay.  as long as they fight hard.  this is added bonus basketball for us C's fans

[LilRip]

I like JVG on the mic. For me, he tells it like it is without the usual bias of hometown announcers.

And I hate when Lebron (in particular) gets preferential treatment. Stars get calls. I think that's a reality we have to accept by now. They work the refs and their superb play is generally what earns them the benefit of the doubt in 50-50 calls. But Lebron consistently gets away with so much that it's infuriating.

[jpotter33]

Just to throw a little more fuel on this fire:

https://twitter.com/EthanJSkolnick/status/589931109770756097

JR is really trying to complain about the refs when he's on a team with Lebron James? Cool story, bro.

[kraidstar]

the only things worse than the NBA refs and their masters are the people who apologize for them and say we should just accept it. this is a huge part of the problem.

i know for a fact this league is crooked, not only by the obvious stuff i can see with my own eyes, but because i have a friend of a friend who used to work for the league office.

and it's not just as though the refs are erasing a basket here and there; some of these plays are big momentum-changers, and these calls erode the confidence of the team getting hosed, while lebron on the other hand knows the refs have his back and will help out his team whenever they get into trouble.

all he has to do is start hacking and he'll get some free fast-break points. the cavs do it, the heat did it, jordan's bulls did it. lebron is allowed to play a completely different style of defense because he knows he'll get away with it, and that's an enormous advantage. instead of him being sent to the bench for a crappy replacement, he's allowed to play "super defense" and maul evan turner.

it's a joke, and it's multi-billion dollar fraud.

[kozlodoev]

The saddest commentary was said by Jeff VanGundy in the first quarter when the messiah committed and obvious hack on an entry pass..."They already called one foul on Lebron James....Do they expect a second one? In Cleveland?"  As an NBA sock puppet...VanGundy may have said it in jest....But it's been going on for years.

The C's are overmatched...It'd be nice if they actually got to compete 5-on-5.

There was also the follow-up by someone that he'd rather that LBJ didn't foul out because fans have come to seen him play.