#DeflateGate (Court of Appeals Reinstates Suspension)

[kozlodoev]

So, as part of the appeals process, Brady submits some emails completely unrelated to deflategate (in an effort to convince people he's trying to cooperate). Since they were made public (as the rest of the appeal was), he can now claim that he was right to not turn over texts because they'd obviously be leaked, and he was understandably worried that all of his personal (non deflate-gate related) texts, which the investigation *never asked to have* would also be leaked? I hope nobody's seeing anything else when they look at that.

The email release was ordered by Judge Berman, wasn't it?

[BudweiserCeltic]

So, as part of the appeals process, Brady submits some emails completely unrelated to deflategate (in an effort to convince people he's trying to cooperate). Since they were made public (as the rest of the appeal was), he can now claim that he was right to not turn over texts because they'd obviously be leaked, and he was understandably worried that all of his personal (non deflate-gate related) texts, which the investigation *never asked to have* would also be leaked? I hope nobody's seeing anything else when they look at that.

The email release was ordered by Judge Berman, wasn't it?

I'm pretty sure he's not allowing any evidence presented under seal, so yes. Which means, whether a leak or not, even through legal channels, private information would've made it's way to the public.

So even if you wanted to trust 100% the NFL and the NFLPA completely, if the disagreement came into a court battle, there's still a big chance your privacy wouldn't be protected. And that's a big IF initially.

[knuckleballer]

So, as part of the appeals process, Brady submits some emails completely unrelated to deflategate (in an effort to convince people he's trying to cooperate). Since they were made public (as the rest of the appeal was), he can now claim that he was right to not turn over texts because they'd obviously be leaked, and he was understandably worried that all of his personal (non deflate-gate related) texts, which the investigation *never asked to have* would also be leaked? I hope nobody's seeing anything else when they look at that.

The email release was ordered by Judge Berman, wasn't it?

I'm pretty sure he's not allowing any evidence presented under seal, so yes. Which means, whether a leak or not, even through legal channels, private information would've made it's way to the public.

So even if you wanted to trust 100% the NFL and the NFLPA completely, if the disagreement came into a court battle, there's still a big chance your privacy wouldn't be protected. And that's a big IF initially.

I'd also point out that those e-mails led to a front page story on the Daily Mail, which I believe is the most widely read tabloid world wide, calling him a diva.  Just a couple of days earlier, the Daily Mail had a front page story showing a close up of his wife's feet as she was dressed in a burqa in an attempt to hide from the paparazzi.  His privacy concerns are unique.  Much more so than any other NFL player.

[BballTim]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/07/opinions/dowd-nfl-brady-investigation/

  The nfl doesn't seem to be faring too well in this, but the author of the article seems pretty clueless. First of all, I'm not sure why so many people think "I don't need to personally examine your phone, I just want some data that's stored on it" means "go ahead and destroy the phone (and the data on it), I don't mind". I'd guess I shouldn't be surprised that many of those same people think that supplying someone with a list of who you sent texts to counts as fully cooperating with a request for the content of some texts.

  Also, while it's easy to buy Brady's claim that he'd have turned over his phone if he knew he might get punished if he didn't, and it's easy to believe that he wasn't going to turn over his texts and emails because of the precedent that it would set for other players, it's kind of a stretch to believe them both.

That may all be true from a theoretical standpoint, but if you are the disciplinarian in a case and don't clearly make your expectations clear, then you are to blame.

And I don't blame Brady for destroying his phone. Of the emails he released, several are already all over the Internet (the pool cover, messages about his oldest son, comments about Peyton). God know what would have come out about his personal life of the NFL (who already has leaked numerous things) had gotten hold of it.

  I think that would be a solid argument for not handing over his phone to let the investigators rummage through all of his personal texts and emails. They sought to alleviate those concerns by having Brady's team go through the data on the phone and only turn over the relevant texts, and they seemed to be pretty clear in what they were asking for.

That's not enough, as even the most limited scope of texts are susceptible to being leaked.

  Texts relevant to whether the balls were deflated are more susceptible to being part of the final report. The texts and emails that are related to Brady's personal life (i.e. what wasn't asked for) are what would be more likely to be "leaked".

I think you have a very limited imagination of the possibilities.

   I guess, if the thought is the league was going to leak texts they were never in possession of. Possibly unrelated, but I'm wondering why we're reading online about Brady's pool cover. Where did those texts come from? The league never had access to Brady's phone before he had it destroyed. Where did those texts come from?

Emails he made available for the Appeal process... you know after he was punished for an unprecedented 4 game suspension, which makes little to no sense EVEN if guilty.

  So, as part of the appeals process, Brady submits some emails completely unrelated to deflategate (in an effort to convince people he's trying to cooperate). Since they were made public (as the rest of the appeal was), he can now claim that he was right to not turn over texts because they'd obviously be leaked, and he was understandably worried that all of his personal (non deflate-gate related) texts, which the investigation *never asked to have* would also be leaked? I hope nobody's seeing anything else when they look at that.

You're more worried about optics I see.

He doesn't need to make that argument (and I haven't seen anywhere where he's done it either).

Also, not sure who made these emails available anyways... it might have not been him or his party. Could've been accounts from the Patriots organization rather a personal email, which makes things like expectation of privacy a bit different.

You seem more worried about proving a point of who believes that Brady did anything wrong here (which I don't care for at all), while I'm interested in what the NFL actually has a right to do under the agreed CBA.

   They seem to have the right to run an investigation, punish people they deem to be guilty of some offense, and also punish players who don't cooperate with the investigation.

[BballTim]

So, as part of the appeals process, Brady submits some emails completely unrelated to deflategate (in an effort to convince people he's trying to cooperate). Since they were made public (as the rest of the appeal was), he can now claim that he was right to not turn over texts because they'd obviously be leaked, and he was understandably worried that all of his personal (non deflate-gate related) texts, which the investigation *never asked to have* would also be leaked? I hope nobody's seeing anything else when they look at that.

The email release was ordered by Judge Berman, wasn't it?

  Possibly, but I from everything I heard, the investigation wasn't requesting emails related to pool covers.

[BudweiserCeltic]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/07/opinions/dowd-nfl-brady-investigation/

  The nfl doesn't seem to be faring too well in this, but the author of the article seems pretty clueless. First of all, I'm not sure why so many people think "I don't need to personally examine your phone, I just want some data that's stored on it" means "go ahead and destroy the phone (and the data on it), I don't mind". I'd guess I shouldn't be surprised that many of those same people think that supplying someone with a list of who you sent texts to counts as fully cooperating with a request for the content of some texts.

  Also, while it's easy to buy Brady's claim that he'd have turned over his phone if he knew he might get punished if he didn't, and it's easy to believe that he wasn't going to turn over his texts and emails because of the precedent that it would set for other players, it's kind of a stretch to believe them both.

That may all be true from a theoretical standpoint, but if you are the disciplinarian in a case and don't clearly make your expectations clear, then you are to blame.

And I don't blame Brady for destroying his phone. Of the emails he released, several are already all over the Internet (the pool cover, messages about his oldest son, comments about Peyton). God know what would have come out about his personal life of the NFL (who already has leaked numerous things) had gotten hold of it.

  I think that would be a solid argument for not handing over his phone to let the investigators rummage through all of his personal texts and emails. They sought to alleviate those concerns by having Brady's team go through the data on the phone and only turn over the relevant texts, and they seemed to be pretty clear in what they were asking for.

That's not enough, as even the most limited scope of texts are susceptible to being leaked.

  Texts relevant to whether the balls were deflated are more susceptible to being part of the final report. The texts and emails that are related to Brady's personal life (i.e. what wasn't asked for) are what would be more likely to be "leaked".

I think you have a very limited imagination of the possibilities.

   I guess, if the thought is the league was going to leak texts they were never in possession of. Possibly unrelated, but I'm wondering why we're reading online about Brady's pool cover. Where did those texts come from? The league never had access to Brady's phone before he had it destroyed. Where did those texts come from?

Emails he made available for the Appeal process... you know after he was punished for an unprecedented 4 game suspension, which makes little to no sense EVEN if guilty.

  So, as part of the appeals process, Brady submits some emails completely unrelated to deflategate (in an effort to convince people he's trying to cooperate). Since they were made public (as the rest of the appeal was), he can now claim that he was right to not turn over texts because they'd obviously be leaked, and he was understandably worried that all of his personal (non deflate-gate related) texts, which the investigation *never asked to have* would also be leaked? I hope nobody's seeing anything else when they look at that.

You're more worried about optics I see.

He doesn't need to make that argument (and I haven't seen anywhere where he's done it either).

Also, not sure who made these emails available anyways... it might have not been him or his party. Could've been accounts from the Patriots organization rather a personal email, which makes things like expectation of privacy a bit different.

You seem more worried about proving a point of who believes that Brady did anything wrong here (which I don't care for at all), while I'm interested in what the NFL actually has a right to do under the agreed CBA.

   They seem to have the right to run an investigation, punish people they deem to be guilty of some offense, and also punish players who don't cooperate with the investigation.

Generalizations do you no good here...

[BballTim]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/07/opinions/dowd-nfl-brady-investigation/

  The nfl doesn't seem to be faring too well in this, but the author of the article seems pretty clueless. First of all, I'm not sure why so many people think "I don't need to personally examine your phone, I just want some data that's stored on it" means "go ahead and destroy the phone (and the data on it), I don't mind". I'd guess I shouldn't be surprised that many of those same people think that supplying someone with a list of who you sent texts to counts as fully cooperating with a request for the content of some texts.

  Also, while it's easy to buy Brady's claim that he'd have turned over his phone if he knew he might get punished if he didn't, and it's easy to believe that he wasn't going to turn over his texts and emails because of the precedent that it would set for other players, it's kind of a stretch to believe them both.

That may all be true from a theoretical standpoint, but if you are the disciplinarian in a case and don't clearly make your expectations clear, then you are to blame.

And I don't blame Brady for destroying his phone. Of the emails he released, several are already all over the Internet (the pool cover, messages about his oldest son, comments about Peyton). God know what would have come out about his personal life of the NFL (who already has leaked numerous things) had gotten hold of it.

  I think that would be a solid argument for not handing over his phone to let the investigators rummage through all of his personal texts and emails. They sought to alleviate those concerns by having Brady's team go through the data on the phone and only turn over the relevant texts, and they seemed to be pretty clear in what they were asking for.

That's not enough, as even the most limited scope of texts are susceptible to being leaked.

  Texts relevant to whether the balls were deflated are more susceptible to being part of the final report. The texts and emails that are related to Brady's personal life (i.e. what wasn't asked for) are what would be more likely to be "leaked".

I think you have a very limited imagination of the possibilities.

   I guess, if the thought is the league was going to leak texts they were never in possession of. Possibly unrelated, but I'm wondering why we're reading online about Brady's pool cover. Where did those texts come from? The league never had access to Brady's phone before he had it destroyed. Where did those texts come from?

Emails he made available for the Appeal process... you know after he was punished for an unprecedented 4 game suspension, which makes little to no sense EVEN if guilty.

  So, as part of the appeals process, Brady submits some emails completely unrelated to deflategate (in an effort to convince people he's trying to cooperate). Since they were made public (as the rest of the appeal was), he can now claim that he was right to not turn over texts because they'd obviously be leaked, and he was understandably worried that all of his personal (non deflate-gate related) texts, which the investigation *never asked to have* would also be leaked? I hope nobody's seeing anything else when they look at that.

You're more worried about optics I see.

He doesn't need to make that argument (and I haven't seen anywhere where he's done it either).

Also, not sure who made these emails available anyways... it might have not been him or his party. Could've been accounts from the Patriots organization rather a personal email, which makes things like expectation of privacy a bit different.

You seem more worried about proving a point of who believes that Brady did anything wrong here (which I don't care for at all), while I'm interested in what the NFL actually has a right to do under the agreed CBA.

   They seem to have the right to run an investigation, punish people they deem to be guilty of some offense, and also punish players who don't cooperate with the investigation.

Generalizations do you no good here...

  Feel free to add specifics, it's your concerns about what the nfl has the right to do that we're discussing.

[BudweiserCeltic]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/07/opinions/dowd-nfl-brady-investigation/

  The nfl doesn't seem to be faring too well in this, but the author of the article seems pretty clueless. First of all, I'm not sure why so many people think "I don't need to personally examine your phone, I just want some data that's stored on it" means "go ahead and destroy the phone (and the data on it), I don't mind". I'd guess I shouldn't be surprised that many of those same people think that supplying someone with a list of who you sent texts to counts as fully cooperating with a request for the content of some texts.

  Also, while it's easy to buy Brady's claim that he'd have turned over his phone if he knew he might get punished if he didn't, and it's easy to believe that he wasn't going to turn over his texts and emails because of the precedent that it would set for other players, it's kind of a stretch to believe them both.

That may all be true from a theoretical standpoint, but if you are the disciplinarian in a case and don't clearly make your expectations clear, then you are to blame.

And I don't blame Brady for destroying his phone. Of the emails he released, several are already all over the Internet (the pool cover, messages about his oldest son, comments about Peyton). God know what would have come out about his personal life of the NFL (who already has leaked numerous things) had gotten hold of it.

  I think that would be a solid argument for not handing over his phone to let the investigators rummage through all of his personal texts and emails. They sought to alleviate those concerns by having Brady's team go through the data on the phone and only turn over the relevant texts, and they seemed to be pretty clear in what they were asking for.

That's not enough, as even the most limited scope of texts are susceptible to being leaked.

  Texts relevant to whether the balls were deflated are more susceptible to being part of the final report. The texts and emails that are related to Brady's personal life (i.e. what wasn't asked for) are what would be more likely to be "leaked".

I think you have a very limited imagination of the possibilities.

   I guess, if the thought is the league was going to leak texts they were never in possession of. Possibly unrelated, but I'm wondering why we're reading online about Brady's pool cover. Where did those texts come from? The league never had access to Brady's phone before he had it destroyed. Where did those texts come from?

Emails he made available for the Appeal process... you know after he was punished for an unprecedented 4 game suspension, which makes little to no sense EVEN if guilty.

  So, as part of the appeals process, Brady submits some emails completely unrelated to deflategate (in an effort to convince people he's trying to cooperate). Since they were made public (as the rest of the appeal was), he can now claim that he was right to not turn over texts because they'd obviously be leaked, and he was understandably worried that all of his personal (non deflate-gate related) texts, which the investigation *never asked to have* would also be leaked? I hope nobody's seeing anything else when they look at that.

You're more worried about optics I see.

He doesn't need to make that argument (and I haven't seen anywhere where he's done it either).

Also, not sure who made these emails available anyways... it might have not been him or his party. Could've been accounts from the Patriots organization rather a personal email, which makes things like expectation of privacy a bit different.

You seem more worried about proving a point of who believes that Brady did anything wrong here (which I don't care for at all), while I'm interested in what the NFL actually has a right to do under the agreed CBA.

   They seem to have the right to run an investigation, punish people they deem to be guilty of some offense, and also punish players who don't cooperate with the investigation.

Generalizations do you no good here...

  Feel free to add specifics, it's your concerns about what the nfl has the right to do that we're discussing.

The finer points have been discussed in 154 pages.

[BballTim]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/07/opinions/dowd-nfl-brady-investigation/

  The nfl doesn't seem to be faring too well in this, but the author of the article seems pretty clueless. First of all, I'm not sure why so many people think "I don't need to personally examine your phone, I just want some data that's stored on it" means "go ahead and destroy the phone (and the data on it), I don't mind". I'd guess I shouldn't be surprised that many of those same people think that supplying someone with a list of who you sent texts to counts as fully cooperating with a request for the content of some texts.

  Also, while it's easy to buy Brady's claim that he'd have turned over his phone if he knew he might get punished if he didn't, and it's easy to believe that he wasn't going to turn over his texts and emails because of the precedent that it would set for other players, it's kind of a stretch to believe them both.

That may all be true from a theoretical standpoint, but if you are the disciplinarian in a case and don't clearly make your expectations clear, then you are to blame.

And I don't blame Brady for destroying his phone. Of the emails he released, several are already all over the Internet (the pool cover, messages about his oldest son, comments about Peyton). God know what would have come out about his personal life of the NFL (who already has leaked numerous things) had gotten hold of it.

  I think that would be a solid argument for not handing over his phone to let the investigators rummage through all of his personal texts and emails. They sought to alleviate those concerns by having Brady's team go through the data on the phone and only turn over the relevant texts, and they seemed to be pretty clear in what they were asking for.

That's not enough, as even the most limited scope of texts are susceptible to being leaked.

  Texts relevant to whether the balls were deflated are more susceptible to being part of the final report. The texts and emails that are related to Brady's personal life (i.e. what wasn't asked for) are what would be more likely to be "leaked".

I think you have a very limited imagination of the possibilities.

   I guess, if the thought is the league was going to leak texts they were never in possession of. Possibly unrelated, but I'm wondering why we're reading online about Brady's pool cover. Where did those texts come from? The league never had access to Brady's phone before he had it destroyed. Where did those texts come from?

Emails he made available for the Appeal process... you know after he was punished for an unprecedented 4 game suspension, which makes little to no sense EVEN if guilty.

  So, as part of the appeals process, Brady submits some emails completely unrelated to deflategate (in an effort to convince people he's trying to cooperate). Since they were made public (as the rest of the appeal was), he can now claim that he was right to not turn over texts because they'd obviously be leaked, and he was understandably worried that all of his personal (non deflate-gate related) texts, which the investigation *never asked to have* would also be leaked? I hope nobody's seeing anything else when they look at that.

You're more worried about optics I see.

He doesn't need to make that argument (and I haven't seen anywhere where he's done it either).

Also, not sure who made these emails available anyways... it might have not been him or his party. Could've been accounts from the Patriots organization rather a personal email, which makes things like expectation of privacy a bit different.

You seem more worried about proving a point of who believes that Brady did anything wrong here (which I don't care for at all), while I'm interested in what the NFL actually has a right to do under the agreed CBA.

   They seem to have the right to run an investigation, punish people they deem to be guilty of some offense, and also punish players who don't cooperate with the investigation.

Generalizations do you no good here...

  Feel free to add specifics, it's your concerns about what the nfl has the right to do that we're discussing.

The finer points have been discussed in 154 pages.

  Right, I was just summing up the discussion. Technically just the last 15-20 pages but from what I've read that's probably close enough.

[steve]

Does the CBA have to specifically say, "NFL can't lie and manipulate the media during the investigation of a player"

If that's the case then why can't Roger hire a 3 year-old as lead investigator. Give him a crayon and have him write "gilty" on NFL letterhead. There's nothing in the CBA that specifically say's he can't.

[GratefulCs]

Does the CBA have to specifically say, "NFL can't lie and manipulate the media during the investigation of a player"

If that's the case then why can't Roger hire a 3 year-old as lead investigator. Give him a crayon and have him write "gilty" on NFL letterhead. There's nothing in the CBA that specifically say's he can't.

well, i'd imagine that if the 3 year old wrote"gilty" it wouldn't hold up in court

 

[Smokeeye123]

So, as part of the appeals process, Brady submits some emails completely unrelated to deflategate (in an effort to convince people he's trying to cooperate). Since they were made public (as the rest of the appeal was), he can now claim that he was right to not turn over texts because they'd obviously be leaked, and he was understandably worried that all of his personal (non deflate-gate related) texts, which the investigation *never asked to have* would also be leaked? I hope nobody's seeing anything else when they look at that.

The email release was ordered by Judge Berman, wasn't it?

Yeah but that didnt fit Tim's narrative.

But anyways I am so sick of this. Brady clearly had some level of guilt. But I still find the punishment imposed on the Patriots egregious. A first round pick when the Wells report specifically exonerates Kraft and Bellicheck? I get a 4 game Brady suspension but I dont get that.

[jambr380]

So, as part of the appeals process, Brady submits some emails completely unrelated to deflategate (in an effort to convince people he's trying to cooperate). Since they were made public (as the rest of the appeal was), he can now claim that he was right to not turn over texts because they'd obviously be leaked, and he was understandably worried that all of his personal (non deflate-gate related) texts, which the investigation *never asked to have* would also be leaked? I hope nobody's seeing anything else when they look at that.

The email release was ordered by Judge Berman, wasn't it?

Yeah but that didnt fit Tim's narrative.

But anyways I am so sick of this. Brady clearly had some level of guilt. But I still find the punishment imposed on the Patriots egregious. A first round pick when the Wells report specifically exonerates Kraft and Bellicheck? I get a 4 game Brady suspension but I dont get that.

You 'get' a 4 game Brady suspension? Really? Since no player has ever been suspended any games for such an action (which isn't proven at all - read knuckleballer's posts. He is really on the ball with his defensive stance), how can you advocate any punishment at all?

But, yes, we are in total agreement on the bs punishment levied to the Patriots.

[BballTim]

So, as part of the appeals process, Brady submits some emails completely unrelated to deflategate (in an effort to convince people he's trying to cooperate). Since they were made public (as the rest of the appeal was), he can now claim that he was right to not turn over texts because they'd obviously be leaked, and he was understandably worried that all of his personal (non deflate-gate related) texts, which the investigation *never asked to have* would also be leaked? I hope nobody's seeing anything else when they look at that.

The email release was ordered by Judge Berman, wasn't it?

Yeah but that didnt fit Tim's narrative.

But anyways I am so sick of this. Brady clearly had some level of guilt. But I still find the punishment imposed on the Patriots egregious. A first round pick when the Wells report specifically exonerates Kraft and Bellicheck? I get a 4 game Brady suspension but I dont get that.

  I don't really see what his comment (or yours) have to do with the part of my post that was bolded. Why would Brady turn over texts about a pool cover in response to a request for texts related to deflate-gate? Why would anyone consider that to be cooperation?

[knuckleballer]

So, as part of the appeals process, Brady submits some emails completely unrelated to deflategate (in an effort to convince people he's trying to cooperate). Since they were made public (as the rest of the appeal was), he can now claim that he was right to not turn over texts because they'd obviously be leaked, and he was understandably worried that all of his personal (non deflate-gate related) texts, which the investigation *never asked to have* would also be leaked? I hope nobody's seeing anything else when they look at that.

The email release was ordered by Judge Berman, wasn't it?

Yeah but that didnt fit Tim's narrative.

But anyways I am so sick of this. Brady clearly had some level of guilt. But I still find the punishment imposed on the Patriots egregious. A first round pick when the Wells report specifically exonerates Kraft and Bellicheck? I get a 4 game Brady suspension but I dont get that.

  I don't really see what his comment (or yours) have to do with the part of my post that was bolded. Why would Brady turn over texts about a pool cover in response to a request for texts related to deflate-gate? Why would anyone consider that to be cooperation?

"To try and reconcile the record and fully cooperate with the investigation after I was disciplined in May, we turned over detailed pages of cell phone records and all of the emails that Mr. Wells requested,” Brady wrote. “We even contacted the phone company to see if there was any possible way we could retrieve any/all of the actual text messages from my old phone. In short, we exhausted every possibility to give the NFL everything we could and offered to go thru the identity for every text and phone call during the relevant time. Regardless, the NFL knows that Mr. Wells already had ALL relevant communications with Patriots personnel that either Mr. Wells saw or that I was questioned about in my appeal hearing.”   http://larrybrownsports.com/football/tom-brady-turned-over-emails-cell-phone-records/268756



"On June 3 his forensic examiner catalogued all 5,317 emails Brady sent or received between Sept. 1, 2014 and March 1, 2015. These emails were searched for the following terms:

k-ball, kball, gage, air-pump, airpump, needle, pin, PSI, pounds per square inch, 12.5, bladder, McNally, Bird, 1 pound, 1 lb, one pound, one lb, 2 pound, 2 lb, two pound, two lb, gaug* [the * means that all variations of “gaug” were included, such as gauge, gauging, gauged etc.], pump*, inflat*, deflat*, (game OR kick*) ball ~2 [this means Brady’s emails were searched to see whether the words “game” or “kick*” were found within two words of “ball”], (prep* OR rub*) AND (ball OR football) ~10, (investigat* OR meet* OR discuss* OR question) AND (championship OR Jan* 18 OR 1/18), investigat* AND (ball OR football OR Ind* OR Colts) ~10, (equilib* OR atmosphere* OR climat* OR environment* OR test* OR experiment) AND (ball OR football) ~10".  http://deadspin.com/the-full-story-of-tom-bradys-destroyed-cell-phone-1722190784


pump* is in the pool cover e-mail