#DeflateGate (Court of Appeals Reinstates Suspension)

[scaryjerry]

This is why I'd now question even the facts when they do come out.  If the NFL came right out and said, hey ball #1 was inflated to X at halftime, ball #2 was Y, and so on and so on for all the balls on both the Colts and Patriots I'd have had no choice but to believe them.  The Ref should have come out right away and said, "hey I inflated or deflated each ball to X, I used this gauge, the balls weren't noticeably warm or cold for either team," but now it seems like he is in the witness protection program.  I don't trust anything the NFL says from here on out.  This has been horribly mismanaged.  Did the NFL let the Patriots play with under inflated footballs for the first half of the AFC Championship game?  If they did, it can't be a big deal or the NFL has literally no credibility.  If it isn't a big deal... what the heck is going on with a special investigator and a months long investigation planned.

What? we know what happened in regards to the disccovery of the ball. I've already quoted this once:

According to a person familiar with the background of the matter, the Colts first noticed something unusual after an interception by Colts linebacker D’Qwell Jackson in the second quarter. Jackson gave the ball to a member of the Colts' equipment staff, who noticed the ball seemed underinflated and then notified coach Chuck Pagano.

General manager Ryan Grigson was notified in the press box, and he contacted Mike Kensil, NFL director of football operations. Kensil then told the on-field officials at halftime, when the Patriots led 17-7.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/football/super-bowl/nfl-opens-patriots-deflated-football-probe-after-afc-championship-win-1.9821346

This has been refuted... Jackson, the colts player, denied it himself.

[rondohondo]

If I was Kraft, I'd be peeved too.  That's multiple leaks that make his organization look bad.  Both, seemingly, coming from the NFL. 

That press conference certainly sounded like he was going all in that the Pats are innocent of any wrongdoing.  Awfully ballsy thing to do if you're lying.

Yeah, but people do it all the time (see Lance Armstrong, Roger Clemens, etc.).  Kraft didn't come off credible at all.  In fact no one has come off as credible for the Patriots.  (For the record, I am not a Patriots, Colts, or Seahawks fan so I could really care less about this from that perspective).

Sure, people do it all the time. There are also plenty of people who actually have been innocent.  Now, I have no idea how this thing will settle when everything is said & done but to have the head coach have two press conferences about it, the starting QB have one, and now the owner?  All denying any guilt?  If they are actually guilty, this is one helluva leap of faith to be taking. 

However, you are an admitted Ravens fan, right?  Might be a little skewed, don't you you think?

EDIT:  And, full disclosure, I do root for the Pats.  Like to think I'm more level headed than a lot of Pats fans out there right now but I do root for them.

I am a Ravens fan, but again I don't think that has much to do with this situation.

I just don't find it as credible.  I mean if the Colts defensive player on an interception could immediately tell something was wrong with the ball, how the hell did none of the Patriots know this. 

Brady looks especially bad.  At one point saying he can't tell the difference, but at another saying he likes a softer ball.  Well which is it?

The colts player already said he didn't know or say that the ball was softer or anything , and it didn't come from him .

[kozlodoev]

I just don't find it as credible.  I mean if the Colts defensive player on an interception could immediately tell something was wrong with the ball, how the hell did none of the Patriots know this.

You're a bit behind on the material here. D'Quell Jackson has already denied noticing anything out of the ordinary with the ball. Also, it's worth noting that the officiating crew handled all balls for the entire first half without any concerns.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2015/01/22/colts-jackson-says-he-noticed-nothing-wrong-with-football/22179117/

[Cman]

If I was Kraft, I'd be peeved too.  That's multiple leaks that make his organization look bad.  Both, seemingly, coming from the NFL. 

That press conference certainly sounded like he was going all in that the Pats are innocent of any wrongdoing.  Awfully ballsy thing to do if you're lying.

Yeah, but people do it all the time (see Lance Armstrong, Roger Clemens, etc.).  Kraft didn't come off credible at all.  In fact no one has come off as credible for the Patriots.  (For the record, I am not a Patriots, Colts, or Seahawks fan so I could really care less about this from that perspective).

People do it -- ie when you're in deep, may as well go deeper in the hopes that you aren't found out.

But, on the margin, BB, TB and Kraft all vehemently denying anything moves the needle closer to "the Pats did nothing wrong" , at least in my book. If instead they were all "no comment" I'd be more prone to think they were hiding something.

The broader point with Kraft's speech is that the media has been totally ridiculous about all of this: seizing on the very slimmest whispers of different rumors, blowing them out of proportion, mis-reporting things, etc. At this point, I honestly don't know why anyone would knowingly choose to believe a rumor, especially one coming out of ESPN.

[danglertx]

Mortenson was just on weei , some points he made

My reactions in parenthesis

- Colts didn't complain after the november game, waited until the day of AFC Championships.  Before games teams write down things for the refs to look out for (formations,substitutions, etc).

- He originally reported that 11 of 12 balls were 2 psi under, but it has since been reported that is not correct and that 10 of the balls were closer to 1 psi under

( very curious if the one 2psi under was the ball brought to the indy equipment guy)

- He kept asking why the colts balls were not under and the pats were . He says the colts like their balls at the lower end of the legal psi.

(I think you have to ask if the colts balls were filled out in the cold , while the pats were filled inside . Also do the colts keep their game balls near a heater or anything ? Do they rub the balls down that generates heat like the Pats say they did?)

If Mortenson reported all the balls were 2psi low, and now only one was and the others close to 1psi low, either he can't understand basic conversations or his source is lying to him, feeding him info that makes the Patriots look bad.  Either way, the guy's credibility is dead to me if the 1psi thing turns out to be accurate, which amazingly we still don't know, which just makes the NFL look worse and worse.

How can the NFL just sit by and let all this false information out there, and some of it contradicts itself so it has to be false that makes the Patriots look guilty.  If I were Kraft I'd demand Goodell resign after this.  This could seriously cost Kraft tens of millions of dollars in the value of his brand, maybe hundreds of millions.  Not just the Patriots Team value but lost merchandising and if the distractions cost him a Super Bowl, which could never be determined, could that even have a money value on it? 

And now you have these insidious leaks coming out like, the attendant, whatever that is, took the balls into a one room bathroom that locks.... wait for it.... FROM THE INSIDE!  GUILTY!  He didn't go to the bathroom in a restroom that locked from the outside... nooooooo he went to one that locked on the inside.  I ask you, is that the actions of a man who is deflating his bladder or his balls?  I think we all know. 

By the way, bathrooms that lock from the outside are called prison cells.

[kraidstar]

The bottom line is that it appears that the balls can pretty much be tracked from inspection to the game. Will the NFL will be trying to convince us that one dude was able to doctor 12 footballs in 90 seconds in a bathroom (for the record, that's 7.5 secs per ball, not accounting for taking them out of the zipper bag and putting them back in)?!

Apparently, at least one source is saying that that's actually plausible. 

So can 12 (or in this case 11) footballs be deflated in that amount of time?  One league source with extensive knowledge and experience in the NFL believes that 90 seconds provides enough time to do it — especially if the type of bag allowed the valves to be accessed without individually removing them.  (The bag in the photo, for example, has a large zipper that when open permits quick access to the balls.)

The source called it as “easy” thing to do. “Needle in each ball for a couple of seconds,” the source said.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/27/can-a-bag-of-footballs-be-deflated-in-90-seconds/

This is absurd at this point.

i think the trolls are underestimating how uncomfortable it would be bending over in a bathroom with a needle in one hand, taking out the football with the other hand, turning/holding/stabilizing the football with the same hand, then getting that needle in that little hole and deflating to the perfect amount, all in a few seconds.
anybody who has used footballs knows that they're tricky to handle, especially with one hand.
and the fact that people are quibbling over a few seconds of deflation or 1 PSI or weather factors or whatever just proves how stupid this whole debate is.

[BballTim]

The bottom line is that it appears that the balls can pretty much be tracked from inspection to the game. Will the NFL will be trying to convince us that one dude was able to doctor 12 footballs in 90 seconds in a bathroom (for the record, that's 7.5 secs per ball, not accounting for taking them out of the zipper bag and putting them back in)?!

Apparently, at least one source is saying that that's actually plausible. 

So can 12 (or in this case 11) footballs be deflated in that amount of time?  One league source with extensive knowledge and experience in the NFL believes that 90 seconds provides enough time to do it — especially if the type of bag allowed the valves to be accessed without individually removing them.  (The bag in the photo, for example, has a large zipper that when open permits quick access to the balls.)

The source called it as “easy” thing to do. “Needle in each ball for a couple of seconds,” the source said.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/27/can-a-bag-of-footballs-be-deflated-in-90-seconds/

This is absurd at this point.

  All of those discussions assume that the balls were properly inflated (and measured to be properly inflated) to begin with. While I haven't followed the story as closely as many, unless the NFL has stated that the balls had their PSI measured with a gauge before the game, you can't assume that happened. It's much more likely the balls were never fully inflated than they were fully inflated and then deflated.

[celticsclay]

The bottom line is that it appears that the balls can pretty much be tracked from inspection to the game. Will the NFL will be trying to convince us that one dude was able to doctor 12 footballs in 90 seconds in a bathroom (for the record, that's 7.5 secs per ball, not accounting for taking them out of the zipper bag and putting them back in)?!

Apparently, at least one source is saying that that's actually plausible. 

So can 12 (or in this case 11) footballs be deflated in that amount of time?  One league source with extensive knowledge and experience in the NFL believes that 90 seconds provides enough time to do it — especially if the type of bag allowed the valves to be accessed without individually removing them.  (The bag in the photo, for example, has a large zipper that when open permits quick access to the balls.)

The source called it as “easy” thing to do. “Needle in each ball for a couple of seconds,” the source said.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/27/can-a-bag-of-footballs-be-deflated-in-90-seconds/

This is absurd at this point.

that article was the stupidest thing I have read on this issue to date and seems like it should be on the onion. Is this like James Bond working on a bomb? Ok 90 seconds bag on floor, hold 3 seconds. Switch, hold 3 seconds switch, hold 3 seconds, switch, hold 4 seconds switch, oh darn gotta find the gauge this has too much air. God no, 44 left this whole thing is going to blow up in my face. Switch, hold, switch hold... ahhh i am not going to get the last ball! Ok 11 in 90, Move Move Move!

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

Mortenson was just on weei , some points he made

My reactions in parenthesis

- Colts didn't complain after the november game, waited until the day of AFC Championships.  Before games teams write down things for the refs to look out for (formations,substitutions, etc).

- He originally reported that 11 of 12 balls were 2 psi under, but it has since been reported that is not correct and that 10 of the balls were closer to 1 psi under

( very curious if the one 2psi under was the ball brought to the indy equipment guy)

- He kept asking why the colts balls were not under and the pats were . He says the colts like their balls at the lower end of the legal psi.

(I think you have to ask if the colts balls were filled out in the cold , while the pats were filled inside . Also do the colts keep their game balls near a heater or anything ? Do they rub the balls down that generates heat like the Pats say they did?)

A thought that just occurred to me: How do we know the Colts didn't mess with the ball that allegedly started this whole thing?

[Donoghus]

The bottom line is that it appears that the balls can pretty much be tracked from inspection to the game. Will the NFL will be trying to convince us that one dude was able to doctor 12 footballs in 90 seconds in a bathroom (for the record, that's 7.5 secs per ball, not accounting for taking them out of the zipper bag and putting them back in)?!

Apparently, at least one source is saying that that's actually plausible. 

So can 12 (or in this case 11) footballs be deflated in that amount of time?  One league source with extensive knowledge and experience in the NFL believes that 90 seconds provides enough time to do it — especially if the type of bag allowed the valves to be accessed without individually removing them.  (The bag in the photo, for example, has a large zipper that when open permits quick access to the balls.)

The source called it as “easy” thing to do. “Needle in each ball for a couple of seconds,” the source said.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/27/can-a-bag-of-footballs-be-deflated-in-90-seconds/

This is absurd at this point.

  All of those discussions assume that the balls were properly inflated (and measured to be properly inflated) to begin with. While I haven't followed the story as closely as many, unless the NFL has stated that the balls had their PSI measured with a gauge before the game, you can't assume that happened. It's much more likely the balls were never fully inflated than they were fully inflated and then deflated.

Bingo.  I don't think the referees ever used a gauge.  They probably felt them, gave the thumbs up, and went on their way. 

Wouldn't surprise me if the Pats had the balls inflated near the minimum to begin with.  The Colts, aware of this supposed sting/trap operation, had theirs inflated to or near the maximum allowance. 

[wayupnorth]

Very interesting article that certainly doesn't paint the Patriots in a very good light.

Makes it look like this isn't just an issue for this season.

http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blog/2015/the-new-england-patriots-mysteriously-became-fumble-proof-in-2007

[kraidstar]

If I was Kraft, I'd be peeved too.  That's multiple leaks that make his organization look bad.  Both, seemingly, coming from the NFL. 

That press conference certainly sounded like he was going all in that the Pats are innocent of any wrongdoing.  Awfully ballsy thing to do if you're lying.

Yeah, but people do it all the time (see Lance Armstrong, Roger Clemens, etc.).  Kraft didn't come off credible at all.  In fact no one has come off as credible for the Patriots.  (For the record, I am not a Patriots, Colts, or Seahawks fan so I could really care less about this from that perspective).

lance, roger, bonds etc were all taking major PEDs and never would have never been harassed for something as minor as this. some of those drugs lance was taking that increase blood oxygen levels are actually life-threatening, your body can overheat, causing death. bonds and clemens were so jacked up on steroids that their body types changed.
the ball pressure thing is more equivalent to if bonds had used illegal batting gloves or lance wore an illegal knee brace or something stupid like that. the league would tell them to stop doing it, the media would ignore it, and then it would be forgotten.
if this is the worst thing the patriots have (possibly) done, then that's pretty tame, the vikings and panthers were caught illegally tampering with balls this year and got no penalty, and the story didn't even really make the news. 

[Cman]

Very interesting article that certainly doesn't paint the Patriots in a very good light.

Makes it look like this isn't just an issue for this season.

http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blog/2015/the-new-england-patriots-mysteriously-became-fumble-proof-in-2007

Wouldn't a better statistic be receptions vs. targets?
The whole argument is that the ball is inflated (Rodgers) or deflated (Brady) because of QB preference for throwing the ball. This is the first I've seen about there being some preference on the part of the running back....

[danglertx]

Very interesting article that certainly doesn't paint the Patriots in a very good light.

Makes it look like this isn't just an issue for this season.

http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blog/2015/the-new-england-patriots-mysteriously-became-fumble-proof-in-2007

Wouldn't a better statistic be receptions vs. targets?
The whole argument is that the ball is inflated (Rodgers) or deflated (Brady) because of QB preference for throwing the ball. This is the first I've seen about there being some preference on the part of the running back....

Following that line of thought, shouldn't Green Bay and Rogers in particular lead the league in fumbling since whatever year we can put it to make it look like they do?

[Cman]

Very interesting article that certainly doesn't paint the Patriots in a very good light.

Makes it look like this isn't just an issue for this season.

http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blog/2015/the-new-england-patriots-mysteriously-became-fumble-proof-in-2007

Wouldn't a better statistic be receptions vs. targets?
The whole argument is that the ball is inflated (Rodgers) or deflated (Brady) because of QB preference for throwing the ball. This is the first I've seen about there being some preference on the part of the running back....

Following that line of thought, shouldn't Green Bay and Rogers in particular lead the league in fumbling since whatever year we can put it to make it look like they do?

Right. The ball in GB is overinflated, so it is harder to hold onto, so the RBs fumble more. Should be an outlier if the "theory" is correct.