#DeflateGate (Court of Appeals Reinstates Suspension)

[knuckleballer]

I don't have time to read all 89 pages.  Can someone give me a short summary of the Wells Report?  Did they find conclusive proof that the staff intentionally deflated the balls?  I thought it was just speculation without any evidence.  Did they find some?

It's just speculation.  There isn't even conclusive proof that the balls were even deflated.  Temperature and rain, as per the report, may explain everything.

I haven't read the actual report, but the article I just read about the Brady suspension makes it seem like there are text messages that prove the guilt of two staffers (McNally and Jastremski) and that there may have been texts from Brady that they also saw.  No?

 No texts prove guilt. There were no texts that specifically mention tampering.  There was a text message conversation between the two after a game against the Jets.  Apparently, Brady was upset that some of the balls felt overinflated.  Jastremski tested them the next day and found some pumped up close to 16 (12.5 to 13.5 is regulation). Jastremski pointed this out to McNally and told him that they should have been 13 and to not let the refs overinflate.  A few days later Jastremski texted McNally that he spoke again with Brady and he wanted them at 12.5 and to hand a copy of the rule book to the refs if they have a problem with that.  Within those conversations Jastremski and McNally had a lot of friendly banter and jokes.  The most incriminating text was McNally referring to himself as the "deflator".  Also there was a text about Jastremski giving McNally a needle.  They explained that comment to be about Jastremskig forgetting to give him a needle earlier in the season for a pump that McNally provides to the refs.  There were no actual texts from Brady until after the controversy began.  He texted Jastremski to call him which Wells found suspicious and texted to Jastremski to not worry as he had done nothing wrong. 

[rondohondo]

Pats announce their newest signing

[Monkhouse]

I don't have time to read all 89 pages.  Can someone give me a short summary of the Wells Report?  Did they find conclusive proof that the staff intentionally deflated the balls?  I thought it was just speculation without any evidence.  Did they find some?

It's just speculation.  There isn't even conclusive proof that the balls were even deflated.  Temperature and rain, as per the report, may explain everything.

I haven't read the actual report, but the article I just read about the Brady suspension makes it seem like there are text messages that prove the guilt of two staffers (McNally and Jastremski) and that there may have been texts from Brady that they also saw.  No?

 No texts prove guilt. There were no texts that specifically mention tampering.  There was a text message conversation between the two after a game against the Jets.  Apparently, Brady was upset that some of the balls felt overinflated.  Jastremski tested them the next day and found some pumped up close to 16 (12.5 to 13.5 is regulation). Jastremski pointed this out to McNally and told him that they should have been 13 and to not let the refs overinflate.  A few days later Jastremski texted McNally that he spoke again with Brady and he wanted them at 12.5 and to hand a copy of the rule book to the refs if they have a problem with that.  Within those conversations Jastremski and McNally had a lot of friendly banter and jokes.  The most incriminating text was McNally referring to himself as the "deflator".  Also there was a text about Jastremski giving McNally a needle.  They explained that comment to be about Jastremskig forgetting to give him a needle earlier in the season for a pump that McNally provides to the refs.  There were no actual texts from Brady until after the controversy began.  He texted Jastremski to call him which Wells found suspicious and texted to Jastremski to not worry as he had done nothing wrong.

TP.

I was also not trying to read all those pages either, although I got a general gist of what had occurred.

[Celtics4ever]

NFL does not have to prove guilt, this is not a judicial system it is a corporation with a code of conduct.

[GratefulCs]

Pats announce their newest signing

major TP

[kozlodoev]

The most incriminating text was McNally referring to himself as the "deflator".  Also there was a text about Jastremski giving McNally a needle.

The timeline is curious, though. McNally refers to himself as "the deflator" smack in the middle of the offseason (what balls would he be deflating in May 2014, I wonder?!). The needle texts don't come until October, so that part didn't make much sense.

Also, I thought that the most incriminating text was the one Brady sent to Jastremski, in which he says that Dave [Schoenfeld, Patriots equipment manager] will come to pick Jastremski's brain -- and that Dave knows "it's unrealistic he [meaning Jastremski] did it himself". So this as a minimum establishes that something was done and that Brady was at least aware after the fact.

[knuckleballer]

The most incriminating text was McNally referring to himself as the "deflator".  Also there was a text about Jastremski giving McNally a needle.

The timeline is curious, though. McNally refers to himself as "the deflator" smack in the middle of the offseason (what balls would he be deflating in May 2014, I wonder?!). The needle texts don't come until October, so that part didn't make much sense.

Also, I thought that the most incriminating text was the one Brady sent to Jastremski, in which he says that Dave [Schoenfeld, Patriots equipment manager] will come to pick Jastremski's brain -- and that Dave knows "it's unrealistic he [meaning Jastremski] did it himself". So this as a minimum establishes that something was done and that Brady was at least aware after the fact.

"FYI...Dave will be picking your brain later about it. He?s not accusing me, or anyone...trying to get to bottom of it. He knows it?s unrealistic you did it yourself..."
In Belichick's press conference, he explained how they tried to get to the bottom of how the balls were below pressure as all the ball were.  They examined weather, gas laws, and how ball preparation could contribute.  So, wouldn't it make sense to pick the brain of the guy who is in charge of ball preparation? So much of Wells report takes single text messages and heavily analyzes them while leaving out the greater context of the conversation.

McNally calling himself the deflator is the one thing that gives me pause.  But if he was in fact deflating footballs, why was Jastremski expecting the balls to measure at 13 after the Jets game?  That doesn't make sense.  McNally also made jokes about blowing the balls up to the size of watermelons and rugby balls and made jokes about Spygate as if he was actively filming other teams practices and running out of tape even though tape isn't used anymore.  We also know that Wells was leaving text messages out of the report that gave greater context as per this article.  http://www.csnne.com/new-england-patriots/wells-report-lost-text-messages

[mef730]

I feel like everyone who's been involved has said that a first rounder is severe and/or beyond their expectations. I don't think anyone was calling for it?

Had it been just a first-rounder, I would have thought it was harsh (although I did joke upthread that, if Brady were suspended and we got a top-5 draft pick because we sucked, someone would complain that we benefited from Brady's misdeeds).  The package that the NFL handed down is drop-dead astoundingly over the top.  20 years for a parking violation.

You know who I feel worst for in all of this?


The two scrubs from Rutgers who won't get any guaranteed draft pick money from the Pats because of those lost draft selections.

TP for making me laugh.

I took a quick look through my phone's text messages and, were somebody to go through them, there's a heck of a lot of room for misinterpretation.  And for the guys out there: No matter how much your sister-in-law's ultrasound looks like a miniature version of Lord Voldemort, you'd be wise to keep that information to yourself.  Just saying.

Mike

[kozlodoev]

"FYI...Dave will be picking your brain later about it. He?s not accusing me, or anyone...trying to get to bottom of it. He knows it?s unrealistic you did it yourself..."
In Belichick's press conference, he explained how they tried to get to the bottom of how the balls were below pressure as all the ball were.  They examined weather, gas laws, and how ball preparation could contribute.  So, wouldn't it make sense to pick the brain of the guy who is in charge of ball preparation? So much of Wells report takes single text messages and heavily analyzes them while leaving out the greater context of the conversation.

I understand that. But there are some reads of this text that don't come out exactly flattering to Brady:

One read is: We know what/how happen, Schoenfeld just thinks it's unrealistic you PERSONALLY did it.

An alternative read: We're not sure what/how happened, but whatever it was it is Schoenfeld thinks it is unrealistic that YOU did it.

I leaned towards the former, but now I can easily see how it could be the latter. Humbug.

[kozlodoev]

I feel like everyone who's been involved has said that a first rounder is severe and/or beyond their expectations. I don't think anyone was calling for it?

Had it been just a first-rounder, I would have thought it was harsh (although I did joke upthread that, if Brady were suspended and we got a top-5 draft pick because we sucked, someone would complain that we benefited from Brady's misdeeds).  The package that the NFL handed down is drop-dead astoundingly over the top.  20 years for a parking violation.

The logic that someone trotted out there today morning on sports talk radio was that the team penalty is an increment above what was handed down for Spygate, and the Brady penalty is pretty much a first-offender PED discipline. It is some kind of logic, but in view of the NFL's body of work on equipment violations, it surely is excessive.

[Donoghus]

I feel like everyone who's been involved has said that a first rounder is severe and/or beyond their expectations. I don't think anyone was calling for it?

Had it been just a first-rounder, I would have thought it was harsh (although I did joke upthread that, if Brady were suspended and we got a top-5 draft pick because we sucked, someone would complain that we benefited from Brady's misdeeds).  The package that the NFL handed down is drop-dead astoundingly over the top.  20 years for a parking violation.

The logic that someone trotted out there today morning on sports talk radio was that the team penalty is an increment above what was handed down for Spygate, and the Brady penalty is pretty much a first-offender PED discipline. It is some kind of logic, but in view of the NFL's body of work on equipment violations, it surely is excessive.

Here's what I don't get there.  Spygate was a Belichick thing.  And he got nailed to the wall for it back in 2007. He was absolved on any wrongdoing in the Wells report. Essentially, he had nothing to do with Deflategate.  With Brady, its vice-versa with both instances.

Yet, the NFL league office decides to whack the organization anyways by yanking away a 1st rounder & 4th rounder plus the million dollar fine.

[knuckleballer]

"FYI...Dave will be picking your brain later about it. He?s not accusing me, or anyone...trying to get to bottom of it. He knows it?s unrealistic you did it yourself..."
In Belichick's press conference, he explained how they tried to get to the bottom of how the balls were below pressure as all the ball were.  They examined weather, gas laws, and how ball preparation could contribute.  So, wouldn't it make sense to pick the brain of the guy who is in charge of ball preparation? So much of Wells report takes single text messages and heavily analyzes them while leaving out the greater context of the conversation.

I understand that. But there are some reads of this text that don't come out exactly flattering to Brady:

One read is: We know what/how happen, Schoenfeld just thinks it's unrealistic you PERSONALLY did it.

An alternative read: We're not sure what/how happened, but whatever it was it is Schoenfeld thinks it is unrealistic that YOU did it.

I leaned towards the former, but now I can easily see how it could be the latter. Humbug.

Another interpretation is:  The balls are under pressure and we have no idea how this happened.  We are now investigating.  Schoenfeld is going to ask you some questions since you are the one in charge of the footballs.  But don't be nervous, no one is accusing you of doing anything wrong.  We are just trying to figure it out. 

Personally, I think that is exactly the logical communication and steps to take when trying to solve such a mystery.

[kozlodoev]

I feel like everyone who's been involved has said that a first rounder is severe and/or beyond their expectations. I don't think anyone was calling for it?

Had it been just a first-rounder, I would have thought it was harsh (although I did joke upthread that, if Brady were suspended and we got a top-5 draft pick because we sucked, someone would complain that we benefited from Brady's misdeeds).  The package that the NFL handed down is drop-dead astoundingly over the top.  20 years for a parking violation.

The logic that someone trotted out there today morning on sports talk radio was that the team penalty is an increment above what was handed down for Spygate, and the Brady penalty is pretty much a first-offender PED discipline. It is some kind of logic, but in view of the NFL's body of work on equipment violations, it surely is excessive.

Here's what I don't get there.  Spygate was a Belichick thing.  And he got nailed to the wall for it back in 2007. He was absolved on any wrongdoing in the Wells report. Essentially, he had nothing to do with Deflategate.  With Brady, its vice-versa with both instances.

Yet, the NFL league office decides to whack the organization anyways by yanking away a 1st rounder & 4th rounder plus the million dollar fine.

Curiously, Belichick wasn't penalized individually neither for Spygate nor right now. But that's beside the point. The repeat violator penalty here is essentially "we warned you, yet you allowed this to happen on your watch again" type of affair. Not that I find it particularly reasonable, but that's the logic.

[kozlodoev]

"FYI...Dave will be picking your brain later about it. He?s not accusing me, or anyone...trying to get to bottom of it. He knows it?s unrealistic you did it yourself..."
In Belichick's press conference, he explained how they tried to get to the bottom of how the balls were below pressure as all the ball were.  They examined weather, gas laws, and how ball preparation could contribute.  So, wouldn't it make sense to pick the brain of the guy who is in charge of ball preparation? So much of Wells report takes single text messages and heavily analyzes them while leaving out the greater context of the conversation.

I understand that. But there are some reads of this text that don't come out exactly flattering to Brady:

One read is: We know what/how happen, Schoenfeld just thinks it's unrealistic you PERSONALLY did it.

An alternative read: We're not sure what/how happened, but whatever it was it is Schoenfeld thinks it is unrealistic that YOU did it.

I leaned towards the former, but now I can easily see how it could be the latter. Humbug.

Another interpretation is:  The balls are under pressure and we have no idea how this happened.  We are now investigating.  Schoenfeld is going to ask you some questions since you are the one in charge of the footballs.  But don't be nervous, no one is accusing you of doing anything wrong.  We are just trying to figure it out. 

Personally, I think that is exactly the logical communication and steps to take when trying to solve such a mystery.

Maybe, but it's still a curious choice of language.

[Donoghus]

I feel like everyone who's been involved has said that a first rounder is severe and/or beyond their expectations. I don't think anyone was calling for it?

Had it been just a first-rounder, I would have thought it was harsh (although I did joke upthread that, if Brady were suspended and we got a top-5 draft pick because we sucked, someone would complain that we benefited from Brady's misdeeds).  The package that the NFL handed down is drop-dead astoundingly over the top.  20 years for a parking violation.

The logic that someone trotted out there today morning on sports talk radio was that the team penalty is an increment above what was handed down for Spygate, and the Brady penalty is pretty much a first-offender PED discipline. It is some kind of logic, but in view of the NFL's body of work on equipment violations, it surely is excessive.

Here's what I don't get there.  Spygate was a Belichick thing.  And he got nailed to the wall for it back in 2007. He was absolved on any wrongdoing in the Wells report. Essentially, he had nothing to do with Deflategate.  With Brady, its vice-versa with both instances.

Yet, the NFL league office decides to whack the organization anyways by yanking away a 1st rounder & 4th rounder plus the million dollar fine.

Curiously, Belichick wasn't penalized individually neither for Spygate nor right now. But that's beside the point. The repeat violator penalty here is essentially "we warned you, yet you allowed this to happen on your watch again" type of affair. Not that I find it particularly reasonable, but that's the logic.

Belichick was fined $500,000 for Spygate.