Author Topic: Patriots & NFL Free Agency Updates 2015  (Read 78197 times)

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Re: Patriots & NFL Free Agency Updates 2015
« Reply #180 on: March 11, 2015, 12:39:50 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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I would have wanted Revis back but that jets deal could not be matched. Best I think is pats could do is 3 years 40 million fully guaranteed. Jones, Hightower, Collins and some others won't be on rookie deals forever and it's easier to extend than resign. Revis $ would effect that. Glad for Revis and the Pats they both helped one another in so many ways even now.

Re: Patriots & NFL Free Agency Updates 2015
« Reply #181 on: March 11, 2015, 12:47:33 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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I would have wanted Revis back but that jets deal could not be matched. Best I think is pats could do is 3 years 40 million fully guaranteed. Jones, Hightower, Collins and some others won't be on rookie deals forever and it's easier to extend than resign. Revis $ would effect that. Glad for Revis and the Pats they both helped one another in so many ways even now.

And I think that's something that people who are stomping their feet about this aren't really factoring in.

Letting Revis go was not about next season.  It was about 2016 & beyond.  Dealing with the cap & retaining other key players who will be up for extensions down the road. 

Now people will yell & scream about Brady's window & "win-now" but that has never really been the organizational approach.  It seems to be more about contending year in & year out rather than going for broke one season at the expense of the future. 

Not that I necessarily wholeheartedly agree with it but it's apparent that is what this particular organization does.


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Re: Patriots & NFL Free Agency Updates 2015
« Reply #182 on: March 11, 2015, 12:56:47 PM »

Offline mef730

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I don't blame either Revis or the Pats.  Just business (Where's a Godfather GIF when you need one?), each doing what he thinks is best.

Let's not forget one thing, though.  We have been spoiled by Tom Brady.  Not because of his talent on the field (which is unmatched), but rather, because that guy has always been willing to take one for the team when it came to contracts.  And, as an added bonus, every time Belichick threw him under the bus, whether it was never getting him a WR or during Deflategate (Whatever happened with that NFL investigation and apology, btw?), the guy never uttered a peep.  What he has done is virtually unprecedented in the salary cap era.

Mike

Re: Patriots & NFL Free Agency Updates 2015
« Reply #183 on: March 11, 2015, 12:57:54 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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If I'm the Pats I'm considering really trying hard to run the ball this year. Save Brady and the receivers. Keep the other teams off the field and control the clock. Save the Dbs from having to run all day. Keep the defense less banged up
AP and Demarco Murray are still out there ;D

While I think that a large part of the Patriot Way is empty hyperbole, I don't think the Pats consider All Day while the Hernandez trial is still so fresh.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Patriots & NFL Free Agency Updates 2015
« Reply #184 on: March 11, 2015, 01:05:07 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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If I'm the Pats I'm considering really trying hard to run the ball this year. Save Brady and the receivers. Keep the other teams off the field and control the clock. Save the Dbs from having to run all day. Keep the defense less banged up
AP and Demarco Murray are still out there ;D

While I think that a large part of the Patriot Way is empty hyperbole, I don't think the Pats consider All Day while the Hernandez trial is still so fresh.

I also don't think they consider throwing trash bags of money at a running back period.  Via FA or trading for a high priced one.


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Re: Patriots & NFL Free Agency Updates 2015
« Reply #185 on: March 11, 2015, 01:13:30 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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I don't blame either Revis or the Pats.  Just business (Where's a Godfather GIF when you need one?), each doing what he thinks is best.

Here's a better visual for you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXcLybhbChQ
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: Patriots & NFL Free Agency Updates 2015
« Reply #186 on: March 11, 2015, 01:26:56 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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If I'm the Pats I'm considering really trying hard to run the ball this year. Save Brady and the receivers. Keep the other teams off the field and control the clock. Save the Dbs from having to run all day. Keep the defense less banged up
AP and Demarco Murray are still out there ;D

While I think that a large part of the Patriot Way is empty hyperbole, I don't think the Pats consider All Day while the Hernandez trial is still so fresh.
That and Pats need a better OL to run at the level Vikings and Cowboys do. Replenish the OL and take Matt Jones Day 3. Jones and Blount would punish teams.

Re: Patriots & NFL Free Agency Updates 2015
« Reply #187 on: March 11, 2015, 01:33:57 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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If I'm the Pats I'm considering really trying hard to run the ball this year. Save Brady and the receivers. Keep the other teams off the field and control the clock. Save the Dbs from having to run all day. Keep the defense less banged up
AP and Demarco Murray are still out there ;D

While I think that a large part of the Patriot Way is empty hyperbole, I don't think the Pats consider All Day while the Hernandez trial is still so fresh.
I wonder what people think "The Patriot Way" really is.

Because the "Do your job, don't create distractions, and we won't care about anything else" concept is real and it has happened with remarkable consistency where the Patriots are concerned.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: Patriots & NFL Free Agency Updates 2015
« Reply #188 on: March 11, 2015, 01:52:51 PM »

Offline Fan from VT

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I suppose here are my organized thoughts on the Pats offseason so far:

1. I wish that Revis was still on the roster next year.

2. I wish that Revis and Vereen were still on the roster next year.

3. I wish that Revis and Vereen and Browner were still on the roster next year.

4. Heck, I wish we could just run it back with the same team next year.

5. The salary cap is a Hard Cap and it is designed to prevent a team like the Pats from winning a superbowl and easily being able to run it back.

6. There is no "being cheap." It's not about actual money, it's about navigating the cap, and the Pats are close to it each year.

7. NFL salaries ARE a "Zero Sum" game. Money spent in one place DOES prevent you from spending in another place (unlike baseball, which just has a tax, and the NBA, which has a soft cap...OKC definitely "cheaped out " on Harden; the Pats extending Revis would mean they CANNOT spend that money elsewhere.

8. I like debating about roster moves in any sport, but Bellichek is much better at this than me. About every offseason the Pats (and every NFL team, basically) lose someone via free agency or trade... Law, Malloy, Mankins, Seymour, Moss, Welker, Hernandez...still managed to stay afloat.

9. You can't measure success by superbowl titles. That '07 team didn't win the title, but man, if that '07 team had 10 seasons together, they'd win more superbowls than any other Pats SB winning team.

10. Considering the cap is designed to prevent this, it's AMAZING how many deep playoff appearances and division titles they've won. They deserve Spurs level respect at this point; I'll wait until they absolutely flop before thinking it's over.

11. As others pointed out, paying 1 player is also lost opportunity cost. Sometimes it comes down to "do you want Revis age 31-35 or do you want Jones, Hightower, Collins age 24-28?" The cap requires a lot of long-term thinking.

12. Considering how hard it is to win a superbowl and how much luck (bounces, injuries, etc) is involved, probably the best you can do is guarantee yourself to be repeatedly "in the mix" rather than "the favorite" every so often. If you sacrifice future to "go for it," you usually end up more like the Saints (if you're lucky), but more usually the Cowboys or Falcons (think they're 1 player away, trade a bunch of picks for "the guy," never get that superbowl).

13. Except for Brady (and recently adding in Gronk), the Pats general strategy has been to avoid overpaying aging guys, paying guys for past success, and avoiding tying up a lot of money in one player where injury or sudden decline would cost the team both that player AND cause a huge amount of dead money.

14. The Pats overall strategy has yielded possibly the best every stretch of NFL success in the hardest NFL time period to have that kind of success, so, pretty good.

15. I do not see any negative FA consequences from the Pats. Wilfork was employed and well payed by the Pats for 10+ years. Cuts happen all the time in the NFL to good players. It is well known by players. It is fans and reporters that don't get it. The ONLY part of a contract that matters is the guaranteed bonus. It is reporters' faults (and fans' faults for buying into it) that contracts are reported for the full but almost never actually delivered amounts. Good reporters will say "it's a 5 year contract worth up to 100 million, but it's really a 3 year 40 million dollar deal." All players know that it's a 3 year 40 million dollar deal, and no one is surprised when they are cut before year 4.

16. Continuing with FAs, why wouldn't they want to sign here? Browner got paid and now can test free agency. He signed a cuttable deal with the Pats, so he knew this could happen. Revis signed a 1 year 12 million dollar deal, won a title, proved his worth, and now gets 16 million a year or so from age 31-35 or something. Ayers was a borderline cut, now looks like he'll get a nice payday for looking good on a SB winner. Casillas, never heard of him before last year, now he gets 10 million. Vereen played 16 games this year (5, 13, and 8 in other years), got 840 TOTAL receiving and rushing yards, 5 TOTAL TDs, and now he gets 4 million per year at a position where there's a deep RB draft and it's been shown over and over again to be an unreliable position. If I were a free agent, I'd LOVE to play 1-2 years in NE!!


and I should add

17. I'm not going to try to make it feel better by saying Revis wasn't important. He was a huge asset last year. He might have been vital on the final SB play because maybe it made it more obvious where the throw was going, whereas with a less CB out on that side, maybe the defense hesitates more because the ball could go anywhere. I don't know. But 1 year 12 million is different than what he's getting now.

18. The NFL has the single most difficult to manage budget and salary cap. Additionally, the NFL is the most difficult sport in which to evaluate players; so many fluid and moving parts that are dependent on each other.

19. It might be a mistake to let Revis go. It might make next year's team worse. It depends on what else is added, how they draft, and what the Pats would have needed to cut in order to make Revis fit. The same is true for 2, 3, and 4 years from now. Depends how Revis ages, and what is added to the Pats, and what they would have had to let go in order to keep him all those years. We'll have to see.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2015, 02:08:51 PM by Fan from VT »

Re: Patriots & NFL Free Agency Updates 2015
« Reply #189 on: March 11, 2015, 02:15:49 PM »

Offline Fan from VT

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If I'm the Pats I'm considering really trying hard to run the ball this year. Save Brady and the receivers. Keep the other teams off the field and control the clock. Save the Dbs from having to run all day. Keep the defense less banged up
AP and Demarco Murray are still out there ;D

While I think that a large part of the Patriot Way is empty hyperbole, I don't think the Pats consider All Day while the Hernandez trial is still so fresh.
I wonder what people think "The Patriot Way" really is.

Because the "Do your job, don't create distractions, and we won't care about anything else" concept is real and it has happened with remarkable consistency where the Patriots are concerned.

I don't think the Patriot Way pertains much to actual players. Gronk acts wacky, so does edelman, Brady models in some ridiculous photos, Bellichek is actually supposedly really funny when reporters aren't around.

I think the "Patriot Way" is:

1. Keep Brady

2. Don't tie up cap space long term in any 1 player that isn't Brady (stay flexible year to year, able to weather injuries better)

3. Four 20% chances at success is better than 1-2 30% chances at success. This is true for drafting (take 2 3rd rounders for a late 1st) and trying to win (5 years of first round byes without an additional superstar rather than trade picks and space for a second 30 year old star that then is overpaid).

4. Don't pay for past performance, only predicted future performance. A player outperforms their deal and wins or comes close to winning a SB? Great. Thanks. Enjoy your fat paycheck from Oakland, Tampa, Buffalo, Jets, etc. We won't pay for nostalgia, and no retroactive "thank you" contracts. We think you're going to continue to be this good? We'll pay you.

Re: Patriots & NFL Free Agency Updates 2015
« Reply #190 on: March 11, 2015, 02:34:53 PM »

Offline Cman

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I suppose here are my organized thoughts on the Pats offseason so far:
1 ....
...
19. ...

Wow. TP. Very well thought out and stated.
As I stated in a prior post, for me one of the biggest takeaways is how well the NFL hard cap works. It means teams are constantly juggling players, players are moving from good teams to not so good teams, etc. And, not to beat the TB drum too much, but it really highlights Brady's accomplishments given he's playing in the era of hard cap.
Celtics fan for life.

Re: Patriots & NFL Free Agency Updates 2015
« Reply #191 on: March 11, 2015, 03:26:28 PM »

Offline Fan from VT

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I suppose here are my organized thoughts on the Pats offseason so far:
1 ....
...
19. ...

Wow. TP. Very well thought out and stated.
As I stated in a prior post, for me one of the biggest takeaways is how well the NFL hard cap works. It means teams are constantly juggling players, players are moving from good teams to not so good teams, etc. And, not to beat the TB drum too much, but it really highlights Brady's accomplishments given he's playing in the era of hard cap.

And that both the Niners and Broncos cheated around the cap, exceeded the cap, and were caught!!! But they aren't brought up as "cheaters" even though their cheating ACTUALLY GOT MORE BETTER PLAYERS ON THE ACTUAL FIELD!!!

Re: Patriots & NFL Free Agency Updates 2015
« Reply #192 on: March 11, 2015, 03:42:47 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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I wonder how Roger's tampering investigation is going these days?  ::)


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Re: Patriots & NFL Free Agency Updates 2015
« Reply #193 on: March 11, 2015, 03:42:53 PM »

Offline TwinTower14

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If I'm the Pats I'm considering really trying hard to run the ball this year. Save Brady and the receivers. Keep the other teams off the field and control the clock. Save the Dbs from having to run all day. Keep the defense less banged up
AP and Demarco Murray are still out there ;D

While I think that a large part of the Patriot Way is empty hyperbole, I don't think the Pats consider All Day while the Hernandez trial is still so fresh.
I wonder what people think "The Patriot Way" really is.

Because the "Do your job, don't create distractions, and we won't care about anything else" concept is real and it has happened with remarkable consistency where the Patriots are concerned.

I don't think the Patriot Way pertains much to actual players. Gronk acts wacky, so does edelman, Brady models in some ridiculous photos, Bellichek is actually supposedly really funny when reporters aren't around.

I think the "Patriot Way" is:

1. Keep Brady

2. Don't tie up cap space long term in any 1 player that isn't Brady (stay flexible year to year, able to weather injuries better)

3. Four 20% chances at success is better than 1-2 30% chances at success. This is true for drafting (take 2 3rd rounders for a late 1st) and trying to win (5 years of first round byes without an additional superstar rather than trade picks and space for a second 30 year old star that then is overpaid).

4. Don't pay for past performance, only predicted future performance. A player outperforms their deal and wins or comes close to winning a SB? Great. Thanks. Enjoy your fat paycheck from Oakland, Tampa, Buffalo, Jets, etc. We won't pay for nostalgia, and no retroactive "thank you" contracts. We think you're going to continue to be this good? We'll pay you.

You aren't implying that paying Revis would be paying for past performance are you??? You can make the case that Revis will play to his level over the next three years over anyone on the Pats roster??  I may concede Brady but he is going to be 38 year next year but other than that, Revis is a safer bet to play elite football over the next three years over anyone else on their roster....

Re: Patriots & NFL Free Agency Updates 2015
« Reply #194 on: March 11, 2015, 04:10:16 PM »

Offline kraidstar

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we just let go of the best cornerback of the last 20 years over a total of $4 million dollars. that's a difference of $1.3M over 3 years. and this is during an era when good corners are more important than ever.

and in regards to plugging that void, i've got news for everyone - bill parcells drafted most of the defensive studs during the pats' first 3 championship years. look it up.

rodney harrison, revis, and browner were of course also drafted by other people.

BB has never won a title without elite defensive players in the secondary.

BB has never built a dominant defense from scratch. he's a great coach and as a GM is good at filling out a roster, but he ignores the overwhelming evidence that championship defenses are anchored by elite players.

just look at the
seahawks
steelers
giants
ravens
even the packers, rams, and colts had some real studs on those clubs. i don't see those guys here now, especially at the cornerback position, a spot which plagued this team for years after harrison retired and samuel left.

but sure, BB will buck that trend and coach up some scrubs, right? even though NONE of our championship secondaries were anchored by scrubs.

we're in big trouble unless we either draft a bunch of defensive studs, or BB uses that cap space to get some real undervalued gems. and i mean GEMS. cause BB just gutted the only part of our defense that was truly elite.

and BTW, i COULDN'T CARE LESS about regular season achievements and consistency, obsessing over that is for losers. and manning and rodgers prove that elite all-time QBs will easily put up great regular season records every year anyways. but championships are all that matter. and once again it looks like we'll have yet another post-2004 defense that won't be good enough to seal the deal in the biggest moments.