Enjoy the quick fix. Danny set this franchise back.

[PhoSita]

If it makes the op feel any better, next year the east should be better (barring inevitable injuries) and in turn, the Celtics will probably have a lesser chance of making the playoffs (barring any summer fireworks) and thus upping the tanking probability.

-Indiana will have Paul George fully healthy and a lottery pick. I'm predicting they'll make a push for Lance Stephenson this summer with his value as low as it is (Feel free to disagree)
-Milwaukee will have year 3 of the Greek Freak and Jabari will be back and they've got other young talent that will get better (I predict they'll retain Middleton and they'll work things out with MCW).
-Miami will have Bosh/Wade/Whiteside/Dragic/Deng/McRoberts at full strength next year, That potentially is a deadly 6 that never played a minute together this year.
-Detroit will have their first full year post Josh Smith, year 4 of Andre Drummond, year 2 of SVG, Reggie Jackson, Brandon Jennings, KCP, and so forth. They'll be better. I left Monroe out because I don't think they'll re-sign him.
-Orlando has a nice young core around them and if they get a competent coach and make good on their pick (Justice Winslow anyone?), they could be a surprise next season.

Brooklyn and Charlotte will keep fighting even though they aren't that good, but they'll be in playoff contention regardless because they aren't aiming to tank.

Factor in Atlanta, Cleveland, Chicago, Toronto and Washington at the top of the east, and I think things will be harder next year for the Celtics. Not to sound like a Debbie Downer though. I love this team and love that they fight every night.

As much as I don't want it, I do think the push for tanking could come back with the vengeance next year.

You may be right, but I feel like every year we expect the East to get better and .. well ... the Celtics are probably making the playoffs.

[DarkAzcura]

If it makes the op feel any better, next year the east should be better (barring inevitable injuries) and in turn, the Celtics will probably have a lesser chance of making the playoffs (barring any summer fireworks) and thus upping the tanking probability.

-Indiana will have Paul George fully healthy and a lottery pick. I'm predicting they'll make a push for Lance Stephenson this summer with his value as low as it is (Feel free to disagree)
-Milwaukee will have year 3 of the Greek Freak and Jabari will be back and they've got other young talent that will get better (I predict they'll retain Middleton and they'll work things out with MCW).
-Miami will have Bosh/Wade/Whiteside/Dragic/Deng/McRoberts at full strength next year, That potentially is a deadly 6 that never played a minute together this year.
-Detroit will have their first full year post Josh Smith, year 4 of Andre Drummond, year 2 of SVG, Reggie Jackson, Brandon Jennings, KCP, and so forth. They'll be better. I left Monroe out because I don't think they'll re-sign him.
-Orlando has a nice young core around them and if they get a competent coach and make good on their pick (Justice Winslow anyone?), they could be a surprise next season.

Brooklyn and Charlotte will keep fighting even though they aren't that good, but they'll be in playoff contention regardless because they aren't aiming to tank.

Factor in Atlanta, Cleveland, Chicago, Toronto and Washington at the top of the east, and I think things will be harder next year for the Celtics. Not to sound like a Debbie Downer though. I love this team and love that they fight every night.

As much as I don't want it, I do think the push for tanking could come back with the vengeance next year.

No offense but I saw posts like this last season when some argued that we would play better this season, and these posts always struck me as odd, haha.

Your points are presented in this vacuum where somehow every other team shows improvement but somehow our team doesn't, even though we've shown the most improvement from our trades/deadline moves in the short term. Logically, it really wouldn't make much sense for most of those teams (other than Indy) on your list to improve greatly over the summer from cohesion while the Celtics somehow fall back and get stuck in the mud. This Celtics team also has young talent that projects to be better next season.

[PhoSita]

The Celtics project to be better next season, but it's by no means guaranteed.  Eighth seeds have a tendency to fall back into the trash heap, especially when they lack true stars and have worse injury luck than the year before,

[DarkAzcura]

The Celtics project to be better next season, but it's by no means guaranteed.  Eighth seeds have a tendency to fall back into the trash heap, especially when they lack true stars and have worse injury luck than the year before,

Actually that's not true at all. There was a rough statistical study performed that showed ~35 win teams have a greater chance of improving their record over the course of 5 years than a team stuck in the mud between 20-25 wins. There have been far more examples of teams winning 35-40 wins taking the next step than teams below that taking the next step. Indiana a few years ago. Chicago a few years ago. Atlanta has been riding the fence of mediocrity until finally finding the right players and system. Washington and Toronto were teams that also made late season runs last year and see themselves as top 4-5 seeds the very next year.

When was the last time a team at the bottom of the pile grew into a real contender? SAS? OKC? Pretty small list. One of them had to draft the greatest PF of all time to pair with one of the best centers of all time waiting in queue. The other team had to go on one of the greatest draft runs of hits in three years (Durant, Westbrook, Harden, Ibaka...a draft run that is almost impossible to replicate, imo). It's really hard to become a contender by tanking.

Anyway, my point was not at all that it was guaranteed. Only that it is a complete logical fallacy to assume the Celtics are more likely to be worse next year because of the natural improvement of every team behind them. The Celtics aren't a team full of middle aged veterans here. They are also a young team with tons of upside. If people can make logical leaps for Orlando, Bucks, Detroit, etc, there really is no reason to be so negative about the Celtics upside and ability next year.

[MJohnnyboy]

If it makes the op feel any better, next year the east should be better (barring inevitable injuries) and in turn, the Celtics will probably have a lesser chance of making the playoffs (barring any summer fireworks) and thus upping the tanking probability.

-Indiana will have Paul George fully healthy and a lottery pick. I'm predicting they'll make a push for Lance Stephenson this summer with his value as low as it is (Feel free to disagree)
-Milwaukee will have year 3 of the Greek Freak and Jabari will be back and they've got other young talent that will get better (I predict they'll retain Middleton and they'll work things out with MCW).
-Miami will have Bosh/Wade/Whiteside/Dragic/Deng/McRoberts at full strength next year, That potentially is a deadly 6 that never played a minute together this year.
-Detroit will have their first full year post Josh Smith, year 4 of Andre Drummond, year 2 of SVG, Reggie Jackson, Brandon Jennings, KCP, and so forth. They'll be better. I left Monroe out because I don't think they'll re-sign him.
-Orlando has a nice young core around them and if they get a competent coach and make good on their pick (Justice Winslow anyone?), they could be a surprise next season.

Brooklyn and Charlotte will keep fighting even though they aren't that good, but they'll be in playoff contention regardless because they aren't aiming to tank.

Factor in Atlanta, Cleveland, Chicago, Toronto and Washington at the top of the east, and I think things will be harder next year for the Celtics. Not to sound like a Debbie Downer though. I love this team and love that they fight every night.

As much as I don't want it, I do think the push for tanking could come back with the vengeance next year.

No offense but I saw posts like this last season when some argued that we would play better this season, and these posts always struck me as odd, haha.

Your points are presented in this vacuum where somehow every other team shows improvement but somehow our team doesn't, even though we've shown the most improvement from our trades/deadline moves in the short term. Logically, it really wouldn't make much sense for most of those teams (other than Indy) on your list to improve greatly over the summer from cohesion while the Celtics somehow fall back and get stuck in the mud. This Celtics team also has young talent that projects to be better next season.

Point taken, and I'm not on the tankers side of things. I hope the Celtics can build off of this. I'm just saying there is a possibility things could get more difficult next year. The Celtics have improved, but injuries (Paul George, Chris Bosh, Jabari Parker, Brandon Jennings), mid-season meltdowns (Toronto and Washington) and experiments gone wrong (Lance Stephenson, Michael Carter-Williams) have fit snugly with their mid-season surge this season.

I shouldn't have phrased it like this was likely (that's my bad), but it is a possibility no?

[DarkAzcura]

If it makes the op feel any better, next year the east should be better (barring inevitable injuries) and in turn, the Celtics will probably have a lesser chance of making the playoffs (barring any summer fireworks) and thus upping the tanking probability.

-Indiana will have Paul George fully healthy and a lottery pick. I'm predicting they'll make a push for Lance Stephenson this summer with his value as low as it is (Feel free to disagree)
-Milwaukee will have year 3 of the Greek Freak and Jabari will be back and they've got other young talent that will get better (I predict they'll retain Middleton and they'll work things out with MCW).
-Miami will have Bosh/Wade/Whiteside/Dragic/Deng/McRoberts at full strength next year, That potentially is a deadly 6 that never played a minute together this year.
-Detroit will have their first full year post Josh Smith, year 4 of Andre Drummond, year 2 of SVG, Reggie Jackson, Brandon Jennings, KCP, and so forth. They'll be better. I left Monroe out because I don't think they'll re-sign him.
-Orlando has a nice young core around them and if they get a competent coach and make good on their pick (Justice Winslow anyone?), they could be a surprise next season.

Brooklyn and Charlotte will keep fighting even though they aren't that good, but they'll be in playoff contention regardless because they aren't aiming to tank.

Factor in Atlanta, Cleveland, Chicago, Toronto and Washington at the top of the east, and I think things will be harder next year for the Celtics. Not to sound like a Debbie Downer though. I love this team and love that they fight every night.

As much as I don't want it, I do think the push for tanking could come back with the vengeance next year.

No offense but I saw posts like this last season when some argued that we would play better this season, and these posts always struck me as odd, haha.

Your points are presented in this vacuum where somehow every other team shows improvement but somehow our team doesn't, even though we've shown the most improvement from our trades/deadline moves in the short term. Logically, it really wouldn't make much sense for most of those teams (other than Indy) on your list to improve greatly over the summer from cohesion while the Celtics somehow fall back and get stuck in the mud. This Celtics team also has young talent that projects to be better next season.

Point taken, and I'm not on the tankers side of things. I hope the Celtics can build off of this. I'm just saying there is a possibility things could get more difficult next year. The Celtics have improved, but injuries (Paul George, Chris Bosh, Jabari Parker, Brandon Jennings), mid-season meltdowns (Toronto and Washington) and experiments gone wrong (Lance Stephenson, Michael Carter-Williams) have fit snugly with their surge this season.

I shouldn't have phrased it like this was likely (that's my bad), but it is a possibility no?

No doubt, I understood what you were saying, but like the teams you mentioned (and why they should be better next season), you can paint a similar story for the Celtics. The Celtics traded Rondo and Jeff Green. Have had 22 players. Have made 11 trades. Have not had a full training camp with IT and Crowder. Smart and Young aren't anywhere close to reaching their ceilings as players. Sully and Oly also have some considerable room left in their ceilings.

My point was that while Indy, Detroit, Mil, Orlando, even NY, etc have reasons where you can see why they failed so hard this year and may be better next year, the Celtics also have plenty of reasons for why they should have completely fallen off, but they didn't. While every other team failed to rise up to their tough circumstances, the Celtics found a way to get through it and become a better team (much like Toronto last year after the Gay trade). So if I had to choose which teams will make it more difficult next year in the Eastern conference, it's probably not going to be the ones who had difficulty fighting through their circumstances. Nothing is a guarantee, but the Celtics have plenty of reasons and excuses for why they should have failed.

[MJohnnyboy]

I should mention though that the Celtics could potentially have 3 lottery picks next year. If the east does get better, not only could it put Boston back in the lottery, but the Nets as well. I firmly believe Dallas wont make the playoffs next year with everything that has gone wrong for them and the uprise in young teams like the Jazz and Pelicans could definitely overtake them.

I love this team as it stands, but 3 possible lottery picks next year doesn't sound so bad to me. Think of what the Celtics could do with that.

[PhoSita]

The Celtics project to be better next season, but it's by no means guaranteed.  Eighth seeds have a tendency to fall back into the trash heap, especially when they lack true stars and have worse injury luck than the year before,

Anyway, my point was not at all that it was guaranteed. Only that it is a complete logical fallacy to assume the Celtics are more likely to be worse next year because of the natural improvement of every team behind them. The Celtics aren't a team full of middle aged veterans here. They are also a young team with tons of upside. If people can make logical leaps for Orlando, Bucks, Detroit, etc, there really is no reason to be so negative about the Celtics upside and ability next year.

Yeah, I mostly agree.

But just think back to the last trouble of times the Celtics were the 8th.

2004 - they won 45 games the next year, but still lost in the first round and then backslid the following two years and hit rock bottom in 2007 before trading for KG.

1995 - they  picked in the top 10 the next three years while drafting Toine, Billups, and Pierce ... Including one infamous 15 win season.


I'm just suggesting that being on a trajectory doesn't mean they won't backslide.  Especially since the pieces are probably gonna keep getting shuffled until they find an elite guy or two.

[mctyson]

Is there anyone on our current roster you would rather have than Noel or Embiid? Absolutely the answer is no.

You can make a good case that Marcus Smart is more valuable then both of these players. 

[Chris22]

The Celtics are 21-12 in their last 33 games.
We have cap space and two first round draft picks.
The future is bright.

[Celtics4ever]

You can make a good case that Marcus Smart is more valuable then both of these players.

I think you would have trouble making a good case vs. Noel and this is coming from a guy that loves Marcus and appreciates his intangibles.

http://www.csnne.com/blog/celtics-talk/noel-returned-all-star-break-confidence

He does most of the same things and fill up the stat sheet.  I'd would love to sign him once he is a free agent and bring him home to Boston.  He and Marcus would be a nice pairing.

As for Danny setting the franchise back, I think that he has not.   We won a title and were relevant for a few years.   We are in the playoff hunt again.   He is one of the best GMs in the sport.   I am sure he has a plan, if not a a plan B and C in the works.   

Sully and Oly also have some considerable room left in their ceilings.

  This is a falsehood, both are already skilled and neither has a lot of athletic base to improve on.   

Oly has more than Sully, who is already battling career ending habits.  Oly could get confidence and it would help him.   Sully could lose weight but he is still the same poor athletes that was in the bottom five of his combine in many of the areas tested.   

Only blatant homers, and Tommy is not one of them think Sully has a huge upside at this point.  Even Gorman when recently interviewed was not exactly gushing about his play and Stevens has made it clear that he is a reserve and that he will not alter our defensive DNA and he is being used for rebounding.  Ainge has served him notice and despite being out and being told this it does not look like he has been eating salad.   He refuses to take responsibility blaming it more on his body than his lack of discipline.

[krumeto]

You can make a good case that Marcus Smart is more valuable then both of these players.

I think you would have trouble making a good case vs. Noel and this is coming from a guy that loves Marcus and appreciates his intangibles.

http://www.csnne.com/blog/celtics-talk/noel-returned-all-star-break-confidence

He does most of the same things and fill up the stat sheet.  I'd would love to sign him once he is a free agent and bring him home to Boston.  He and Marcus would be a nice pairing.

I secretly hope Noel gets frustrated with all the losing, declines extension Monroe-style and forces his way back home. Smart and Noel will be devastating on D.

[chlldaddy]

My point is this. Philly has all these top picks. IF they all turn out to be good not only will they not get enough playing time BUT how many leave when their rookie deals are up? If you keep losing year after year they will ALL leave. That is why I have changed my mind about tanking. You need to show improvement PERIOD. The teams that lose year after year and get top draft picks don't create dynasties. I don't want to win I want to KEEP the dynasty going!!!!!!!!!!

[GreenWarrior]

My point is this. Philly has all these top picks. IF they all turn out to be good not only will they not get enough playing time BUT how many leave when their rookie deals are up? If you keep losing year after year they will ALL leave. That is why I have changed my mind about tanking. You need to show improvement PERIOD. The teams that lose year after year and get top draft picks don't create dynasties. I don't want to win I want to KEEP the dynasty going!!!!!!!!!!

I personally think the first mistake a lot of GM's make(and the fans get too caught up in this too)is "trying to build a dynasty".

for all the "dynasties" out there I'm sure every GM/franchise of those dynasties will tell you - "ohh yeah, we planned this perfectly...."

yes, everybody would love to have their team be considered a dynasty. but in reality, it's all about timing, luck & a lot more luck.

fans and GM's shouldn't concern themselves with dynasty-building. it's an exercise in futility because for the most part - they just happen.

[Celtics18]

My point is this. Philly has all these top picks. IF they all turn out to be good not only will they not get enough playing time BUT how many leave when their rookie deals are up? If you keep losing year after year they will ALL leave. That is why I have changed my mind about tanking. You need to show improvement PERIOD. The teams that lose year after year and get top draft picks don't create dynasties. I don't want to win I want to KEEP the dynasty going!!!!!!!!!!

I personally think the first mistake a lot of GM's make(and the fans get too caught up in this too)is "trying to build a dynasty".

for all the "dynasties" out there I'm sure every GM/franchise of those dynasties will tell you - "ohh yeah, we planned this perfectly...."

yes, everybody would love to have their team be considered a dynasty. but in reality, it's all about timing, luck & a lot more luck.

fans and GM's shouldn't concern themselves with dynasty-building. it's an exercise in futility because for the most part - they just happen.

Good post.  Build the best team that you can muster.  If that team becomes a good playoff team that can win 50+ games and win at least a round in the playoffs, then we've got a success.

There's no guarantee a team will win a title, never mind multiple ones.  The best you can hope for is a team that gives itself a chance.