Author Topic: Larry Sanders...Why I quit Basketball  (Read 44036 times)

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Re: Larry Sanders...Why I quit Basketball
« Reply #90 on: February 25, 2015, 03:14:44 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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That's where you are wrong.  Due to his depression, he is physically unable to perform.  If he needs to leave his JOB to fix his LIFE, then so be it.
See above comments for Schilling's sock and Rondo's elbow. Throw KG's right knee and both of Amare's knees while you're at it. Just because you have a medical condition doesn't mean you're physically unable to perform.

Depression is a real thing.

I'm glad you didn't have to go through it, and you can live life free of knowing how it feels, or what it does to a person.

But on the other hand I'm also sadden that you can't take this illness seriously.
A little empathy would be nice, Larry Sanders is not a hero, he's just a person like us, and like the millions of people suffering from depression, and I'm glad he is doing something about it.

He lucked out that he is 7 foot tall and athletic and someone paid him for being that.
But to undermine what he is going through, that is just pathetic.
I'm not undermining what he's going through. I'm undermining the fact that he's getting applauded for walking on his team while collecting millions in the process. It may be standard operating procedure in the NBA, but I don't consider it worthy of appreciation. And whoever thinks that playing through a mental disorder is harder than playing with your tendon help together with clips... I don't know what to tell you.

So would he get applauded for, uh, not leaving the team in the face of his personal difficulties? That seems equally unworthy of adoration.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Larry Sanders...Why I quit Basketball
« Reply #91 on: February 25, 2015, 03:16:30 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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you walk around inherently suspicious of your fellow human beings?
Absolutely.  Trust nobody!!

Depression/anxiety is a convenient excuse for not putting in work. 

But seriously, I haven't really researched Sanders situation.  I know there's some history of players who couldn't play basketball because of depression (Delonte) and anxiety (Royce White)... Maybe Sanders is genuine.   I'm inherently skeptical, though.   

Isn't Depression/anxiety the go-to excuse for getting medical marijuana prescriptions?  Convenient way to explain his failed drug tests.  Sanders found a way to get paid 22 million dollars to do nothing.  Shame we can't do that with our own jobs.  "Can't work, boss... I don't want to be defined by my work... i'm an artist, a family man, a lover...  Please pay my next two years salary for doing no work.  Thanks"

Re: Larry Sanders...Why I quit Basketball
« Reply #92 on: February 25, 2015, 03:22:46 PM »

Offline Cman

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good find.
hope all the best for him. Looks like a genuine guy, unlike how the media portrays him. There will always be a place in the league for a talent like him if he ever decides to return.
Let's recap, he signed a big fat contract last season, then figured out that he really "didn't want to be in the NBA" and wants to do "what's best for his family". As a result, he's going to collect $11 million this season and roughly $2 million per year for the next 7(!) years. Seems real "genuine" to me.

I've got no problem with what he's doing, and I actually applaud him.

Whatever Sanders' inner turmoil is, I still don't see what of his actions is worthy of applause. So far, all he's done is quit his job to pursue other interests and is going to be compensated well despite breaking his contract. I don't see what's admirable about that.

He didn't break his contract. If he did break the contract, he'd get nothing. Instead, he and the Bucks agreed to a buyout. Does he get a lot of money? Yes, he does. Do I wish I had that money instead? Yes, I do. But, life isn't always fair. If I lived in a world where people paid millions of dollars to touch red hair, I'd be doing really well for myself. Instead I live in a world where people pay millions to watch tall, athletic people throw balls in hoops. Such is life.

I don't have red hair, but I wouldn't mind living in that world either. I once saw a Married With Children where Peg almost sold her hair to a rich couple but ultimately tricked them by dyeing their dog, 'Buck's hair. That's the closest I ever came to that world.

I was more questioning the applause aspect, and you're not the first person in this thread to use that term, I think. I still don't see what's admirable about him getting a cushy buyout to go pursue his hobbies etc.

I don't applaud him for getting the buyout. I applaud him for making a video and talking about depression and personal issues.
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Re: Larry Sanders...Why I quit Basketball
« Reply #93 on: February 25, 2015, 03:23:58 PM »

Offline TheFlex

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I don't have a problem with the drugs.  I don't have a problem with him deciding that there are more important things in life than basketball.  But everything he's saying is kind of hollow when he hasn't had to make any sacrifices to pursue what makes him happy.

It's really easy to say that this is the best decision for his family when he gets a buyout for doing nothing at all.  How are these NBA contracts written that he's entitled to even one cent?  In any other job if you decide you don't feel like working anymore, your contract is torn up.  I wonder if he would be singing the same tune if that was the case here.

Go google 'guaranteed contracts.'

Are you going to explain the point you're trying to make or do you just want me to Google "guaranteed contracts" for no particular reason?

The term "guaranteed contact" is purely agent-speak.  It has no legal definition whatsoever.  It doesn't even have a consistent definition across the NBA.  What is called a "guaranteed contract" by the media can have any number of clauses in it which makes it anything but guaranteed.  I'm asking how they managed to write a contract which seemingly entitles one party to compensation without any tangible value going in the other direction.  This is not a valid contract under U.S. law.

All of this is to say that what must have actually happened was that Larry Sanders told them, "I don't feel like playing basketball anymore", to which they responded, "Fine, we'll just keep our money then" (which is 100% within their rights as an employer).  So Sanders came back and said, "Okay, I changed my mind.  I'll be happy to half-ass my way through a few seasons for a paycheck."  Then they negotiated a buyout.  What I'm trying to understand is why everyone seems to be so quick to profess their respect for a guy that basically just extorted millions from the Bucks?

Maybe if you googled that phrase, you'd be able to find the answer to your questions and complaints, namely:

Quote
How are these NBA contracts written that he's entitled to even one cent?

Quote
I'm asking how they managed to write a contract which seemingly entitles one party to compensation without any tangible value going in the other direction.

That's information that you can easily find out on your own, instead of griping about someone you don't know involved in something you clearly don't understand:)

Here, I'll get you started:
http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q64

Come on, there's no need for that.  Especially when the article confirms that my understanding was pretty accurate.  The only thing I didn't account for was the inability to render services due to mental health issues.  That explains why the Bucks were left on the hook for the balance of his contract.  It also makes me even more skeptical that he actually has a mental health disorder, but I'll admit that that is complete conjecture.
Fair enough -- apologies. The smile was to lighten it a little bit since things tend to read more seriously than the sound in person.

Ah, sorry.  I thought it was a sarcastic smile.
you had it right the first time.

It's certainly sarcastic, but it's not meant to be mean/insulting. Hence the clarification.

In the future, though, please feel free to tell other posters what my intentions are.
so you were being sarcastic and saying the poster doesn't know what he's talking about and that isn't insulting how?

If you've never used sarcasm in a friendly way then I'm not sure what to tell you. I'm also not sure why you're getting so aggreived on his behalf.
I see. You're just a friendly guy using sarcasm to make friends.

And you're nothing but a winner, through and through. What does this have to do with Larry Sanders?
Nothing so send me a private message if you have anything else to say.

Ooooohhhh he wants to take it outside.


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Re: Larry Sanders...Why I quit Basketball
« Reply #94 on: February 25, 2015, 03:24:38 PM »

Offline saltlover

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you walk around inherently suspicious of your fellow human beings?
Absolutely.  Trust nobody!!

Depression/anxiety is a convenient excuse for not putting in work. 

But seriously, I haven't really researched Sanders situation.  I know there's some history of players who couldn't play basketball because of depression (Delonte) and anxiety (Royce White)... Maybe Sanders is genuine.   I'm inherently skeptical, though.   

"Depression"/"anxiety" is the go-to excuse for getting medical marijuana.  Sanders found a way to get paid 22 million dollars to do nothing.  Shame we can't do that with our own jobs.  "Can't work, boss... I don't want to be defined by my work... i'm an artist, a family man, a lover...  Please pay my next two years salary for doing no work.  Thanks"

He reportedly entered a treatment facility months ago.  He alluded to this in his video.  Presumably if this was true the Bucks would have had such information.  Presumably, he also received such diagnosis from licensed professionals.  It wouldn't even shock me if the Bucks got to choose the clinicians he saw.

That the Bucks chose to negotiate a buyout, given that they probably have more information than any of us, should indicate that at least their lawyers believed the diagnosis to be unassailable.

Also, regardless of your (strong) opinions on Sanders, understand that a lot of people have been touched personally by severe anxiety and/or depression disorders, and using language that universalizes your opinions about Sanders to all of those dealing with such conditions should provoke backlash.

Re: Larry Sanders...Why I quit Basketball
« Reply #95 on: February 25, 2015, 03:31:27 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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I don't have a problem with the drugs.  I don't have a problem with him deciding that there are more important things in life than basketball.  But everything he's saying is kind of hollow when he hasn't had to make any sacrifices to pursue what makes him happy.

It's really easy to say that this is the best decision for his family when he gets a buyout for doing nothing at all.  How are these NBA contracts written that he's entitled to even one cent?  In any other job if you decide you don't feel like working anymore, your contract is torn up.  I wonder if he would be singing the same tune if that was the case here.

Go google 'guaranteed contracts.'

Are you going to explain the point you're trying to make or do you just want me to Google "guaranteed contracts" for no particular reason?

The term "guaranteed contact" is purely agent-speak.  It has no legal definition whatsoever.  It doesn't even have a consistent definition across the NBA.  What is called a "guaranteed contract" by the media can have any number of clauses in it which makes it anything but guaranteed.  I'm asking how they managed to write a contract which seemingly entitles one party to compensation without any tangible value going in the other direction.  This is not a valid contract under U.S. law.

All of this is to say that what must have actually happened was that Larry Sanders told them, "I don't feel like playing basketball anymore", to which they responded, "Fine, we'll just keep our money then" (which is 100% within their rights as an employer).  So Sanders came back and said, "Okay, I changed my mind.  I'll be happy to half-ass my way through a few seasons for a paycheck."  Then they negotiated a buyout.  What I'm trying to understand is why everyone seems to be so quick to profess their respect for a guy that basically just extorted millions from the Bucks?

Maybe if you googled that phrase, you'd be able to find the answer to your questions and complaints, namely:

Quote
How are these NBA contracts written that he's entitled to even one cent?

Quote
I'm asking how they managed to write a contract which seemingly entitles one party to compensation without any tangible value going in the other direction.

That's information that you can easily find out on your own, instead of griping about someone you don't know involved in something you clearly don't understand:)

Here, I'll get you started:
http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q64

Come on, there's no need for that.  Especially when the article confirms that my understanding was pretty accurate.  The only thing I didn't account for was the inability to render services due to mental health issues.  That explains why the Bucks were left on the hook for the balance of his contract.  It also makes me even more skeptical that he actually has a mental health disorder, but I'll admit that that is complete conjecture.
Fair enough -- apologies. The smile was to lighten it a little bit since things tend to read more seriously than the sound in person.

Ah, sorry.  I thought it was a sarcastic smile.
you had it right the first time.

It's certainly sarcastic, but it's not meant to be mean/insulting. Hence the clarification.

In the future, though, please feel free to tell other posters what my intentions are.
so you were being sarcastic and saying the poster doesn't know what he's talking about and that isn't insulting how?

If you've never used sarcasm in a friendly way then I'm not sure what to tell you. I'm also not sure why you're getting so aggreived on his behalf.
I see. You're just a friendly guy using sarcasm to make friends.

And you're nothing but a winner, through and through. What does this have to do with Larry Sanders?
Nothing so send me a private message if you have anything else to say.

Ooooohhhh he wants to take it outside.

Fight! Fight! Fight!  :P

you walk around inherently suspicious of your fellow human beings?
Absolutely.  Trust nobody!!

Depression/anxiety is a convenient excuse for not putting in work. 

But seriously, I haven't really researched Sanders situation.  I know there's some history of players who couldn't play basketball because of depression (Delonte) and anxiety (Royce White)... Maybe Sanders is genuine.   I'm inherently skeptical, though.   

Isn't Depression/anxiety the go-to excuse for getting medical marijuana prescriptions?  Convenient way to explain his failed drug tests.  Sanders found a way to get paid 22 million dollars to do nothing.  Shame we can't do that with our own jobs.  "Can't work, boss... I don't want to be defined by my work... i'm an artist, a family man, a lover...  Please pay my next two years salary for doing no work.  Thanks"

From what I know, the medical marijuana prescriptions are mostly for chronic pains, no pun intended, but I tend to get my illegal drugs illegally, so I don't really know the numbers.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Larry Sanders...Why I quit Basketball
« Reply #96 on: February 25, 2015, 03:38:01 PM »

Offline timobusa

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That's where you are wrong.  Due to his depression, he is physically unable to perform.  If he needs to leave his JOB to fix his LIFE, then so be it.
See above comments for Schilling's sock and Rondo's elbow. Throw KG's right knee and both of Amare's knees while you're at it. Just because you have a medical condition doesn't mean you're physically unable to perform.

Depression is a real thing.

I'm glad you didn't have to go through it, and you can live life free of knowing how it feels, or what it does to a person.

But on the other hand I'm also sadden that you can't take this illness seriously.
A little empathy would be nice, Larry Sanders is not a hero, he's just a person like us, and like the millions of people suffering from depression, and I'm glad he is doing something about it.

He lucked out that he is 7 foot tall and athletic and someone paid him for being that.
But to undermine what he is going through, that is just pathetic.
I'm not undermining what he's going through. I'm undermining the fact that he's getting applauded for walking on his team while collecting millions in the process. It may be standard operating procedure in the NBA, but I don't consider it worthy of appreciation. And whoever thinks that playing through a mental disorder is harder than playing with your tendon help together with clips... I don't know what to tell you.

You really have no idea what depression is, do you?
That's why you make statements like "And whoever thinks that playing through a mental disorder is harder than playing with your tendon help together with clips... I don't know what to tell you."

I won't take the time to explain it to you, I just hope you never have to go through it.

I am by no means a professional athlete, but I would rather go through life with aches and pains physically than be stuck in depression again.

And he's not being glorified for "walking out on his team while collecting millions"
People on here (that's on Sanders side) look at him as a person, not a thing that can entertain you for 48 minutes a night.


« Last Edit: February 25, 2015, 03:43:09 PM by timobusa »

Re: Larry Sanders...Why I quit Basketball
« Reply #97 on: February 25, 2015, 03:40:30 PM »

Offline GetLucky

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Here's an article from almost 2 years ago, before all of the marajuana concerns. This reveals another underlying issue for Sanders: he was raised basically fatherless. The short time (6 years) he did have his father in his life, Larry Sanders Sr. was an alcoholic wife beater. This is probably the cause of the emotional instability, as he even referenced "scary flashes" in this article:

Quote
Sanders, a candidate for both the Defensive Player of the Year and Most Improved Player awards, most often provokes two questions among NBA observers.

1. How did he block that shot?

2. What is wrong with that guy?

Sanders, now in his third year from Virginia Commonwealth, is second in the NBA with 2.8 blocks per game and tied for the league lead with 14 technical fouls. He's been fined $50,000 for criticizing the officials. He's sarcastically flashed thumbs up to the referees after being ejected. He's been sent home by his (former) coach for a "team conduct issue." And he's absolutely lost it during an extended jawing match with the Pacers that got him tossed from a game last April.

In this week's Sports Illustrated, senior writer Lee Jenkins goes deep to answer both questions, chatting with Sanders about his craft, his upbringing and his many interests outside basketball, which include drawing, skateboard building and gospel music.

Jenkins uncovers a back story so haunting that it makes you re-evaluate any knee-jerk reaction you might have to his on-court disciplinary issues.

The ugly episodes came on weekend nights, when Larry was four and five years old, tucked into bed. “I remember flashes,” he says. “Some of them won’t ever go away. Some of them are really vivid, really terrifying. There were occasions I’d be sleeping and I’d hear my dad come home late. He’d been drinking and gambling, and he’d use my mom as an outlet if he lost. I’d hear a chair crack against the wall or a loud scream. He was so big. She was only 5'5".?” (Sanders Sr. says he has never had a drinking problem.)

Larry’s mother, Marilyn Smith, hid her pain. “I didn’t tell him what happened,” Marilyn says. “I don’t believe in hate. I didn’t tell him what Daddy did. I wanted him to love his father. But I had to get him out of there so he wouldn’t see anything.” Marilyn left home with her six-year-old son and seven-year-old daughter, Cheyenne, even though they had nowhere to go. “No one really took us in,” Larry says. “We lived on the streets.” They slept in a shelter for battered women, where Larry shared a bed with his mom and his sister, and they shared a room with another family. “I felt like my mom was my lady,” he recalls, “and I had to take care of her.” He rarely left her side. They were kicked out of the shelter for breaking curfew one night and moved in with Marilyn’s mother, who, despite being bedridden with diabetes and rheumatoid arthritis, already had 16 family members spread through her living room, garage and trailer. “We felt we had to duck from my dad,” Larry says. “He couldn’t know where we were, or we were afraid he’d come get us.”

They settled in a Section 8 house off a dirt road in Vero Beach, where Larry spent hours at the kitchen table with his notepad and the Indian River Press Journal. “Drawing was a way for my mind to take a break from everything I’d seen and focus on the lines,” he says. “It was a release for me. I could zone out and just be there.” Marilyn bought him a black skateboard, another vehicle that allowed him to escape, up ramps and down driveways with new friends.

Marilyn wanted to keep her children close, so she worked wherever they went to school, whether it was Citrus Elementary or Olive Middle, whether she was a bus driver or a crossing guard, a cafeteria cook or a substitute teacher. But she could not shield Larry from trouble. He was expelled from fourth, fifth and sixth grades. “I didn’t fight a lot, but I had a problem with authority,” he says. “I’d get into it with teachers.”




There are layers and layers to this piece. Did you know, for instance, that Sanders wants to open a shelter for battered women? There's just no way to read this profile without fundamentally changing how you perceive the Bucks' 24-year-old big man.
Source: http://www.si.com/nba/point-forward/2013/04/14/larry-sanders-bucks-sports-illustrated

So none of this is new stuff. The "artist" thing isn't media fluff. He legitimately means it. He took psychology at VCU so he could "figure out why people do bad things." He basically grew up trusting only his mother, probably believing that people were inherently bad, and he clearly struggled with some sort of untreated mental instability due to his circumstances. Basketball used to be his outlet, but when it got too crazy, he started to suffer again.

I do applaud the guy for his decision, and if anyone wants to argue against the word "applaud" I'll be happy to. Hopefully he finds the solace in basketball that he once had and joins a strong, supportive group, either as a player or a coach. Maybe he goes back to VCU to help Shaka Smart. Almost all of his players grew up fatherless, and they're all fiercely loyal to him. Either way, I wish the best for the man.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2015, 03:46:42 PM by GetLucky »

Re: Larry Sanders...Why I quit Basketball
« Reply #98 on: February 25, 2015, 03:41:44 PM »

Offline timobusa

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Re: Larry Sanders...Why I quit Basketball
« Reply #99 on: February 25, 2015, 03:59:06 PM »

Offline littleteapot

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For the record it is absolutely possible to work extremely hard despite depression. I have a friend who worked several part time jobs at once while having depression because he was deep in debt. Mental illness doesn't turn off the other problems in your life. Sanders is either lucky that he can just quit his job with few consequences or he's unlucky that he doesn't have something he has to motivate himself for.
How do you feel about websites where people with similar interests share their opinions?
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Re: Larry Sanders...Why I quit Basketball
« Reply #100 on: February 25, 2015, 04:06:21 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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A lot of people wearing their judgy face in this thread.





I wish all people struggling with depression and crippling anxiety had the ability and resources to get help and find a way to live that doesn't subject them to the worst of those conditions.

I'm happy for Larry Sanders that he has the good fortune to be in that position.

Period.

As for the judgment of this young man's character because he has chosen at times to self-medicate with marijuana (or simply enjoy it recreationally) ... grow up and join all of the rest of us in the 21st century.
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Re: Larry Sanders...Why I quit Basketball
« Reply #101 on: February 25, 2015, 05:13:13 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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you walk around inherently suspicious of your fellow human beings?
Absolutely.  Trust nobody!!

Depression/anxiety is a convenient excuse for not putting in work. 

But seriously, I haven't really researched Sanders situation.  I know there's some history of players who couldn't play basketball because of depression (Delonte) and anxiety (Royce White)... Maybe Sanders is genuine.   I'm inherently skeptical, though.   

"Depression"/"anxiety" is the go-to excuse for getting medical marijuana.  Sanders found a way to get paid 22 million dollars to do nothing.  Shame we can't do that with our own jobs.  "Can't work, boss... I don't want to be defined by my work... i'm an artist, a family man, a lover...  Please pay my next two years salary for doing no work.  Thanks"

He reportedly entered a treatment facility months ago.  He alluded to this in his video.  Presumably if this was true the Bucks would have had such information.  Presumably, he also received such diagnosis from licensed professionals.  It wouldn't even shock me if the Bucks got to choose the clinicians he saw.

That the Bucks chose to negotiate a buyout, given that they probably have more information than any of us, should indicate that at least their lawyers believed the diagnosis to be unassailable.

Also, regardless of your (strong) opinions on Sanders, understand that a lot of people have been touched personally by severe anxiety and/or depression disorders, and using language that universalizes your opinions about Sanders to all of those dealing with such conditions should provoke backlash.
Fwiw, the Celtics continued to pay Vin Baker despite the fact he was a proven alcoholic and continuously broke his contract by showing up to work drunk.  Vin received millions of dollars in buy-out money even after the Celtics let him go.  Guaranteed contracts in the NBA are nuts.

I don't have strong opinions about Larry Sanders.  I admit I haven't researched his situation.  I'm just highly skeptical.  Dude is getting paid 22 million to sit at home.  Depression or no depression, sure feels like a scam to me.

Re: Larry Sanders...Why I quit Basketball
« Reply #102 on: February 25, 2015, 05:17:26 PM »

Offline moiso

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That's not a behavior unique to celebrities, or NBA players, or people who are right handed, left handed, ambidextrous or amputees.

So the two of you walk around inherently suspicious of your fellow human beings? How very quaint, but it sounds exhausting.
I would have loved to have parents as gullible as you.  I would have gotten away with some crazy stuff and suffered no repercussions.
I'm a psych nurse and deal with people in far worse condition than Sanders every day.  You definitely learn to be suspicious of everything that is said when it comes to making excuses or rationalizing things.

Re: Larry Sanders...Why I quit Basketball
« Reply #103 on: February 25, 2015, 05:23:43 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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That's not a behavior unique to celebrities, or NBA players, or people who are right handed, left handed, ambidextrous or amputees.

So the two of you walk around inherently suspicious of your fellow human beings? How very quaint, but it sounds exhausting.
I would have loved to have parents as gullible as you.  I would have gotten away with some crazy stuff and suffered no repercussions.
I'm a psych nurse and deal with people in far worse condition than Sanders every day.  You definitely learn to be suspicious of everything that is said when it comes to making excuses or rationalizing things.
If you are a psych nurse I'm sure your coworkers can explain what projection is, and some steps you might take to deal with it in a more positive fashion.

Hope you can find some help post haste!
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Larry Sanders...Why I quit Basketball
« Reply #104 on: February 25, 2015, 06:27:16 PM »

Online SHAQATTACK

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He can afford to be crazy and FIND HIMSElf. Or what ever hippy trip he needs to deal with....he can go hide ....meditate .....do off the wall stuff

The rest of us have to carry our problems on our shoulders .......

March on every day to do our jobs and collect our checks

I don't feel sorry for him. In the least .