What do we do with Sullinger now?

[Celtics4ever]

He has still untapped potential (to avoid the "room to grow"), especially with improved body

I disagree with the untapped potential.   At the end of the day your talking about a guy who had a max vertical of 31", is 6.7.75" without shoes.

Jared Sullinger was not a standout in the athletic testing among top prospects, which was the expectation coming in. Sullinger had the slowest lane agility and ¾ court sprint times among players in attendance and a bottom-5 maximum vertical jump of 31 inches

From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz3UHbzb7r4
http://www.draftexpress.com

He was 50 out of 5@ guys tested that year in composite results.  He also is relatively skilled already when he came into the league.   What you see if what your going to get except if he gets in shape you might see an extra board or two or better effort.   I have always thought his ceiling is finite. 

He has drafted as a guy who could helped immediately not as a potential guy.

trade him for 2 first rounders

Good luck getting a late first for him.

[obnoxiousmime]

Sullinger is at best a bench guy on a contending team, unless the four other guys are HOF or something. If he were in better shape it might change things, but I don't see him ever being athletic enough to switch to the 3 full time like Millsap and at the 4 he'll always be undersized and a defensive sieve. Not a bad player, just probably not worth overpaying for in 2016.

It may also be a case of having to be traded or suffer a bigger setback for him to get the kick in the butt needed to change his habits. Gerald Green didn't get it together until he was playing in Russia and realized he had to get his act together.

The problem is that necessary setback is not going to happen in Boston with nobody that good really competing with him for the starting job. He's like a smart but lazy kid just skating by at school and getting Bs. Why should he get in shape when he can probably already get a 10-13 million dollar (conservative estimate) offer in 2016 when the cap rises?

[LooseCannon]

He has still untapped potential (to avoid the "room to grow"), especially with improved body

I disagree with the untapped potential.   At the end of the day your talking about a guy who had a max vertical of 31", is 6.7.75" without shoes.

Jared Sullinger was not a standout in the athletic testing among top prospects, which was the expectation coming in. Sullinger had the slowest lane agility and ¾ court sprint times among players in attendance and a bottom-5 maximum vertical jump of 31 inches

From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz3UHbzb7r4
http://www.draftexpress.com

He was 50 out of 5@ guys tested that year in composite results.  He also is relatively skilled already when he came into the league.   What you see if what your going to get except if he gets in shape you might see an extra board or two or better effort.   I have always thought his ceiling is finite. 

He has drafted as a guy who could helped immediately not as a potential guy.

trade him for 2 first rounders

Good luck getting a late first for him.

I would interpret "untapped potential" to mean "hasn't reached his ceiling", not that he has infinite upside.

Sullinger can get better, but Avery Bradley has more All-Star potential than Sullinger.

[clover]

There are like 20 better power forwards in the NBA than Sully and 30 teahttp://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?action=mlistms in total.  At the same time, he has value in a trade.  Ship him out

Who are they then? Besides the obvious candidates.

Likely candidates:
Anthony Davis, Pau Gasol, Blake Griffin, Derrick Favors, Pau Gasol, Tim Duncan, Kevin Love, Paul Millsap, Lamarcus Aldridge, Nikola Mirotic, Zach Randolph, Dirk Nowitzki, Greg Monroe, Taj Gibson, Ryan Anderson, David West, Serge Ibaka

He would be if you played him at PF:
Lebron James, Al Horford, Carmelo Anthony

Maybe:
Kenneth Faried, Nene, David Lee, Ed Davis, Mitch McGary, Kris Humphries, Amir Johnson, Luis Scola, Terrence Jones

I'm missing a few names.  I don't agree with everyone on the maybe list, and I wouldn't necessarily trade him straight up for everyone I think is better, due to contracts/age/etc., but I don't think that the opinion that there are 20 better power forwards is ridiculous.

You forgot KO.

[kozlodoev]

Regarding Sullinger's father attitude towards his son when sully doesn't behave like it should be, I'm hoping it is just a matter of maturity for sully. Everything should be ok soon, but he needs to open his eyes and it starts by listening to what danny said to him (that should hurt btw).
So far the Celtics gave him more than he gave back to this franchise.
Now it's the time for sully to put his s... together and become a key player for this franchise.
If he doesn't get it, I'm sure Danny will find good value for him next year.

His father's attitude? Like when Satch pretty much chalked down his son's weight issues to the Celtics asking him to play C? Or when he was gloating about Jared's ability to shoot the 3? Nothing I've heard from Satch Sullinger so far makes me optimistic that this thing is going to work out. Get whatever you can for him and let someone else be on the hook for the massive payday the increased cap will induce.

[clover]

Regarding Sullinger's father attitude towards his son when sully doesn't behave like it should be, I'm hoping it is just a matter of maturity for sully. Everything should be ok soon, but he needs to open his eyes and it starts by listening to what danny said to him (that should hurt btw).
So far the Celtics gave him more than he gave back to this franchise.
Now it's the time for sully to put his s... together and become a key player for this franchise.
If he doesn't get it, I'm sure Danny will find good value for him next year.

His father's attitude? Like when Satch pretty much chalked down his son's weight issues to the Celtics asking him to play C? Or when he was gloating about Jared's ability to shoot the 3? Nothing I've heard from Satch Sullinger so far makes me optimistic that this thing is going to work out. Get whatever you can for him and let someone else be on the hook for the massive payday the increased cap will induce.

Or when Sully was late twice to practice in one week--including missing all of one shootaround--and his Dad said he just needed to leave home 15 minutes earlier?

I'm with you--I'll be happy when both Sullingers ship out of town.

[Donoghus]

You don't have to do anything with him yet.  He's under team control for another season.  Unless someone comes at you with a trade offer including him that blows you away I don't see any reason to make a decision on him yet. 

Try & build up his value.  One thing I will continue to say, though,  I don't think he's part of this team longterm & its answer at the PF position.   Always felt he would work best as trade bait although his value certainly isn't an a high right now.

[Tr1boy]

He has still untapped potential (to avoid the "room to grow"), especially with improved body

I disagree with the untapped potential.   At the end of the day your talking about a guy who had a max vertical of 31", is 6.7.75" without shoes.

Jared Sullinger was not a standout in the athletic testing among top prospects, which was the expectation coming in. Sullinger had the slowest lane agility and ¾ court sprint times among players in attendance and a bottom-5 maximum vertical jump of 31 inches

From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz3UHbzb7r4
http://www.draftexpress.com

He was 50 out of 5@ guys tested that year in composite results.  He also is relatively skilled already when he came into the league.   What you see if what your going to get except if he gets in shape you might see an extra board or two or better effort.   I have always thought his ceiling is finite. 

He has drafted as a guy who could helped immediately not as a potential guy.

trade him for 2 first rounders

Good luck getting a late first for him.

you can get a 1st for him now. Well late 1st

If he can retain most of his strength, lose pounds and move like the clip below, he will be a very good player in the nba

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjPI9rNPbsU

[droopdog7]

Sully was never a difference maker to begin with.

[Celtics4ever]

If he can retain most of his strength, lose pounds and move like the clip below, he will be a very good player in the nba

 He only bench pressed 185 like nine times at the combine and does not look like he is working out regulary what is this strength you speak of?  He has bulk but not strength, we should call him the "incredible bulk".

http://www.sportsgrid.com/nba/nba-draft-combine-results/


Smart  did it  19 times, Zeller 16 and our own Crowder 20 times.

http://www.topendsports.com/sport/basketball/testing-draft-results-2012.htm

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2069328-marcus-smarts-strong-combine-numbers-help-2014-nba-draft-stock

So is he even that strong folks?  Testing indicates otherwise, if he can't use his weight or derriere on someone than I would imagine he is not that strong.

Not that bench press is the end all in basketball it is not but neither is calling a guy strong who is largely fat.

[Donoghus]

If he can retain most of his strength, lose pounds and move like the clip below, he will be a very good player in the nba

 He only bench pressed 185 like nine times at the combine and does not look like he is working out regulary what is this strength you speak of?  He has bulk but not strength, we should call him the "incredible bulk".

http://www.sportsgrid.com/nba/nba-draft-combine-results/


Smart  did it  19 times, Zeller 16 and our own Crowder 20 times.

http://www.topendsports.com/sport/basketball/testing-draft-results-2012.htm

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2069328-marcus-smarts-strong-combine-numbers-help-2014-nba-draft-stock

So is he even that strong folks?  Testing indicates otherwise, if he can't use his weight or derriere on someone than I would imagine he is not that strong.

I've never really put any stock into the bench press when it comes to basketball.  Hell, look at what Durant did at the combine.  Also, long arms are a big disadvantage.  To me, its almost a fruitless test to give basketball players.

That's not being said in defense of Sullinger.  Just my disdain for the bench press & basketball.

[kozlodoev]

If he can retain most of his strength, lose pounds and move like the clip below, he will be a very good player in the nba

Well, going against guys the size of 6'5 highschoolers would help, too.

[coffee425]

If he can retain most of his strength, lose pounds and move like the clip below, he will be a very good player in the nba

 He only bench pressed 185 like nine times at the combine and does not look like he is working out regulary what is this strength you speak of?  He has bulk but not strength, we should call him the "incredible bulk".

http://www.sportsgrid.com/nba/nba-draft-combine-results/


Smart  did it  19 times, Zeller 16 and our own Crowder 20 times.

http://www.topendsports.com/sport/basketball/testing-draft-results-2012.htm

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2069328-marcus-smarts-strong-combine-numbers-help-2014-nba-draft-stock

So is he even that strong folks?  Testing indicates otherwise, if he can't use his weight or derriere on someone than I would imagine he is not that strong.

Not that bench press is the end all in basketball it is not but neither is calling a guy strong who is largely fat.

Although i'm in the boat to get rid of Sully,
I'll defend him in that I think his squat and deadlift (more important bball strengths) would be a large distance ahead of the average.

[colincb]

I can't believe are throwing Sullinger under a bus. I felt his defense wasn't bad at all.

Really what about chucking threes early in a possession, not running up and down the court?   Did you think that was not bad as well?

I am not throwing him under the bus, I have been driving the bus against him all year and a harsh critic.

I don't see super-stardom for him, but he should be able to be a better than average starting PF in the NBA and he's almost there now after 2+ years.

PER Alone to gauge his D, is very silly.   He fails the eyetest too, other teams attacked the rim with vigor when he was in there.

Look at some of the stats here.

http://www.82games.com/1415/14BOS15.HTM

He is too slow to guard some PFs so we often played him at C, opposing C's shot eFG  .557% against him and PF eFG .475.  Almost anything he gave you was negated by the other team they rebounded well but he shot more poorly than the opposition.  He is a horrible  help defender and sometimes he did not even try.

The team is more fun to watch now even with the second team in because they run and their is movement.  IT has been great but I think the absence of Sully has helped as well and seeing a less talented guy like Crowder or Jerebko out there moving and trying has been more enjoyable than a guy with more talent squandering it for me at least and we help on D.

I'm not going to defend PER as anything but a swiss-knife stat, but it's useful enough if you understand its biases, and most people know of it because ESPN popularized it. I wouldn't use 82games for stats support in any case. It made its name over a decacade ago for +/- which is worse than PER for my money, hasn't been maintained very well since its founder went to work for the Mavs years ago, and was always poorly organized and explained.  In any case, by 82games +/- stats Sullinger outplays his opponent at either center or PF FWIW.  Now some one will post that I shouldn't use +/-.

I stand by my claim that Sullinger is an average starter statistically and given his level of inexperience, should get better.  I don't see super-stardom for him and maybe being above average is his ceiling, but the criticism in this thread is past the point of being silly. Not much facts and now we're talking about what Sullinger did at the Combine which is as useless as _ on a bull.

[mctyson]

The leading scorer of the team gets hurt for the rest of the season, and the celtics didn't miss a beat. Jerebko gets solid PT and contributes perfectly in the system and Kelly's back to spreading the floor. So what do we do with Sully? Personally, he's officially trade bait admist this surge. As skilled as he is, there' no fit for him here. Unless he magically turn his body into brandon bass over the summer, his fit in this offense is looking worse with every win.
I think his season numbers were inflated because he was the only "go-to" scorer and paint threat. Ironically, a 5'9 player has replaced him in both categories, while Jerebko's flying around for the same rebounds/tap-outs and making those 3s that Sully couldn't hit.

Sully was arguably the best player on the team all year, including Rondo/Green.  His talents are not something we should let go of so easily.

He has acknowledged his conditioning issues and hopefully will correct that.