#DeflateGate (Court of Appeals Reinstates Suspension)

[Celtics4ever]

I think a lot how they reacted was to Brady's not cooperating and him daring them to do something.   Whomever was his handler, was giving him ill suited advice and it forced Goodell to give 4 instead of two which seemed more appropriate as four is what they give for a drug offense and two is what they were going to give Rice for assault.   I certainly did not see them hammering him for four.

[Donoghus]

Ha...anyone following this Barstool thing on Twitter right now?  Some of the guys handcuffed themselves & are staging a sit-in at the NFL offices right now. 

[mahonedog88]

Ted Wells just held a press conference to try and clear his name in this since some people are arguing Wells did a bad job, wasn't independent enough, etc.

The biggest takeaway seems to be that they didn't even consider the crime that bad.  75% of this punishment is based on the fact that Brady and the team didn't cooperate with the investigation, so they basically had to assume their guilty.

The two most important aspects of this is that when Wells asked to talk to McNally one last time after they uncovered the texts and wanted to further question him on it, the team said no.  And then he also cleared up the Brady phone issue, he never asked for Brady's phone.  He asked for Brady to pick out all of the texts that would be considered related to the investigation.  He even said he would take a written transcript of it and "take Brady's word on it"...and Brady still said no.

Now THAT certainly doesn't sound good on Brady's part.  I'd love to hear Brady's side of that story.

[Cman]

Brady will almost certainly appeal.  The interesting question is who will hear the appeal. I believe the CBA allows Goodell to hear it, unless he recuses himself as he did in the Ray Rice issue.

[Cman]

75% of this punishment is based on the fact that Brady and the team didn't cooperate with the investigation, so they basically had to assume their guilty.

But, they did cooperate. The Wells report said so: "the Patriots provided substantial cooperation throughout the investigation" on p. 23, apparently

[knuckleballer]

Ted Wells just held a press conference to try and clear his name in this since some people are arguing Wells did a bad job, wasn't independent enough, etc.

The biggest takeaway seems to be that they didn't even consider the crime that bad.  75% of this punishment is based on the fact that Brady and the team didn't cooperate with the investigation, so they basically had to assume their guilty.

The two most important aspects of this is that when Wells asked to talk to McNally one last time after they uncovered the texts and wanted to further question him on it, the team said no.  And then he also cleared up the Brady phone issue, he never asked for Brady's phone.  He asked for Brady to pick out all of the texts that would be considered related to the investigation.  He even said he would take a written transcript of it and "take Brady's word on it"...and Brady still said no.

Now THAT certainly doesn't sound good on Brady's part.  I'd love to hear Brady's side of that story.

"McNally, the Patriots’ officials locker room attendant, agreed to be interviewed over the phone, but the NFL declined his offer"

 http://nesn.com/2015/05/report-jim-mcnally-was-willing-to-be-questioned-over-phone-nfl-declined/

This is a full fledged soap opera.

[mahonedog88]

75% of this punishment is based on the fact that Brady and the team didn't cooperate with the investigation, so they basically had to assume their guilty.

But, they did cooperate. The Wells report said so: "the Patriots provided substantial cooperation throughout the investigation" on p. 23, apparently

They didn't fully cooperate though.  I'll repeat myself...they didn't allow McNally to be interviewed again by Wells after he uncovered all of the texts that are put in his report.  And then Brady, yes he did answer questions, but when it came to asking for texts from his phone regarding the investigation, he refused.

So sure, they cooperated but not totally...and any sliver of not cooperating is considered detrimental to the league.

And Wells also basically challenged Don Yee to publish his 40 pages of notes that he said he had, and guaranteed nothing will be in there thats newsworthy...so Wells isn't backing down.  It doesn't sound good for the Pats.

I'm really starting to think that the Pats aren't gonna win this one, and are gonna look like fools in the process, if they don't already.  I'm really starting to wonder if Brady was petrified that he DID admit to it right after the AFC championship game, that he'd be suspended for the super bowl, and so he felt he had no choice but to lie.

[mahonedog88]

Ted Wells just held a press conference to try and clear his name in this since some people are arguing Wells did a bad job, wasn't independent enough, etc.

The biggest takeaway seems to be that they didn't even consider the crime that bad.  75% of this punishment is based on the fact that Brady and the team didn't cooperate with the investigation, so they basically had to assume their guilty.

The two most important aspects of this is that when Wells asked to talk to McNally one last time after they uncovered the texts and wanted to further question him on it, the team said no.  And then he also cleared up the Brady phone issue, he never asked for Brady's phone.  He asked for Brady to pick out all of the texts that would be considered related to the investigation.  He even said he would take a written transcript of it and "take Brady's word on it"...and Brady still said no.

Now THAT certainly doesn't sound good on Brady's part.  I'd love to hear Brady's side of that story.

"McNally, the Patriots’ officials locker room attendant, agreed to be interviewed over the phone, but the NFL declined his offer"

 http://nesn.com/2015/05/report-jim-mcnally-was-willing-to-be-questioned-over-phone-nfl-declined/

This is a full fledged soap opera.

Soap opera indeed, it's really becoming unprecedented right now...and while I do think it's dumb that the NFL declined his offer of a phone interview, it's also not the league's duty to cooperate with McNally.  It's McNally's duty to cooperate with the league, and there's a big difference there.  Wells said in his interview that he was willing to travel to New Hampshire to see him and the team still declined, and also said they wouldn't even tell McNally that Wells wanted to see him again.

For this type of interview and investigation, phone interviews aren't enough anyway.  You gotta do this in person because I'm sure they would judge how he says things, how nervous he looks, etc. 

The further this goes along, the worse and worse the Patriots look.  It's getting to the point where they should just admit some wrongdoing and try and make it go away.

[Moranis]

75% of this punishment is based on the fact that Brady and the team didn't cooperate with the investigation, so they basically had to assume their guilty.

But, they did cooperate. The Wells report said so: "the Patriots provided substantial cooperation throughout the investigation" on p. 23, apparently

They didn't fully cooperate though.  I'll repeat myself...they didn't allow McNally to be interviewed again by Wells after he uncovered all of the texts that are put in his report.  And then Brady, yes he did answer questions, but when it came to asking for texts from his phone regarding the investigation, he refused.

So sure, they cooperated but not totally...and any sliver of not cooperating is considered detrimental to the league.

And Wells also basically challenged Don Yee to publish his 40 pages of notes that he said he had, and guaranteed nothing will be in there thats newsworthy...so Wells isn't backing down.  It doesn't sound good for the Pats.

I'm really starting to think that the Pats aren't gonna win this one, and are gonna look like fools in the process, if they don't already.  I'm really starting to wonder if Brady was petrified that he DID admit to it right after the AFC championship game, that he'd be suspended for the super bowl, and so he felt he had no choice but to lie.

Danny Kanell on Mike and Mike this morning said Brady should have held a press conference immediately after the AFC title game (after the story leaked) and said something like "I prefer my footballs to be on the low end of the legal spectrum.  I have made that known to the Patriots staff.  I certainly never asked anyone to underinflate the balls to illegal limits and do not believe anyone intentionally did that.  If any of the balls were below the limit as a result of any comments I've made, then I am sorry."  According to Kanell something like that would have pretty much ended the inquiry before it started and at most Brady would have been fined.

[Cman]

75% of this punishment is based on the fact that Brady and the team didn't cooperate with the investigation, so they basically had to assume their guilty.

But, they did cooperate. The Wells report said so: "the Patriots provided substantial cooperation throughout the investigation" on p. 23, apparently

They didn't fully cooperate though.  I'll repeat myself...they didn't allow McNally to be interviewed again by Wells after he uncovered all of the texts that are put in his report.  And then Brady, yes he did answer questions, but when it came to asking for texts from his phone regarding the investigation, he refused.

So sure, they cooperated but not totally...and any sliver of not cooperating is considered detrimental to the league.

And Wells also basically challenged Don Yee to publish his 40 pages of notes that he said he had, and guaranteed nothing will be in there thats newsworthy...so Wells isn't backing down.  It doesn't sound good for the Pats.

I'm really starting to think that the Pats aren't gonna win this one, and are gonna look like fools in the process, if they don't already.  I'm really starting to wonder if Brady was petrified that he DID admit to it right after the AFC championship game, that he'd be suspended for the super bowl, and so he felt he had no choice but to lie.

On the contrary, I think this is looking worse and worse for Goodell. Yeah, he got some applause from the many Pats haters out there, but there's also a lot of criticism of Goodell. Deflategate is now refered to as a "mess" -- not a neatly tied up and concluded event.

[mahonedog88]

75% of this punishment is based on the fact that Brady and the team didn't cooperate with the investigation, so they basically had to assume their guilty.

But, they did cooperate. The Wells report said so: "the Patriots provided substantial cooperation throughout the investigation" on p. 23, apparently

They didn't fully cooperate though.  I'll repeat myself...they didn't allow McNally to be interviewed again by Wells after he uncovered all of the texts that are put in his report.  And then Brady, yes he did answer questions, but when it came to asking for texts from his phone regarding the investigation, he refused.

So sure, they cooperated but not totally...and any sliver of not cooperating is considered detrimental to the league.

And Wells also basically challenged Don Yee to publish his 40 pages of notes that he said he had, and guaranteed nothing will be in there thats newsworthy...so Wells isn't backing down.  It doesn't sound good for the Pats.

I'm really starting to think that the Pats aren't gonna win this one, and are gonna look like fools in the process, if they don't already.  I'm really starting to wonder if Brady was petrified that he DID admit to it right after the AFC championship game, that he'd be suspended for the super bowl, and so he felt he had no choice but to lie.

Danny Kanell on Mike and Mike this morning said Brady should have held a press conference immediately after the AFC title game (after the story leaked) and said something like "I prefer my footballs to be on the low end of the legal spectrum.  I have made that known to the Patriots staff.  I certainly never asked anyone to underinflate the balls to illegal limits and do not believe anyone intentionally did that.  If any of the balls were below the limit as a result of any comments I've made, then I am sorry."  According to Kanell something like that would have pretty much ended the inquiry before it started and at most Brady would have been fined.

It's easy to say that now in hindsight, he very well may be right.  But in Brady's position at the time, with national media outlets from all over the country questioning whether or not you're cheater, it looks like he panicked, and felt denying was the best way to go...which when you look at it now, might've been the wrong decision. 

[Moranis]

75% of this punishment is based on the fact that Brady and the team didn't cooperate with the investigation, so they basically had to assume their guilty.

But, they did cooperate. The Wells report said so: "the Patriots provided substantial cooperation throughout the investigation" on p. 23, apparently

They didn't fully cooperate though.  I'll repeat myself...they didn't allow McNally to be interviewed again by Wells after he uncovered all of the texts that are put in his report.  And then Brady, yes he did answer questions, but when it came to asking for texts from his phone regarding the investigation, he refused.

So sure, they cooperated but not totally...and any sliver of not cooperating is considered detrimental to the league.

And Wells also basically challenged Don Yee to publish his 40 pages of notes that he said he had, and guaranteed nothing will be in there thats newsworthy...so Wells isn't backing down.  It doesn't sound good for the Pats.

I'm really starting to think that the Pats aren't gonna win this one, and are gonna look like fools in the process, if they don't already.  I'm really starting to wonder if Brady was petrified that he DID admit to it right after the AFC championship game, that he'd be suspended for the super bowl, and so he felt he had no choice but to lie.

Danny Kanell on Mike and Mike this morning said Brady should have held a press conference immediately after the AFC title game (after the story leaked) and said something like "I prefer my footballs to be on the low end of the legal spectrum.  I have made that known to the Patriots staff.  I certainly never asked anyone to underinflate the balls to illegal limits and do not believe anyone intentionally did that.  If any of the balls were below the limit as a result of any comments I've made, then I am sorry."  According to Kanell something like that would have pretty much ended the inquiry before it started and at most Brady would have been fined.

It's easy to say that now in hindsight, he very well may be right.  But in Brady's position at the time, with national media outlets from all over the country questioning whether or not you're cheater, it looks like he panicked, and felt denying was the best way to go...which when you look at it now, might've been the wrong decision.

Telling the truth is never the wrong decision.

[mahonedog88]

75% of this punishment is based on the fact that Brady and the team didn't cooperate with the investigation, so they basically had to assume their guilty.

But, they did cooperate. The Wells report said so: "the Patriots provided substantial cooperation throughout the investigation" on p. 23, apparently

They didn't fully cooperate though.  I'll repeat myself...they didn't allow McNally to be interviewed again by Wells after he uncovered all of the texts that are put in his report.  And then Brady, yes he did answer questions, but when it came to asking for texts from his phone regarding the investigation, he refused.

So sure, they cooperated but not totally...and any sliver of not cooperating is considered detrimental to the league.

And Wells also basically challenged Don Yee to publish his 40 pages of notes that he said he had, and guaranteed nothing will be in there thats newsworthy...so Wells isn't backing down.  It doesn't sound good for the Pats.

I'm really starting to think that the Pats aren't gonna win this one, and are gonna look like fools in the process, if they don't already.  I'm really starting to wonder if Brady was petrified that he DID admit to it right after the AFC championship game, that he'd be suspended for the super bowl, and so he felt he had no choice but to lie.

On the contrary, I think this is looking worse and worse for Goodell. Yeah, he got some applause from the many Pats haters out there, but there's also a lot of criticism of Goodell. Deflategate is now refered to as a "mess" -- not a neatly tied up and concluded event.

The criticism of Goodell is completely warranted, although you could argue it's really criticism of the league, because Wells said in his phone conference that while he doesn't know for sure, by all accounts, he thinks that Goodell had no knowledge of the initial complaint by the Colts.

The Patriots not cooperating looks to be THE key in all of this.  It's giving me no choice but to assume that this ball deflating goes waaaay back.  The Patriots saw what was coming when they saw what happened in the Bountygate scandal.  The league initially interviewed Gregg Williams, then after they got all their evidence, they called him back in, showed him the evidence, and he basically had no choice but to admit to everything because they were caught.

I think the Patriots saw that, saw that they wanted to interview McNally about the texts ("the deflator" or "I'll go to ESPN...") and then basically weighed their options.  What's worse, falling on the grenade and taking a 4 game suspension for Brady with a fine and lost draft pick for impeding the investigation?  Or having Jim McNally nailed and then possibly seeing a year-long suspension for maybe Belichick, maybe Brady?  They felt the punishment they got for all this was still better than what would've happened if they uncovered EVERYTHING

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

consistent with other high profile cases, huh


Sure......



This punishment TOTALLY fits the crime


What's your favorite nfl team, granath?

I've already mentioned that I no longer watch the NFL, in large part due to Goodell's rulings in the NFL. But yes, go back a couple of pages and you'll see my post which details that this is entirely consistent with other high profile cases in the NFL.

Note, I am not saying the punishment fit the crime. It does not. Neither did the punishment for the Saints (incredibly overboard and unjustly accused some players of participating). Or for Ben Roethlisberger (zero proof, no probable cause, no charges). Or Goodell's second try at Ray Rice (outside the boundaries of the CBA to punish someone twice). Or Adrian Peterson (again, outside the CBA). So on and so forth. What is the commonality of these cases? The Saints case was right in the middle of the concussion debacle. Big Ben is a high profile player. Ray Rice's TMZ video tape and the backlash against the paltry two game suspension. Peterson's abuse case coming on the heels of the Rice debacle. In short, the commonality is that all of these hit mainstream media.

Essentially, there's two tiers of punishment for Goodell. There's the normal suspensions and fines - the everyday comings and goings in the NFL. Then there's the ones with a lot of media scrutiny and Roger's MO is to go overboard on these to show everyone how tough he is. It makes for a very uneven system of punishment.

While we will never know whether this is true or not, I believe that if the Patriots lost the Super Bowl the punishment would have far less severe. But the "appearance" is that the Patriots cheated their way to a Super Bowl win and thus you have what was handed down yesterday. Remember when the Steelers had that coach that accidentally stepped on to the field and impacted the game. The rumor was that the Steelers were going to fined a draft pick. Only after they failed to make the playoffs was it leaked that there would be no further punishment. Had the Steelers made the playoffs, I would place a bet that they would have lost that draft pick. Why? Because the incident would have had a higher profile.

So the narrative that the NFL has two sets of rules - one for the Patriots and one for everyone else - is laughable. It's simply not the case. There ARE two sets of rules - one for high-profile media cases and one for those that aren't. It's just Roger being Roger.

So how did the Vikings heating up footballs on the sidelines, on national TV, not become a high-profile case of cheating? Doesn't get more blatant than that.

Your very question is further evidence for the point I made.

Not to mention there's a big difference between unknowingly breaking a rule and purposely breaking one (and hiding it and lying about it).

Wait, wait, wait. How do you know that the Vikings unknowingly broke that rule? Can you get inside their heads? Or did they say they did it unknowingly and you just take them at their word? How do professional football players not know the rules for how the footballs are supposed to be treated? Lots of people are vilifying Brady for claiming ignorance, yet similar ignorance (if true) in the Vikings' case is acceptable? Did the Chargers "unknowingly" use stickum on their towels? Were they not intending to break a rule?

I've read pretty much this entire thread, and I've held back from sounding off, but I can't hold off any longer. So here goes.

First, A GIANT DISCLAIMER: I'm a Patriots fan.

Second: I think there was something hinky going on with the Patriots and they deserve some punishment. The punishment could even be a bit stiffer than what the NFL's bylaws prescribe, since this Patriot regime is a repeat offender when it comes to breaking rules.

Third: All that said, I think this situation is absurd.

I think Roger Goodell cares more about his own image and legacy than he does about "the integrity of the shield."

I think that, for a lot of people, this is not about integrity but about sticking it to a team they despise.

I think DeflateGate is the culmination of a monthslong (or even yearslong) attempt by certain teams (and perhaps the league) to take the Pats down several pegs.

I think every other team is snickering joyously right now because most (if not all) of them have cheated in various ways (stickum, heated footballs, linemen putting slick substances on their jerseys) and essentially gotten away with it (oooooh, a $20,000 fine!), and now all the attention is on New England.

I think the NFL is foolish for not having a more secure protocol for game balls in the first place.

I think the NFL is foolish for even having a rule about air pressure. Who's to say what's "an acceptable PSI," or even "an acceptable range of PSI"? Brady likes the footballs below the legal limit; Rodgers like them above the legal limit. Why can't the league let each team decide for itself, and go with what's most comfortable to that set of QBs and receivers? Besides that, the current range seems arbitrary.

I'm not sure that I'd automatically hand over my phone to my employer, even if I was innocent.

I'm not sure why some people think this case involved more deliberate intent than, say, stickum on towels that other teams have been guilty of. And do you really think that was the first and only time those teams used stickum?

Yes, I'm riled up. Call me a deluded Patriots fan, but I don't think I'm deluded. I recognize that certain people involved with the Patriots did certain wrong things, but I also think this punishment was excessive. People say that the Patriots have cheated before; well, that's not exactly true. There have been multiple incidents involving various Patriots personnel, but they didn't always involve the same personnel. To our knowledge, Brady never lied or cheated or tried circumventing the rules before; he had no priors.

Whatever. Hopefully at least Brady's suspension is lowered.

[Cman]

Well, the Donald thinks Brady should sue the NFL for $250M for defamation.
Always the entertainer, Donald, always the entertainer.

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=12872719