The ABC announcers and the Refs

[Moranis]

Anyone "watch" the NCAA tournament.  I mean I put watch in quotes because most of the games were unwatchable with all the foul calls.  Call the major/clear fouls and let the ticky tack ones go.  Makes for a much more watchable and enjoyable experience. 

[D Dub]

the only things worse than the NBA refs and their masters are the people who apologize for them and say we should just accept it. this is a huge part of the problem.

i know for a fact this league is crooked, not only by the obvious stuff i can see with my own eyes, but because i have a friend of a friend who used to work for the league office.

and it's not just as though the refs are erasing a basket here and there; some of these plays are big momentum-changers, and these calls erode the confidence of the team getting hosed, while lebron on the other hand knows the refs have his back and will help out his team whenever they get into trouble.

all he has to do is start hacking and he'll get some free fast-break points. the cavs do it, the heat did it, jordan's bulls did it. lebron is allowed to play a completely different style of defense because he knows he'll get away with it, and that's an enormous advantage. instead of him being sent to the bench for a crappy replacement, he's allowed to play "super defense" and maul evan turner.

it's a joke, and it's multi-billion dollar fraud.

TP for the insight, kraidstar

[celticsclay]

the only things worse than the NBA refs and their masters are the people who apologize for them and say we should just accept it. this is a huge part of the problem.

i know for a fact this league is crooked, not only by the obvious stuff i can see with my own eyes, but because i have a friend of a friend who used to work for the league office.

and it's not just as though the refs are erasing a basket here and there; some of these plays are big momentum-changers, and these calls erode the confidence of the team getting hosed, while lebron on the other hand knows the refs have his back and will help out his team whenever they get into trouble.

all he has to do is start hacking and he'll get some free fast-break points. the cavs do it, the heat did it, jordan's bulls did it. lebron is allowed to play a completely different style of defense because he knows he'll get away with it, and that's an enormous advantage. instead of him being sent to the bench for a crappy replacement, he's allowed to play "super defense" and maul evan turner.

it's a joke, and it's multi-billion dollar fraud.

TP for the insight, kraidstar

I agree with this. I was optimistic things would improve under Silver with the reports cards for refs increasing transparency. The first game of lebron's playoff career under Silver was not very inspiring. That goaltend and foul call on zeller were completely egregious.

[j804]

J.R. Smith: Can't touch Avery Bradley because refs treat him like Kobe Bryant http://t.co/lsAUhfBYx5

Lol really

[rondohondo]

J.R. Smith: Can't touch Avery Bradley because refs treat him like Kobe Bryant http://t.co/lsAUhfBYx5

Lol really

look at his hair cut, it screams Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline., same with shumpert

[Finkelskyhook]

I like JVG on the mic. For me, he tells it like it is without the usual bias of hometown announcers.

And I hate when Lebron (in particular) gets preferential treatment. Stars get calls. I think that's a reality we have to accept by now. They work the refs and their superb play is generally what earns them the benefit of the doubt in 50-50 calls. But Lebron consistently gets away with so much that it's infuriating.

JVG sounds strikingly on the mic like JBL sounds on Monday nights.

Sad part is the results of only one of the events are supposed to be pre-determined.

[ChainSmokingLikeDino]

Here’s some arithmetic for the analytics guru’s here.  Let’s just look at the three obvious ones that the announcers talked about in the first half.

There were two non-calls LBJ strips, both leading to Cav buckets(2+2) while the C’s were in the bonus (1+1+1+1).  The LBJ goal-tend (+2), and finally the inexplicable decision to reset the shot clock when Lebron gets trapped & bounces it off Jae’s leg (+3).  Here’s what happens when you add up the point differential from those three plays:

(2+2)+(1+1+1+1)+(2+3)= 13

Anyone remember the final score?  Cavs 113  C’s 100

Couldn’t one could make the case that these three terrible first half calls --calls so bad they couldn’t even be ignored by the telecast crew-- were the difference between a really competitive game going down to the wire and the Cavs essentially blowing us out?

Not unless you also tally up all the points we received from bad calls/no-calls in our favor, as well as accounting for points we wouldn't have gotten if not for the calls you name (for example IT got a basket immediately after the goaltending no-call, so it didn't affect the margin).  You also can't assume we'd make every free throw you're awarding us.

You can't play what if like that. It is impossible. And, yes, we got some calls too. But it isn't like any of those plays are just substituted in and what occurred after would be the same. It wouldn;t be.

But, if you really want to look at it, just one example, the bolded goaltend above: The ball was blocked out of bounds. The Celtics retained possession and scored (the Isiah Thomas high off the glass, wild body control drive, right?), so there would be no swing there as The Celtics scored on that possession. So, if you are going to play this game at least get it right.

[ChainSmokingLikeDino]

the only things worse than the NBA refs and their masters are the people who apologize for them and say we should just accept it. this is a huge part of the problem.

i know for a fact this league is crooked, not only by the obvious stuff i can see with my own eyes, but because i have a friend of a friend who used to work for the league office.

and it's not just as though the refs are erasing a basket here and there; some of these plays are big momentum-changers, and these calls erode the confidence of the team getting hosed, while lebron on the other hand knows the refs have his back and will help out his team whenever they get into trouble.

all he has to do is start hacking and he'll get some free fast-break points. the cavs do it, the heat did it, jordan's bulls did it. lebron is allowed to play a completely different style of defense because he knows he'll get away with it, and that's an enormous advantage. instead of him being sent to the bench for a crappy replacement, he's allowed to play "super defense" and maul evan turner.

it's a joke, and it's multi-billion dollar fraud.

Not apologizing for the league, but why do you watch or care about The NBA if it is such a joke and fraud?

And, please do share a few tidbits of corruption, you can't tease us with yoru certainty and not give a few juicy examples.

[Ogaju]

Halfway into the 2nd quarter the announcers had an interesting back and fourth.

Basically, about 3 replays indicated Lebron getting away with blatant fouls.. which prompted this discussion..

I think it was Mike Breen: "Lebron could easily have 3-4 fouls at this point"  instead he only had 1 or maybe 2.

Van Gundy responds with something like "Arent you associated with the NBA? I dont want to see Lebron sitting!"

Does anyone else have a problem with this?  Van Gundy is a very candid person, and he is right.. him, and the ABC crew, are 100% in bed with the NBA, and they all benefit from Lebron staying on the court.  He is literally confirming the conspiracy is 100% real.. He said it himself when he questioned Breen who dared to openly say Lebron should have more fouls called on him.

Did we all think Lebron wouldnt get fouls called on him, yes.. we all did. But it sucks to see it actually happening.  He's getting away with blatant hacks and goal tends. We are conditioned by the NBA to believe its OK that superstars get all the calls. 

Just so happens our team has zero all-stars and will not benefit from this unwritten rule.

I really hope to see a more fairly officiated game. The Cavs have some amazing all-star talent.... they simply do not need the refs help. Lets see some fair games, if we get beat by the Cavs thats fine, but I dont want to get destroyed by them because the refs are helping them as much as they did today.

And I would like to see some more attention being put on the refs to call the game more fairly.

Welcome to the WWNBA. Look this has been going on since the Magic/Bird era. I am not sure if it happened before but it certainly has happened since the Magic/Bird era. It is absolutely impossible to beat a team with superstars when the superstar who is already superior to the other players gets the benefit of calls. It is amazing that ALMOST ever NBA star makes it to the NBA all defensive team when all they do is hack players like everyone else. Have you ever seen the video of the phantom foul on the kid that attended UMass I cannot remember his name. He was miles away from the action yet a foul was called on him. It is so blatant that even announcers acknowledge that rookies get called for fouls that belong to veterans or that would never be called on veterans. We the fans know it, we accept it, and we just refuse to do anything about it. Before this series began I made a post that IF Cs want to have any chance of beating Cleveland they should send a video of LeBron pushing off on almost every drive to the basket. That post did not last on the Topics page, I guess yall thought it was a joke, or maybe you just agreed with it. Well, here we are.

[Ogaju]

the only things worse than the NBA refs and their masters are the people who apologize for them and say we should just accept it. this is a huge part of the problem.

i know for a fact this league is crooked, not only by the obvious stuff i can see with my own eyes, but because i have a friend of a friend who used to work for the league office.

and it's not just as though the refs are erasing a basket here and there; some of these plays are big momentum-changers, and these calls erode the confidence of the team getting hosed, while lebron on the other hand knows the refs have his back and will help out his team whenever they get into trouble.

all he has to do is start hacking and he'll get some free fast-break points. the cavs do it, the heat did it, jordan's bulls did it. lebron is allowed to play a completely different style of defense because he knows he'll get away with it, and that's an enormous advantage. instead of him being sent to the bench for a crappy replacement, he's allowed to play "super defense" and maul evan turner.

it's a joke, and it's multi-billion dollar fraud.

This !!!

[Ogaju]

Here’s some arithmetic for the analytics guru’s here.  Let’s just look at the three obvious ones that the announcers talked about in the first half.

There were two non-calls LBJ strips, both leading to Cav buckets(2+2) while the C’s were in the bonus (1+1+1+1).  The LBJ goal-tend (+2), and finally the inexplicable decision to reset the shot clock when Lebron gets trapped & bounces it off Jae’s leg (+3).  Here’s what happens when you add up the point differential from those three plays:

(2+2)+(1+1+1+1)+(2+3)= 13

Anyone remember the final score?  Cavs 113  C’s 100

Couldn’t one could make the case that these three terrible first half calls --calls so bad they couldn’t even be ignored by the telecast crew-- were the difference between a really competitive game going down to the wire and the Cavs essentially blowing us out?

Not unless you also tally up all the points we received from bad calls/no-calls in our favor, as well as accounting for points we wouldn't have gotten if not for the calls you name (for example IT got a basket immediately after the goaltending no-call, so it didn't affect the margin).  You also can't assume we'd make every free throw you're awarding us.

You can't play what if like that. It is impossible. And, yes, we got some calls too. But it isn't like any of those plays are just substituted in and what occurred after would be the same. It wouldn;t be.

But, if you really want to look at it, just one example, the bolded goaltend above: The ball was blocked out of bounds. The Celtics retained possession and scored (the Isiah Thomas high off the glass, wild body control drive, right?), so there would be no swing there as The Celtics scored on that possession. So, if you are going to play this game at least get it right.

Yeah but we have had to exert unnecessary energy to get points that we should already have. You think that does not add up?

[D Dub]

But, if you really want to look at it, just one example, the bolded goaltend above: The ball was blocked out of bounds. The Celtics retained possession and scored (the Isiah Thomas high off the glass, wild body control drive, right?), so there would be no swing there as The Celtics scored on that possession. So, if you are going to play this game at least get it right.

 
Lemme get this straight.  You've read the thread & now taken the time to login & chastise a 2 pt mistake made in a post by some random dude on internet...yet...you have no comment on the effect the refs had on a game that the NBA's own telecast crew couldn't ignore commenting on?

 

[fairweatherfan]

Here’s some arithmetic for the analytics guru’s here.  Let’s just look at the three obvious ones that the announcers talked about in the first half.

There were two non-calls LBJ strips, both leading to Cav buckets(2+2) while the C’s were in the bonus (1+1+1+1).  The LBJ goal-tend (+2), and finally the inexplicable decision to reset the shot clock when Lebron gets trapped & bounces it off Jae’s leg (+3).  Here’s what happens when you add up the point differential from those three plays:

(2+2)+(1+1+1+1)+(2+3)= 13

Anyone remember the final score?  Cavs 113  C’s 100

Couldn’t one could make the case that these three terrible first half calls --calls so bad they couldn’t even be ignored by the telecast crew-- were the difference between a really competitive game going down to the wire and the Cavs essentially blowing us out?

Not unless you also tally up all the points we received from bad calls/no-calls in our favor, as well as accounting for points we wouldn't have gotten if not for the calls you name (for example IT got a basket immediately after the goaltending no-call, so it didn't affect the margin).  You also can't assume we'd make every free throw you're awarding us.

You can't play what if like that. It is impossible. And, yes, we got some calls too. But it isn't like any of those plays are just substituted in and what occurred after would be the same. It wouldn;t be.

But, if you really want to look at it, just one example, the bolded goaltend above: The ball was blocked out of bounds. The Celtics retained possession and scored (the Isiah Thomas high off the glass, wild body control drive, right?), so there would be no swing there as The Celtics scored on that possession. So, if you are going to play this game at least get it right.

Are you talking to me or D Dub?  Because I mentioned exactly the same example you did.  I also agree that you can't model how the game would've played out differently, I just said if you're going to do the "these calls cost us X points" thing you at least have to do it both ways, and not assume every FT goes in either.

[hwangjini_1]

the only things worse than the NBA refs and their masters are the people who apologize for them and say we should just accept it. this is a huge part of the problem.

i know for a fact this league is crooked, not only by the obvious stuff i can see with my own eyes, but because i have a friend of a friend who used to work for the league office.

and it's not just as though the refs are erasing a basket here and there; some of these plays are big momentum-changers, and these calls erode the confidence of the team getting hosed, while lebron on the other hand knows the refs have his back and will help out his team whenever they get into trouble.

all he has to do is start hacking and he'll get some free fast-break points. the cavs do it, the heat did it, jordan's bulls did it. lebron is allowed to play a completely different style of defense because he knows he'll get away with it, and that's an enormous advantage. instead of him being sent to the bench for a crappy replacement, he's allowed to play "super defense" and maul evan turner.

it's a joke, and it's multi-billion dollar fraud.

Not apologizing for the league, but why do you watch or care about The NBA if it is such a joke and fraud?

And, please do share a few tidbits of corruption, you can't tease us with yoru certainty and not give a few juicy examples.

good god, dont tell me celtic thug is making a comeback here. 

[jeezem]

It affects the tempo and how the players play on the floor.  Are you going to chase down the ball and beat James to it, if you're Evan Turner, or are you basically going to let him get it and dunk it off your head, because you know e'll just push you out of the way, and they'll call a foul on you, and he'll get an +1 if you even try to make the play?

It wouldn't surprise me, if I went back and looked at the games the celtics played at the end of the season, if there was some funny stuff there too - Celtics are a big TV market.  And I'm a Celtics fan, but come on.