Between Doc (Clippers) & Brad (Boston), who will win a championship first?

[Celtics18]

I don't really like the Clippers very much, but reading this thread kind of makes me root for them to win the Western Conference this year.

[Ogaju]

root all you want, they wont win zip!!

They aren't that good and they are poorly coached to boot.

[nickagneta]

root all you want, they wont win zip!!

They aren't that good and they are poorly coached to boot.

You lose all credibility on the subject when you say ridiculous things like this. Teams that aren't that good AND are poorly coached don't win 50+ games in a season especially when the team had some serious injury issues to deal with to star players.

To win that many games in the Western Conference this year either your team is that good and is well coached, the team is great and poorly coached or the team isn't that good and they are coached extremely well.

[Ogaju]

Clippers are not that good, and they are poorly coached.

They have a couple of future Hall of Famers in Chris Paul and Griffin and that gets them through on most nights. That team as presently constructed will not sniff the Western Conference Championship. Good, but not THAT GOOD.

My comment was in response to a post that said he would root for them to win the west. I said root all you want they wont win Zip, they are NOT THAT GOOD, and their coaching is poor. So don't expect the coaching to put them over their talent level.

[Eja117]

root all you want, they wont win zip!!

They aren't that good and they are poorly coached to boot.

You lose all credibility on the subject when you say ridiculous things like this. Teams that aren't that good AND are poorly coached don't win 50+ games in a season especially when the team had some serious injury issues to deal with to star players.

To win that many games in the Western Conference this year either your team is that good and is well coached, the team is great and poorly coached or the team isn't that good and they are coached extremely well.

I actually do buy this argument on some level. I wouldn't say Doc is a laughing stock.
That said they only have 13 more wins than the Celts and other teams in the west have lost guys like the Rockets and D Howard, OKC and Durant, the Pelicans lost Jrue and Eric Gordon and A Davis all missed time. The Lakers lost Kobe and Julius Randle. The Blazers lost Robin Lopez for a while. The East isn't exactly the push over league they used to be either.

[D.o.s.]

The lack of respect that a former Celtic championship winning coach gets on this, the best Celtics fan site on the internet is truly disturbing.

How many coaches in history have the best single win loss turnaround in NBA history?
How many other coaches have out coaches Phil Jackson to win a title?
How many other coaches have taken a collection of player thrown together in one off season and got them to gel instantly and win a championship in their first year with that group?
How many coaches can brag they may have coached the greatest NBA defense of all time?

That's what Doc Rivers has done. Don't like the guy? Fine. Don't agree with some of the ways he coaches? Fine. But show a little respect. He coached this team to a title and a chance at another and did a hell of a job doing it.

How many coaches sign a very big very long contract and then turn around and quit and scold people for calling it what it is?
How many coaches were given 3 Hall of Famers, and a bunch of excellent players to coach with? I don't understand why people act like he pulled off some miracle.
How many coaches get CP3, Blake Griffin, DeAndre Jordan, Glen Davis, JJ Redick, Jamal Crawford, and Jared Dudley and turn it into a thoroughly mediocre team in the west?

The guy isn't just a bad coach. He's also a phony

The Clippers are thoroughly mediocre?  They have the second best offense in the league, they're on pace to break 50 wins for the third season in a row, they're overachieving against their expectations from a strength of schedule perspective, and they're doing all of this while playing against the tougher conference.

And yet he's no match for Brad Stevens, the little engine that could, I guess. And the East is hot garbage, don't be silly.

[JHTruth]

The lack of respect that a former Celtic championship winning coach gets on this, the best Celtics fan site on the internet is truly disturbing.

How many coaches in history have the best single win loss turnaround in NBA history?
How many other coaches have out coaches Phil Jackson to win a title?
How many other coaches have taken a collection of player thrown together in one off season and got them to gel instantly and win a championship in their first year with that group?
How many coaches can brag they may have coached the greatest NBA defense of all time? U

That's what Doc Rivers has done. Don't like the guy? Fine. Don't agree with some of the ways he coaches? Fine. But show a little respect. He coached this team to a title and a chance at another and did a hell of a job doing it.

How many coaches sign a very big very long contract and then turn around and quit and scold people for calling it what it is?
How many coaches were given 3 Hall of Famers, and a bunch of excellent players to coach with? I don't understand why people act like he pulled off some miracle.
How many coaches get CP3, Blake Griffin, DeAndre Jordan, Glen Davis, JJ Redick, Jamal Crawford, and Jared Dudley and turn it into a thoroughly mediocre team in the west?

The guy isn't just a bad coach. He's also a phony

The Clippers are thoroughly mediocre?  They have the second best offense in the league, they're on pace to break 50 wins for the third season in a row, they're overachieving against their expectations from a strength of schedule perspective, and they're doing all of this while playing against the tougher conference.

And yet he's no match for Brad Stevens, the little engine that could, I guess. And the East is hot garbage, don't be silly.

Not sure why people have to tear down Doc to admire Stevens. Doc is a check of a coach, one of the best in the league.

Stevens is showing flashes but he could still easily be another flop..stay tuned

[Eja117]

The lack of respect that a former Celtic championship winning coach gets on this, the best Celtics fan site on the internet is truly disturbing.

How many coaches in history have the best single win loss turnaround in NBA history?
How many other coaches have out coaches Phil Jackson to win a title?
How many other coaches have taken a collection of player thrown together in one off season and got them to gel instantly and win a championship in their first year with that group?
How many coaches can brag they may have coached the greatest NBA defense of all time?

That's what Doc Rivers has done. Don't like the guy? Fine. Don't agree with some of the ways he coaches? Fine. But show a little respect. He coached this team to a title and a chance at another and did a hell of a job doing it.

How many coaches sign a very big very long contract and then turn around and quit and scold people for calling it what it is?
How many coaches were given 3 Hall of Famers, and a bunch of excellent players to coach with? I don't understand why people act like he pulled off some miracle.
How many coaches get CP3, Blake Griffin, DeAndre Jordan, Glen Davis, JJ Redick, Jamal Crawford, and Jared Dudley and turn it into a thoroughly mediocre team in the west?

The guy isn't just a bad coach. He's also a phony

The Clippers are thoroughly mediocre?  They have the second best offense in the league, they're on pace to break 50 wins for the third season in a row, they're overachieving against their expectations from a strength of schedule perspective, and they're doing all of this while playing against the tougher conference.

And yet he's no match for Brad Stevens, the little engine that could, I guess. And the East is hot garbage, don't be silly.

Speaking of silly....better than the big engine that can't.  I wonder what the excuse will be this year. Maybe their new owner will say he doesn't like rap music or they'll offer Doc a contract extension without offering him an extra plate of cupcakes.

Wait. Did you just say the Clippers are overachieving against expectations? You just said that didn't you?

[Boris Badenov]

The lack of respect that a former Celtic championship winning coach gets on this, the best Celtics fan site on the internet is truly disturbing.

How many coaches in history have the best single win loss turnaround in NBA history?
How many other coaches have out coaches Phil Jackson to win a title?
How many other coaches have taken a collection of player thrown together in one off season and got them to gel instantly and win a championship in their first year with that group?
How many coaches can brag they may have coached the greatest NBA defense of all time?

That's what Doc Rivers has done. Don't like the guy? Fine. Don't agree with some of the ways he coaches? Fine. But show a little respect. He coached this team to a title and a chance at another and did a hell of a job doing it.

your boy doc blew the 2010 series with his usual buffoonery that we have discussed here ad infinitum. Even with perkins out everybody here remembers what the scoreboard read in the 4th quarter of game 7. He blew it. The perkins excuse does not fly. Doc still had plenty of talent to get it done.

Exactly, TP. He must get all the blame for losing that game.

Furthermore it is patently obvious that he must not get any credit for taking the Cs to the Finals that year. The team would have done just as well if it were coached by a bowl of soup.

It was the players alone who were responsible for a #4 seed beating the #1, #2 and #5 seeds in the East. Those teams only had 61, 59 and 47 victories respectively!  Teams with chumps like Lebron and Dwight Howard are trivially easy to outplay when you have talent like we did. I mean, trot your guys out there and let them do their thing. No coaching required.

And of course the players alone are responsible for getting the Celtics that lead heading into the 4th quarter, without their starting center. Clearly, at that point Doc's horrendous coaching finally overpowered our talent and kept us from what would have been certain victory in his absence.

Terrific example. I can't imagine clearer evidence that Doc can't coach.

[JHTruth]

The lack of respect that a former Celtic championship winning coach gets on this, the best Celtics fan site on the internet is truly disturbing.

How many coaches in history have the best single win loss turnaround in NBA history?
How many other coaches have out coaches Phil Jackson to win a title?
How many other coaches have taken a collection of player thrown together in one off season and got them to gel instantly and win a championship in their first year with that group?
How many coaches can brag they may have coached the greatest NBA defense of all time?

That's what Doc Rivers has done. Don't like the guy? Fine. Don't agree with some of the ways he coaches? Fine. But show a little respect. He coached this team to a title and a chance at another and did a hell of a job doing it.

your boy doc blew the 2010 series with his usual buffoonery that we have discussed here ad infinitum. Even with perkins out everybody here remembers what the scoreboard read in the 4th quarter of game 7. He blew it. The perkins excuse does not fly. Doc still had plenty of talent to get it done.

Exactly, TP. He must get all the blame for losing that game.

Furthermore it is patently obvious that he must not get any credit for taking the Cs to the Finals that year. The team would have done just as well if it were coached by a bowl of soup.

It was the players alone who were responsible for a #4 seed beating the #1, #2 and #5 seeds in the East. Those teams only had 61, 59 and 47 victories respectively!  Teams with chumps like Lebron and Dwight Howard are trivially easy to outplay when you have talent like we did. I mean, trot your guys out there and let them do their thing. No coaching required.

And of course the players alone are responsible for getting the Celtics that lead heading into the 4th quarter, without their starting center. Clearly, at that point Doc's horrendous coaching finally overpowered our talent and kept us from what would have been certain victory in his absence.

Terrific example. I can't imagine clearer evidence that Doc can't coach.

/End Thread

[Eja117]

The lack of respect that a former Celtic championship winning coach gets on this, the best Celtics fan site on the internet is truly disturbing.

How many coaches in history have the best single win loss turnaround in NBA history?
How many other coaches have out coaches Phil Jackson to win a title?
How many other coaches have taken a collection of player thrown together in one off season and got them to gel instantly and win a championship in their first year with that group?
How many coaches can brag they may have coached the greatest NBA defense of all time?

That's what Doc Rivers has done. Don't like the guy? Fine. Don't agree with some of the ways he coaches? Fine. But show a little respect. He coached this team to a title and a chance at another and did a hell of a job doing it.

your boy doc blew the 2010 series with his usual buffoonery that we have discussed here ad infinitum. Even with perkins out everybody here remembers what the scoreboard read in the 4th quarter of game 7. He blew it. The perkins excuse does not fly. Doc still had plenty of talent to get it done.

Exactly, TP. He must get all the blame for losing that game.

Furthermore it is patently obvious that he must not get any credit for taking the Cs to the Finals that year. The team would have done just as well if it were coached by a bowl of soup.

It was the players alone who were responsible for a #4 seed beating the #1, #2 and #5 seeds in the East. Those teams only had 61, 59 and 47 victories respectively!  Teams with chumps like Lebron and Dwight Howard are trivially easy to outplay when you have talent like we did. I mean, trot your guys out there and let them do their thing. No coaching required.

And of course the players alone are responsible for getting the Celtics that lead heading into the 4th quarter, without their starting center. Clearly, at that point Doc's horrendous coaching finally overpowered our talent and kept us from what would have been certain victory in his absence.

Terrific example. I can't imagine clearer evidence that Doc can't coach.

Actually this is almost exactly how I see it. That and Thibs and Clifford Ray helped a LOT.

[Boris Badenov]

The lack of respect that a former Celtic championship winning coach gets on this, the best Celtics fan site on the internet is truly disturbing.

How many coaches in history have the best single win loss turnaround in NBA history?
How many other coaches have out coaches Phil Jackson to win a title?
How many other coaches have taken a collection of player thrown together in one off season and got them to gel instantly and win a championship in their first year with that group?
How many coaches can brag they may have coached the greatest NBA defense of all time?

That's what Doc Rivers has done. Don't like the guy? Fine. Don't agree with some of the ways he coaches? Fine. But show a little respect. He coached this team to a title and a chance at another and did a hell of a job doing it.

your boy doc blew the 2010 series with his usual buffoonery that we have discussed here ad infinitum. Even with perkins out everybody here remembers what the scoreboard read in the 4th quarter of game 7. He blew it. The perkins excuse does not fly. Doc still had plenty of talent to get it done.

Exactly, TP. He must get all the blame for losing that game.

Furthermore it is patently obvious that he must not get any credit for taking the Cs to the Finals that year. The team would have done just as well if it were coached by a bowl of soup.

It was the players alone who were responsible for a #4 seed beating the #1, #2 and #5 seeds in the East. Those teams only had 61, 59 and 47 victories respectively!  Teams with chumps like Lebron and Dwight Howard are trivially easy to outplay when you have talent like we did. I mean, trot your guys out there and let them do their thing. No coaching required.

And of course the players alone are responsible for getting the Celtics that lead heading into the 4th quarter, without their starting center. Clearly, at that point Doc's horrendous coaching finally overpowered our talent and kept us from what would have been certain victory in his absence.

Terrific example. I can't imagine clearer evidence that Doc can't coach.

Actually this is almost exactly how I see it. That and Thibs and Clifford Ray helped a LOT.

I know, right? And our talent clearly outstripped everyone else's. I mean, who voted Lebron as MVP and Dwight as DPOY that year - Doc Rivers!?!? Haha.

[Eja117]

If he was such a great coach why did he need to quit the Celts when they were paying him so much? Surely such a great coach could motivate and teach a team and get them to overachieve. He wouldn't need to leave to go to a team with multiple top ten players to get them to be a 4 seed in the mighty west.

[Eja117]

The lack of respect that a former Celtic championship winning coach gets on this, the best Celtics fan site on the internet is truly disturbing.

How many coaches in history have the best single win loss turnaround in NBA history?
How many other coaches have out coaches Phil Jackson to win a title?
How many other coaches have taken a collection of player thrown together in one off season and got them to gel instantly and win a championship in their first year with that group?
How many coaches can brag they may have coached the greatest NBA defense of all time?

That's what Doc Rivers has done. Don't like the guy? Fine. Don't agree with some of the ways he coaches? Fine. But show a little respect. He coached this team to a title and a chance at another and did a hell of a job doing it.

your boy doc blew the 2010 series with his usual buffoonery that we have discussed here ad infinitum. Even with perkins out everybody here remembers what the scoreboard read in the 4th quarter of game 7. He blew it. The perkins excuse does not fly. Doc still had plenty of talent to get it done.

Exactly, TP. He must get all the blame for losing that game.

Furthermore it is patently obvious that he must not get any credit for taking the Cs to the Finals that year. The team would have done just as well if it were coached by a bowl of soup.

It was the players alone who were responsible for a #4 seed beating the #1, #2 and #5 seeds in the East. Those teams only had 61, 59 and 47 victories respectively!  Teams with chumps like Lebron and Dwight Howard are trivially easy to outplay when you have talent like we did. I mean, trot your guys out there and let them do their thing. No coaching required.

And of course the players alone are responsible for getting the Celtics that lead heading into the 4th quarter, without their starting center. Clearly, at that point Doc's horrendous coaching finally overpowered our talent and kept us from what would have been certain victory in his absence.

Terrific example. I can't imagine clearer evidence that Doc can't coach.

Actually this is almost exactly how I see it. That and Thibs and Clifford Ray helped a LOT.

I know, right? And our talent clearly outstripped everyone else's. I mean, who voted Lebron as MVP and Dwight as DPOY that year - Doc Rivers!?!? Haha.

Who manhandled Lebron that year? That would be PP and Ray. It must have been Doc's coaching from working so hard on offense that year.

[D.o.s.]

The lack of respect that a former Celtic championship winning coach gets on this, the best Celtics fan site on the internet is truly disturbing.

How many coaches in history have the best single win loss turnaround in NBA history?
How many other coaches have out coaches Phil Jackson to win a title?
How many other coaches have taken a collection of player thrown together in one off season and got them to gel instantly and win a championship in their first year with that group?
How many coaches can brag they may have coached the greatest NBA defense of all time?

That's what Doc Rivers has done. Don't like the guy? Fine. Don't agree with some of the ways he coaches? Fine. But show a little respect. He coached this team to a title and a chance at another and did a hell of a job doing it.

How many coaches sign a very big very long contract and then turn around and quit and scold people for calling it what it is?
How many coaches were given 3 Hall of Famers, and a bunch of excellent players to coach with? I don't understand why people act like he pulled off some miracle.
How many coaches get CP3, Blake Griffin, DeAndre Jordan, Glen Davis, JJ Redick, Jamal Crawford, and Jared Dudley and turn it into a thoroughly mediocre team in the west?

The guy isn't just a bad coach. He's also a phony

The Clippers are thoroughly mediocre?  They have the second best offense in the league, they're on pace to break 50 wins for the third season in a row, they're overachieving against their expectations from a strength of schedule perspective, and they're doing all of this while playing against the tougher conference.

And yet he's no match for Brad Stevens, the little engine that could, I guess. And the East is hot garbage, don't be silly.

Speaking of silly....better than the big engine that can't.  I wonder what the excuse will be this year. Maybe their new owner will say he doesn't like rap music or they'll offer Doc a contract extension without offering him an extra plate of cupcakes.

Wait. Did you just say the Clippers are overachieving against expectations? You just said that didn't you?

Context. They (the clippers) were expected to win 45 games this season according to a formula (the expected win-loss formula, actually). The C's, for example, were expected to win 30 games.

You can read more about it here:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/glossary.html#wins_pyth