C's pursuing Cousins per Sam Smith

[D.o.s.]

As much as I'd like to believe it....I just can't.  I have to believe that Karl not only accepts having Cousins on the team, but wants him there.  He is a one of a kind asset...if the Kings are going to go anywhere, odds are that Cousins is the guy to lead the charge.

I think this is overlooked. People assuming Karl won't/can't coach cousins aren't giving him his due as a coach. It's similar in some ways to assuming Phil Jackson would've traded 2001 Shaq because he'd never coached a dominant back-to-the-basket center before.

I'm not sure I can swallow the 2015 George Karl and 1999 (I assume you meant 1999?) Phil Jackson comparison.  On one hand we have a guy who has made it out of the first round once in his last 10 attempts.  On the other, a guy who had already won 6 championships when he took over the Lakers.

That being said, I agree with you that if D'Alessandro has consulted Karl about Cousins, there's no way Karl advocated for a trade.  It's pretty clear that he is obsessed with setting the all-time record for NBA wins (he wouldn't have taken the worst coaching gig in the NBA if he wasn't), and at his age he has to be in constant win-now mode.  Trading superstars for other superstars is pretty much unheard of in the NBA, so they aren't going to get full return on any Cousins move until 2-3 years down the line.  I can't believe that Karl would be very happy about that.

Well, there's also the fact that 2000 Shaq (you're right, that was a typo earlier) blows 2015 DMC out of the water, too.

[saltlover]

As much as I'd like to believe it....I just can't.  I have to believe that Karl not only accepts having Cousins on the team, but wants him there.  He is a one of a kind asset...if the Kings are going to go anywhere, odds are that Cousins is the guy to lead the charge.

I think this is overlooked. People assuming Karl won't/can't coach cousins aren't giving him his due as a coach. It's similar in some ways to assuming Phil Jackson would've traded 2001 Shaq because he'd never coached a dominant back-to-the-basket center before.

Correct.  The only way Cousins is traded is if Karl and Cousins clash, and Karl wants to cement control.  Of course, that just makes Cousins available, but still at a high price.  Karl is a good enough coach to know his best chance at success is with Cousins, and not against him.

[Spilling Green Dye]

I highly doubt Cousins is going anywhere, but my "all in" trade would be:

Wallace, Bradley, Zeller, and 5x 1st rounders
Brooklyn 2016, 2017, 2018, Cleveland (unprotected in 2019), Memphis (2017-2021 lesser protections)

AFAIK that would be the most picks ever traded for one player, and Bradley + Zeller are both useful players.

This would leave us with our own picks, plus a core of:
Smart, Young, Olynyk, Sullinger, Turner, Cousins @ $27M

We could sign 2 max free agents in the offseason, and likely gear up for another S&T the next summer. Let's say Butler & Green, and we draft Cauley-Stein as a high value defensive role player:

Smart / (vet min / exception?)
J Butler / Young
D Green / Turner
Sullinger / Olynyk
Cousins / Cauley-Stein

That team would be scary defensively with up to 5 All-Defensive caliber players (Smart, Butler, Green, Cousins, Cauley-Stein), and multiple scorers (Cousins, Sullinger, Butler, Olynyk and hopefully Young).

We would *still* own all of our own picks, plus anything we get for Bass or Prince or Thornton.

Those Brooklyn picks could easily end up producing multiple players near or better then Cousins. I would give up one of them only.

Two quick points:
1)  We don't have Brooklyn's 2017 draft pick.  Instead, we have the possibility to swap our pick with theirs.

2)  The Brooklyn picks, however you look at it, don't easily have a probability of producing multiple players near or better than Cousins.  This is very wishful thinking.  Having said that...

...I would agree that Bradley, Zeller & 5 1sts is probably too steep for someone.  But I do want to see Cousins.  I'd rather trade our own #1 pick in 2016/2018 than the Brooklyn picks.  I'd be up for something like:

Sullinger, Wallace, Clippers #1, Dallas' pick (from Rondo trade), Celtics 2016 pick, Cleveland pick, and Memphis pick.  If I had to trade a Brooklyn pick I'd trade the 2018 pick.

[LooseCannon]

The idea of trading for Cousins and snagging Taj Gibson in a salary dump from the Bulls, with Olynyk and Bass off the bench next season, has some appeal to me.  (Obviously, I'm thinking of Sullinger being traded in a package for Cousins.)

[heyvik]

As much as I'd like to believe it....I just can't.  I have to believe that Karl not only accepts having Cousins on the team, but wants him there.  He is a one of a kind asset...if the Kings are going to go anywhere, odds are that Cousins is the guy to lead the charge.

I think this is overlooked. People assuming Karl won't/can't coach cousins aren't giving him his due as a coach. It's similar in some ways to assuming Phil Jackson would've traded 2001 Shaq because he'd never coached a dominant back-to-the-basket center before.

Correct.  The only way Cousins is traded is if Karl and Cousins clash, and Karl wants to cement control.  Of course, that just makes Cousins available, but still at a high price.  Karl is a good enough coach to know his best chance at success is with Cousins, and not against him.

As much as a homer as I am , I really don't think Cousins will be traded this deadline. Maybe in the summer but not now. Yes, bringing in a new coach will help to clarify the situation. Based on no NBA games until AFTER the deadline, all we have to go on is conversations between Karl, Kings management and DMC regarding DMC's future. If I'm Karl, why would I want to give away my only ALL-STAR??? And then start over with an overpaid SF (Gay), Ok bench, OK PG (Collison) to me it doesn't make sense. So it looks to me like  this rumor is dead!!!!

[heyvik]

this article on Sactown Royalty is exactly what i mean: http://www.sactownroyalty.com/2015/2/17/8049813/sacramento-kings-demarcus-cousins-trade-rumors-boston-celtics

[letsgoblue86]

If by some miracle we did trade for cousins his first game would be against his old team in Sac.

That would be interesting

[Endless Paradise]

Those Brooklyn picks could easily end up producing multiple players near or better then Cousins. I would give up one of them only.

Easily multiple players better than Cousins? All 3 picks could end up in the lottery and the odds would still be strongly against getting a single All-NBA center. Getting him for 1 of them is laughable.

This is over shooting for a very high risk player. And those Brooklyn picks could easily be top 5 picks. I don't see what's so unlikely that those picks couldn't produce more value then Cousins.

If we were talking about a Russell Westbrook type of player then I would make this trade.

This is what I was getting at when I suggested the fetishization of first rounders in recent times is absolutely ridiculous.

ok Steven A Smith

So disrespectful.

[Celtics4ever]

And yet so true.  Guys over value first round picks and their potential.   

[KeepRondo]

Those Brooklyn picks could easily end up producing multiple players near or better then Cousins. I would give up one of them only.

Easily multiple players better than Cousins? All 3 picks could end up in the lottery and the odds would still be strongly against getting a single All-NBA center. Getting him for 1 of them is laughable.

This is over shooting for a very high risk player. And those Brooklyn picks could easily be top 5 picks. I don't see what's so unlikely that those picks couldn't produce more value then Cousins.

If we were talking about a Russell Westbrook type of player then I would make this trade.

What % of top 5 picks do you think wind up better than Cousins is now?  Some, but not most.  And that's in the unlikely event multiple picks are in the top 5.  Brooklyn's future is looking bad but not that bad.

This is what I was getting at when I suggested the fetishization of first rounders in recent times is absolutely ridiculous.

The nice thing about potential is that it never has to show up to always be present.

I guess that depends on how you value Cousins. Here is a list of guys who were top 10 draft picks from 2007 to 2012.

Anthony Davis
Damian Lilliard
Bradley Beal
Andre Drummond
Kyrie Irving
Brandon Knight
Klay Thompson(11th)
John Wall
Cousins(himself)
Paul George
Blake Griffin
James Harden
Step Curry
Demar DeRozan
Derrick Rose
Russell Westbrook
Kevin Love
Kevin Durant
Mike Conley
Joakim Noah
Al Harford

That's 21 players in 6 draft classes. That is almost 4 players in the top 10 that were great picks. Unless I'm valuing Cousins at the top of this list, then I'm never giving up 2-3 chances at getting picks in this range.

[Cman]

this article on Sactown Royalty is exactly what i mean: http://www.sactownroyalty.com/2015/2/17/8049813/sacramento-kings-demarcus-cousins-trade-rumors-boston-celtics

Yep. Its a nice article. Sacramento is simply not trading Cousins at this point. Maybe over the summer, but not right now. Karl will want to see what he's got, first.

[KeepRondo]

Those Brooklyn picks could easily end up producing multiple players near or better then Cousins. I would give up one of them only.

Easily multiple players better than Cousins? All 3 picks could end up in the lottery and the odds would still be strongly against getting a single All-NBA center. Getting him for 1 of them is laughable.

This is over shooting for a very high risk player. And those Brooklyn picks could easily be top 5 picks. I don't see what's so unlikely that those picks couldn't produce more value then Cousins.

If we were talking about a Russell Westbrook type of player then I would make this trade.

This is what I was getting at when I suggested the fetishization of first rounders in recent times is absolutely ridiculous.

ok Steven A Smith

So disrespectful.

Absolutely just a joke 

[byennie]

I guess that depends on how you value Cousins. Here is a list of guys who were top 10 draft picks from 2007 to 2012.

Anthony Davis
Damian Lilliard
Bradley Beal
Andre Drummond
Kyrie Irving
Brandon Knight
Klay Thompson(11th)
John Wall
Cousins(himself)
Paul George
Blake Griffin
James Harden
Step Curry
Demar DeRozan
Derrick Rose
Russell Westbrook
Kevin Love
Kevin Durant
Mike Conley
Joakim Noah
Al Harford

That's 21 players in 6 draft classes. That is almost 4 players in the top 10 that were great picks. Unless I'm valuing Cousins at the top of this list, then I'm never giving up 2-3 chances at getting picks in this range.

It's a fair point, but I would counter a few things:

1) It's a strong list, but I think Cousins still goes top-10 in a redraft of those years. He's that good... 24-12-3-2-1 and strong defender. After Durant, Davis and maybe one or two other guys he's at least in the 2nd tier. Maybe top 4-8 with George, Westbrook, Curry, Harden. So out of 60 picks, I would say you have about a 1 in 7 shot of getting a player as good or better than Cousins. Picking 3 times less than 50%.

2) You conveniently ran your draft range from Kevin Durant to Anthony Davis. If you include 2004 and 2013 you might get two more guys on the list (Chris Paul and Dwight Howard). Suddenly it's more like 20 players out of 80. Add 2003 and you get that killer draft (LeBron, Carmelo, Wade, Bosh) but they all went top-5 and would be pursued by a major tankathon (see below).

3) The Nets picks are unlikely to be top-5. That would rule out Durant, Davis, Paul, Wall, Westbrook, Harden, Love, Conley, Rose, Irving, Howard and Beal. Brooklyn may be bad, but they are a major market team that doesn't own their own picks. They have no reason to tank and the money to win, despite their roster issues. Even if they are in the lottery every year, it's more likely to be in the 8-14 range. Top-5 would require around 25 wins and down for a team that's likely to be spending $100M with no incentive to lose.

[Celtics4ever]

That's 21 players in 6 draft classes. That is almost 4 players in the top 10 that were great picks. Unless I'm valuing Cousins at the top of this list, then I'm never giving up 2-3 chances at getting picks in this range.

Your assuming that our picks will be in the top range, look at where we stand and where the clips stand our pick has a chance to be outside the top ten and so does the clippers.   In fact, the chances are much higher they will not be top ten.   Next year it may be different but we only have so many minutes to go around and not all the guys will get to develop even if we keep all the picks, which we will not I would wager.

[FreddieJ]

I highly doubt Cousins is going anywhere, but my "all in" trade would be:

Wallace, Bradley, Zeller, and 5x 1st rounders
Brooklyn 2016, 2017, 2018, Cleveland (unprotected in 2019), Memphis (2017-2021 lesser protections)

AFAIK that would be the most picks ever traded for one player, and Bradley + Zeller are both useful players.

This would leave us with our own picks, plus a core of:
Smart, Young, Olynyk, Sullinger, Turner, Cousins @ $27M

We could sign 2 max free agents in the offseason, and likely gear up for another S&T the next summer. Let's say Butler & Green, and we draft Cauley-Stein as a high value defensive role player:

Smart / (vet min / exception?)
J Butler / Young
D Green / Turner
Sullinger / Olynyk
Cousins / Cauley-Stein

That team would be scary defensively with up to 5 All-Defensive caliber players (Smart, Butler, Green, Cousins, Cauley-Stein), and multiple scorers (Cousins, Sullinger, Butler, Olynyk and hopefully Young).

We would *still* own all of our own picks, plus anything we get for Bass or Prince or Thornton.

Those Brooklyn picks could easily end up producing multiple players near or better then Cousins. I would give up one of them only.

Two quick points:
1)  We don't have Brooklyn's 2017 draft pick.  Instead, we have the possibility to swap our pick with theirs.

2)  The Brooklyn picks, however you look at it, don't easily have a probability of producing multiple players near or better than Cousins.  This is very wishful thinking.  Having said that...

...I would agree that Bradley, Zeller & 5 1sts is probably too steep for someone.  But I do want to see Cousins.  I'd rather trade our own #1 pick in 2016/2018 than the Brooklyn picks.  I'd be up for something like:

Sullinger, Wallace, Clippers #1, Dallas' pick (from Rondo trade), Celtics 2016 pick, Cleveland pick, and Memphis pick.  If I had to trade a Brooklyn pick I'd trade the 2018 pick.

For Sacramento to consider moving one of the best talents in the league I'm assuming they'd want major assets. Those look like periphery assets.

Kings hold leverage. He is under contract for three more years and the rest of the league would give quality offers